No healer dps balance at all?

[laplacedemon]

There's a small nerf on PTR:

Holy Shock: Blasts the target with Holy energy, causing (350%280% of Spell power) Holy damage to an enemy, or (400% of Spell power) healing to an ally.

[Deleted]

i like that disc priest is supposed to be a healer dps hybrid but it is just meh

[danieltang34]

There's a small nerf on PTR:

Holy Shock: Blasts the target with Holy energy, causing (350%280% of Spell power) Holy damage to an enemy, or (400% of Spell power) healing to an ally.

Lol about time, theyre making this change just a few hours after i made this post
The nerf doesnt seem to be enough tho, halving holy shock damage sounds about right, but anyways definitely a welcomed change

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Paladins are currently Blizzard's favorite right now. All 3 of their specs are not only viable, but in the top 3 of their respective roles. HPallies are top 3 in healers for PvP and PvE, Rets are at the top of the melee DPS in raids and Prot tanks are ranked second behind G Dru in 7.1.5 after the Prot War nerfs and are still number one in tank damage.

Basically ALL 3 Paladin specs are number 1 in damage in their roles as well.


Paladins are sitting pretty right now. If you want a guaranteed raid spot without getting sat out, go Paladin.

i agree with pretty much all this, except ret is just T1 in damage instead of number 1

[Deleted]

HPalas are broken and OP again? Oh wow, I'm so surprised. This has literally never happened. Ever.
(Yes, it's annoying)

[Deleted]

When a healer can go 100% DPS mode on a fight, then you're better off bringing another DPS.

Disc thrashes every other Healer on every fight in the DPS department because it is an actual part of their healing "rotation". DPS of the other specs is largely irrelevant as it's more of a second priority after using actual healing skills.

As such, Healer DPS is irrelevant. It's only a factor when healing is too easy.

[Morgan Pain]

What id like Blizzard to fix is the totally lame dps and dps synergi for holy priest.
We have 3 singletarget abillities with zero synergi between them and one AOE. first of all - extremly boring.
And If i really put my back into it , and get lucky with crits i ca maybe do 165 k dps on a mob and maybe 225 k dps on a pack of 4-5.

The really really stupid issue is that we actually strugle with healing ourself when doing world content because we have no automated selfheals baked into the dps, so if we start healing the mobs dont die. This is also a huge problem in world pvp because most dpsclasses actually outheal holy priest one on one, and with the extremly crappy dps all you can do is run like hell hoping that the attacker gets bored chasing you.

Its totally impossible to ever win one on one as holy priest - against any class.

[Deleted]

Blizzard should make all healing spec damaging abilities non-working in instanced content if they can't balance it properly (Except for disc)

[Deleted]

Blizzard should make all healing spec damaging abilities non-working in instanced content if they can't balance it properly (Except for disc)

It's a complete non-issue:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...#class=Healers
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...#class=Healers

Cycle through whatever boss you fancy. Healer damage potential imbalance is only a thing on farm content, thus making it absolutely and completely irrelevant. Disc Priests are the only healers that bring a non-negligible amount of damage that doesn't impact their healing output.

This is a typical junk thread when a tier is generally on farm, complete with made-up statistics in the OP and widespread misrepresentation of actual data.

[Deleted]

It's a complete non-issue:

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...#class=Healers
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...#class=Healers

Cycle through whatever boss you fancy. Healer damage potential imbalance is only a thing on farm content, thus making it absolutely and completely irrelevant. Disc Priests are the only healers that bring a non-negligible amount of damage that doesn't impact their healing output.

This is a typical junk thread when a tier is generally on farm, complete with made-up statistics in the OP and widespread misrepresentation of actual data.

It's definately an issue in m+ content.

[Deleted]

It's definately an issue in m+ content.

The premise of this thread was healer damage in a raiding environment.

Even taking M+ (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount), Disc outperforms Holy Paladin in every comparison I made (picked a few random levels) and Holy Paladins are structurally outparsed in terms of M+ participation (especially at higher levels) by Resto Druids, who rank 4th to 5th in terms of Healer damage.

This with the assumption that high M+ healer representation is an indicator of their viability.

For lower M+ runs Holy Paladins approach Disc Priests in DPS, but in terms of parses they are below Resto Druids and on par with Resto Shamans and even Holy Priests.

There is no clear data-based indicator that Healer DPS is breaking the state and viability of low damage Healers, when those low damage Healers are actually represented significantly better than high damage Healers.

Again: Healer DPS imbalance is only an issue on easy/farm content and in PvP.

[Deleted]

The premise of this thread was healer damage in a raiding environment.

Even taking M+ (https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statist...gregate=amount), Disc outperforms Holy Paladin in every comparison I made (picked a few random levels) and Holy Paladins are structurally outparsed in terms of M+ participation (especially at higher levels) by Resto Druids, who rank 4th to 5th in terms of Healer damage.

This with the assumption that high M+ healer representation is an indicator of their viability.

Even resto druids almost double the amount of dps compared to monks for instance.

[Deleted]

Even resto druids almost double the amount of dps compared to monks for instance.

And half that (or even more) compared to Disc Priests and Holy Paladins, yet they don't suffer in terms of viability and are actually considered the most potent healer.

You're picking apart Healer balance based on damage potential when other factors drive the imbalance/Healer meta.

[Deleted]

And half that (or even more) compared to Disc Priests and Holy Paladins, yet they don't suffer in terms of viability and are actually considered the most potent healer.

You're picking apart Healer balance based on damage potential when other factors drive the imbalance/Healer meta.

