Too much loot being thrown around these days?

[Ebalina]

I agree about the loot being handed out like candy.

Dump legendaries.

Put epics only in raids with a few rare world drops.

Make blues rare again and also bring back dungeon sets.

The above will make greens desirable to keep and equip again.

Make craftable gear useful again... with every crafting profession able to craft one or two BiS pre-raid item but make it take time to gather mats.


Make gear qualities mean something again.

Sure bis items taking mats from 2nd tier of the expansion.
Lul ............. are you for real?

No one wants to play a game with million people and have to wait months to get an item.

[Felfaadaern Darkterror]

Orange is the new Purple.

[kary]

Loot tables are larger then ever with relics...

It was a bad design choice made in what I see as desperation. For years they tried chasing the casual player and now that they have them they realize that they can never keep them entertained. I suspect a lot of legions grinds are a last ditch effort to keep the casuals they traded their dedicated players for over the years.

Nythendra has 14 items on her loot table
Compare her to any boss in HFC.
Not to mention that there's a lot more shared/usable loot due to the relic system. And the fact that you don't need int/agil/str specific drops (weaps/cloaks/rings). Yes you could argue that relics fall in the same category as weapons, but relics are generally easier to distribute than weapons, since way more people share relics than they did weapons.

If you compare Nythendra, again, to hellfire assault, you can see that, straight up you have a shield, a dagger, and a gun, items that have a very narrow distribution.
Nythendra has 4 relics, way more classes can get an upgrade off nythendra than they could off hellfire assault.

Smaller/larger may not have been the right words to use, but loot right now is far easier to distribute. Way less wasted items.

[Osmeric]

Loot tables are larger then ever with relics...

It was a bad design choice made in what I see as desperation. For years they tried chasing the casual player and now that they have them they realize that they can never keep them entertained. I suspect a lot of legions grinds are a last ditch effort to keep the casuals they traded their dedicated players for over the years.

Not really a bad design choice, since they have no alternative to chasing casuals. There aren't enough of what you would call non-casuals to sustain the game in anything like the state (and cashflow) it had.

[primalmatter]

Not really a bad design choice, since they have no alternative to chasing casuals. There aren't enough of what you would call non-casuals to sustain the game in anything like the state (and cashflow) it had.

That is the problem there never ever will be.

They want content they can't lose at that always rewards yet they find things like dailies tedious. You can never satisfy them and after years of catering to them... well blozz has the player base they earned.

They are stuck between a rock and a hard place. The old style of player that enjoys a deep and rich linear game will be slow in coming back if they ever do. The current casual crowd subs for three weeks then leaves.

They are burning the candle at both ends trying to hold it together.

[Jtbrig7390]

I think it's on purpose. Blizzard want you logging in and staying subbed so that you keep trying to get the loot that is actually decent.

Bingo...

Its the same system games like Borderlands/Diablo and so on use and guess what....

IT WORKS.

Just wish it was Reaper of Souls loot and not Classic Diablo.

[Granyala]

The old style of player that enjoys a deep and rich linear game will be slow in coming back if they ever do. The current casual crowd subs for three weeks then leaves.

Most of them old players are grown ups now and have other stuff to do than cater to agonizingly slow progression of virtual characters.
The young gamers of today... well... they are a different breed. Grown up on "fastfood" smartphone games and instant gratification etc.
I doubt that a game like vanilla wow or TBC wow could ensnare them as it did us back in the day.

Wildstar and many other "failed" MMOs have proven that quite effectively.

[primalmatter]

Most of them old players are grown ups now and have other stuff to do than cater to agonizingly slow progression of virtual characters.
The young gamers of today... well... they are a different breed. Grown up on "fastfood" smartphone games and instant gratification etc.
I doubt that a game like vanilla wow or TBC wow could ensnare them as it did us back in the day.

Wildstar and many other "failed" MMOs have proven that quite effectively.

I honestly don't know. Wildstar was a vastly different game then WoW at launch. It resembled a hybrid between Korean grind mmos and western ones. If its own marketing wasn't so effective I don't think it would of ever really been compared to wow beyond "its a mmo"

Hell Legion's artifact weapon is a ripoff of the skill points you had to grind out in wildstar at max level... If anything Wildstar should be a warning to WoW of what not to copy.

[Granyala]

Well, the actual AP "grind" is rather leightweight until you reach Lv 35.
I think 35-54 is Blizzards Legion version of "nerf raids over time via item upgrades", so progress is meant to be slow.

But Wildstar felt a lot like the old wow. Dangerous quest mobs, hard dungeons, harsh prequests, slow progression.

[Teri]

So I keep seeing some people say that no world quest loot apparently is allowed to be over 850 cause a normal raid is at that level. Sure I agree for 7.1

Now my view on 7.1.5 and upcoming weeks.

EN and nighthold arent the same tier imo, EN+ ToV = 10 boss, NH another 10 bosses 15-25 itemlevels higher.

Crafting is going up to 865, so still far higher then normal EN. Karazhan was already higher as well.

Random BG already give 855, but it's sort of limited style of gear, 1 stat is always versatility and super random to aquire the piece you need.

LFR will drop 855-865 in LFR, including tons of different trinkets, get used to it. Sure it will take about a month before LFR gul'dan from now but it will happen

Again wouldn't surpise me if they raise WQ loot to 850 or 855, the pvp tower quests already give 855 relics sometimes (season 2 pvp item pool but still it's 855)

My only main argument against raising WQ ilevel in 7.1.5 is that normal mythic 5 mans would feel really low at 840 then.