I ain't saying it's the most important issue in the world but it seems like a stupid issue to even exist. It should be fairly easy for blizz to just nerf or buff the few damaging abilities of healers to make them more equal. DPS balancing for DPS-classes is difficult but my holy priest has 3 damaging abilites, how hard can it be to increase the damage of smite by 200% and do the same for monks and shamans to bring them to level with other healers or nerf down the others.

[Deleted]

Hpala is the real outliner here, while leveling he outperformes even ret since you have a little downtime between mobs anyway.
His damage has been op ever since the prepatch, I actually don't know why they did not nerf it until now.
The other healers are quite close together.

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Holy pala prob the best atm

[Doffen]

Lol about time, theyre making this change just a few hours after i made this post
The nerf doesnt seem to be enough tho, halving holy shock damage sounds about right, but anyways definitely a welcomed change

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i agree with pretty much all this, except ret is just T1 in damage instead of number 1

So you are happy about other healers trivial damage output gets nerfed? How does that affect you in any way? Not saying the nerf isn't justified, its still going to be good and thats actually cool, and we will still outdps your healer whatever it is. The utility of a resto shaman is most sought after in m+, or the godlike resto druid healing in both m+ and raiding is still trumphing any other healer-spec. I guess you'll be happy when they nerf those as well?

[TEHPALLYTANK]

Hpala is the real outliner here, while leveling he outperformes even ret since you have a little downtime between mobs anyway.
His damage has been op ever since the prepatch, I actually don't know why they did not nerf it until now.
The other healers are quite close together.

And prot is better than either of them at leveling, as it has 0 downtime and can easily handle mass pulls without risk of death. Now at max level, holy is awful compared to both Ret and Prot when it comes to questing.

(Fighter Chow also practically eliminates downtime for any spec, and is usable from lvl 101, so you're better off carrying some around than leveling in a healing spec).

[mmolurker]

why are dps important for healers? in progression, you think healers are gonna go up to the boss and dps?

[Deleted]

why are dps important for healers? in progression, you think healers are gonna go up to the boss and dps?

It isn't. Healer damage is only a relevant point of discussion if:
A) it outperforms DPS specs (which is ridiculous of course).
B) if damage is linked to healing directly (Disc) and the combined HPS and DPS numbers lead to a massive competitive advantage that 1 spec makes all other specs irrelevant. This is not the case as the most popular healer for PvE content now is the Resto Druid, while Shamans are doing quite well and Holy Priests are represented decently in lower M+ brackets (where Healers should have more room to DPS due to lower difficulty).

Any other cases are a side remark. It doesn't matter that Holy Paladins have higher DPS output than others because their DPS is not a massive contributor to their healing, it's only a limited part of it. Holy Paladins dishing out tons of DPS means, in general, that they aren't healing, meaning you are overgearing the content or it's too easy.

There is no factual, data-based, argument that the differences in Healer DPS lead to a critical issue related to actual Healer performance in M+ or raids (I can't talk about PvP since I'm not too experienced in it).
Yes, Holy Paladins are the best at world quests, but if you're not speccing to the much more capable DPS/Tank specs for each class then you're knowingly gimping yourself, which doesn't warrant game design changes.

[brghost]

Yesterday i had a resto druid bitching about low DPS (400k in mythic 6) arms warrior, while dealing 0 DPS. I mean, he was so concerned about our speed that he couldn't even throw a moonfire or something at mobs while just standing there and not healing because majority of damage is avoidable. When i've pointed it out he started yelling at me that resto druids can't DPS and it's not their job, their job is to heal.

Your healing class doing less DPS than other healers doesn't justify you just standing around and doing nothing.

Do you come from or have been playing FFXIV? There is a concept of "off-DPSing" which the community have been trying to implement for years.

"If you are not healing, then cast something else".

Unfortunately this isn't something that I can see coming soon to WoW until addons like Skada, Recount or Details! start showing healing and overhealing together in one bar (correct me if I am mistaken) and the community starts worrying about overhealing.
Of course there are classes like Resto Shaman/Druid where they are encouraged to maintain their HoTs if they are doing nothing, which is something I never liked but there are many options if you don't like this kind of playstyle.

TL;DR: I like the idea of healers focusing on off-DPSing when healing is not necessary instead of spamming HoTs and Heals.

[Axelond]

Over 2-3 minutes single target boss fight all healers actually do very similar dps if they commit 100%. The imbalance comes from AoE capability or burst. I don't think anyone cares about dps in raids but for mythic+ having a druid or mw being able to burst 2 million on a aoe pack is very helpful. Then you have Hpala and Resto shamans that if they try really hard can do 300k consistent AoE.

Paladins are also insane because they can burst and do insane damage for 25 sec then go back to healing full time, when cds come back up they go burst again and they will do about as good as resto shaman dpsing full time.

Paladins do sacrifice a lot. They can't just do 500k burst and then rest of the fight they are a normal healer like Druids and MW's can (while they burst less). Paladins need suboptimal healing talents and they need to commit all their healing output cooldowns on the pull. It's like if monk healers could revival on pull for an extra 100k dps on the burst. It's a big trade off and if you sacrifice so much of your healing potential you should be able to do decent damage. Maybe it's a little but too high atm and it's getting nerfed.

The AoE dps is really imbalanced between healers. Druids and Monks are way to powerful when they have uncapped targets AoE while other healers do the same aoe dps on 3 targets and 20 targets.

So even if all healers do kinda the same dps over a long fight for mythic+ being able to AoE down a huge pack or pop everything and burst a boss skews the dps a lot. The other healers who are kinda inbetween are just way worse if you don't really need a lot of healing when you are farming 4-7's.