Still, those itemlevels listed here are still far below mythic raids or even warforge/titanforge heroic raids which all will be 900++, also there will be some stat tuning changes in 7.1.5 that will favor higher itemlevels more.

[DrStiglit]

It's not about the "epic" status of the loot. It's just the sheer volume of loot that is cycled through daily. Do we really need to be showered with all of this loot every day when 95% of it is garbage? I'd rather see loot less often but actually be decent.

Where else are we gonna get enchanting mats?

[primalmatter]

Casuals have always been the majority of the player base. I think the game would have died a long time ago if it wasn't for things like LFR and daily quests.

- - - Updated - - -



Sounds like a bunch of feels with no actual knowledge of their player base. I guarantee you they know more than you think.

Your claims seem odd considering it was when they made the game more catering to casuals and less linear the decline started...

[deadmanfred]

It was a very satisfying feeling to get your bis "pre raid" from dungeons and not need to run them anymore, except with friends. I feel that needing to help friends was a much larger drive to play the game then what it is now.

I think the WF/TF system is also garbage. Yes it feels great to pull a raid level piece from a heroic dungeon, but then every piece afterwards is a huge let down if it doesn't proc as high. Also if your trying to be hardcore and competitive and some else is beating you because they have the right legendary or a super titanforged trikent is very disheartening. Knowing that no matter what your progression is, no matter what your personal skill level is, you just can't compete and the frustration is unreal.

[primalmatter]

Well, the actual AP "grind" is rather leightweight until you reach Lv 35.
I think 35-54 is Blizzards Legion version of "nerf raids over time via item upgrades", so progress is meant to be slow.

But Wildstar felt a lot like the old wow. Dangerous quest mobs, hard dungeons, harsh prequests, slow progression.

That isn't the old wow though. that is the romanced version of old wow players talk about who never played old wow. Yes packs of mobs were dangerous and leveling took time.. but old wow didn't really have slow progression at end game till pretty deep into raiding. How well you played factored into how far you got.

As for artifacts... I had to take a three month training course for work in a area without anything but cell phone internet. That ap grind doesn't feel like nothing to me when im asked to compete with people. Its a flimsy disguised time gate.

I'm not trying to shit on legion content wise I love the damn thing but its reward structure and game systems seem to be choking it. Legendary items suck. Titanforge is a mixed bag really depends on how much you like lol random in your difficulty vs rewards. Artifacts... Well its a good concept even if it is just a grind I think you could make something great out of it with a little more work.

I just wish legion launched with the same content but a reward and progression structure similar to tbc honestly.

[primalmatter]

I never said it stopped the loss of players. I said it preventing the game from dying faster. As in, it slowed down the rate at which players were leaving. There has been a huge increase in the number of video games hitting the market in the last five years. They're also far more accessible thanks to being able to download them whenever you want. There are far more factors at work with WoW losing subs than the game simply losing appeal. They simply just have far more competition with the thousands of other games out there. It's not like they're even close to struggling anyway. They'll probably be around as long as they have a few hundred thousand subs. I'm not sure if they would ever go completely free to play, but even then they could last a few years still making profit from just in game services and xpacs.

There were nearly as many mmos and games out during tbc. This hasn't changed. The game simply shifted away from what made it stand out in order to try and appeal to the masses. I don't even know if people would come back if they changed it at this point.

[Phantombeard]

Everyone here that plays the game and there 30+ years of age. I'm guessing we feel asleep in a world that made sense and woke up to the world we now know as "entitlement". Go ahead and try to take away the childrens shinnies and next thing you know you'll be hanging on a cross in front of blizzard headquarters with the ringing in your ear "crucify him". Try and see.

[xuros]

I fully agree. Epics shouldnt come from wqs at all besides the dungeon wqs.

Who gives a fuck about this shit? Really? WQ epics are shit low and helps alts get into heroics. Its not going to make any difference come tuesday week after next when us raiders hit Nighthold. I just dont get why people have to bitch about every aspect of the game. How about they keep the ilvl on purples and just turn the color green? There no more epic problems!

[Teri]

Who gives a fuck about this shit? Really? WQ epics are shit low and helps alts get into heroics. Its not going to make any difference come tuesday week after next when us raiders hit Nighthold. I just dont get why people have to bitch about every aspect of the game. How about they keep the ilvl on purples and just turn the color green? There no more epic problems!

Exactly, 45-50 itemlevels lower then the best gear is an enormous main stat and stamina difference.

Maybe they need to change itemcolors based on current raid tier mythic raid epic, heroic raid blue, and anything under green, and people would see the difference better.

So for nighthold that would mean ilevel 900-910+ epic 885-899 blue and anything below green.

[cparle87]

Well, the actual AP "grind" is rather leightweight until you reach Lv 35.
I think 35-54 is Blizzards Legion version of "nerf raids over time via item upgrades", so progress is meant to be slow.

But Wildstar felt a lot like the old wow. Dangerous quest mobs, hard dungeons, harsh prequests, slow progression.

I always saw 35-54 as the "end of the expansion small grind for small increases so you still have something to do" a la the +3 upgrades to your rings in HFC and the valor upgraded they added in SoO then added more levels later.

[Varlak]

I agree about the loot being handed out like candy.

Dump legendaries.

Put epics only in raids with a few rare world drops.

Make blues rare again and also bring back dungeon sets.

The above will make greens desirable to keep and equip again.

Make craftable gear useful again... with every crafting profession able to craft one or two BiS pre-raid item but make it take time to gather mats.


Make gear qualities mean something again.

And then the first content patch come and everyting become purple again since by WoW designe every tier up 30-40ilvl.

Color mean barely anything thats why we get the item ilvl info.