Galakrond vs Lich King

[sam86]

Galakrond isn't show to be genius, in fact he is barely smart enough to do basic stuff
Arthas can beat him, and a whole bunch of many other lore figures, Galakrond may be powerful, but he surely lacks the brain to compete with many others

[MikeBogina]

The Lich King is the Helm of Domination, it's power is domination over undead, so it's safe to say that the Lich King would be able to take control of the Galakrond if he was undead. If he wasn't, the Scourge would take him easily.

1v1, Arthas has killed dragons before becoming the Lich King, even before becoming a Death Knight. I imagine him now a being of immense power would help him bring down Galakrond one of the stupidest gluttons in Warcraft history.

[Qualia]

The Lich King is the Helm of Domination, it's power is domination over undead, so it's safe to say that the Lich King would be able to take control of the Galakrond if he was undead. If he wasn't, the Scourge would take him easily.

1v1, Arthas has killed dragons before becoming the Lich King, even before becoming a Death Knight. I imagine him now a being of immense power would help him bring down Galakrond one of the stupidest gluttons in Warcraft history.

While Helm of Dominion does have the power to control Undead, as I and others stated before, clearly its power isn't absolute. Sylvanas, the Forsaken (both the ones turned undead by LK / Arthas and the ones turned by Sylvanas & her followers), the Ebon Blade - all were able to break out of his control - ok, to be fair, Lich King was weakened at that point, but he never managed to regain control over them. Even Trag Highmountain (a normal tauren turned Undead by the Orb of Ner'zhul) was able to resist Lich King's orders from afar, break free of Lich King's control at point blank and attacked him. With that said, I pretty much doubt the extend Lich King's power over undeaths not raised / controlled by him or his followers. Would he be able to take control of something as powerful as Galakrond if he couldn't even manage to maintain control on a Tauren?

Additionally, Galakrond is much more powerful than normal dragons or wyrm so Arthas killing Sindragosa doesn't really mean much. How would Arthas bring Galakrond down? Tyr - someone who should be more powerful than Arthas (judging by scaling, seeing that Lei Shen is more powerful than Arthas) - only managed to damage Galakrond to some extends, but not any significant wound. What would Arthas do in a 1v1? He isn't as fast and as maneuverable as the dragons / drakes / Aspects before they became Aspects, so I don't think he can dodge all the strikes / breath that easily. He can't deal enough damage to bring Galakrond down quickly and he - as far as I know - isn't powerful enough to pull the Aspects' trick (breaking mountain top and shoving it inside Galakrond's maw) either. It's true that Galakrond is pretty stupid, but that wouldn't matter if the opponent can't take advantage of it (especially in a 1v1 scenario of the OP).

[Magical Mudcrab]

Fury of Frostmourne isn't an instant kill spell, it just deal a massive amount of damage. If it can't kill Lei Shen, I'm not too sure how it'd work on Galakrond who should be a lot more durable (not necessarily more powerful, though). Arthas doesn't really have any instant kill that works on everything.

Fury of Frostmourne doing damage has nothing to do with whether or not it is an "instant kill" ability in the Lore any more than Avenging Wrath giving 20% damage bonus is canon. The massive damage was made to give the Lich King a wow factor that no boss had before him.

That aside, I've always been a little dubious of the claim that the Lich King could not kill Lei Shen. I'm aware as to the root of the claim -- a developer on twitter said as much -- however, the problem comes in where it's a little inconsistent with what has happened to the heroes of Azeroth who have faced both the Thunder King and the Lich King. Whereas the heroes of Azeroth were able to handily defeat the former within a gigantic Mogu palace, in a room built to specifically cater to the Thunder King's abilities; a room that would actively attack and summon elemental-like beings to attack the heroes. However, these same heroes were unable to best the Lich King.

Regarding Galakrond, of course the Lich King couldn't defeat it alone. Perhaps with the might of the Undead Dragonflight he sought to create, or even with the Scourge forces as-is, but certainly not alone.

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While Helm of Dominion does have the power to control Undead, as I and others stated before, clearly its power isn't absolute. Sylvanas, the Forsaken (both the ones turned undead by LK / Arthas and the ones turned by Sylvanas & her followers), the Ebon Blade - all were able to break out of his control - ok, to be fair, Lich King was weakened at that point, but he never managed to regain control over them. Even Trag Highmountain (a normal tauren turned Undead by the Orb of Ner'zhul) was able to resist Lich King's orders from afar, break free of Lich King's control at point blank and attacked him. With that said, I pretty much doubt the extend Lich King's power over undeaths not raised / controlled by him or his followers. Would he be able to take control of something as powerful as Galakrond if he couldn't even manage to maintain control on a Tauren?

The power isn't absolute; however, it does end up causing the individual who dons the helm to become one of the - if not the - most psychically powerful beings on Azeroth.

How would Arthas bring Galakrond down? Tyr - someone who should be more powerful than Arthas (judging by scaling, seeing that Lei Shen is more powerful than Arthas) - only managed to damage Galakrond to some extends, but not any significant wound.

Arguably, the Lich King could employ the plague of undeath that I believe once originated from the Lich King Ner'zhul to kill Galakrond. It might not be the epic 1v1 that people might want to imagine, but I don't think there's any other way the Lich King could hope to defeat Galakrond alone.

It's true that Galakrond is pretty stupid, but that wouldn't matter if the opponent can't take advantage of it (especially in a 1v1 scenario of the OP).

Galakrond's simplicity could be an advantage that the Lich King could exploit. The Lich King's control over the dead seems to depend on the individual's will to resist. It's not that the Lich King cannot take control over people like Sylvanas or the Death Knights, but it would likely need to be a gradual change, similarly to how Ner'zhul whispered to Arthas through Frostmourne, or how the Old Gods spoke to Neltharion through his connection to Azeroth. Something that comes to mind here is the vision of Arthas that is seen in the Death Knight story, where there's a brief glimpse of Arthas who questions the player as to whether or not their will is still their own.

[Deleted]

Galakrond for sure

[Sigxy]

That aside, I've always been a little dubious of the claim that the Lich King could not kill Lei Shen. I'm aware as to the root of the claim -- a developer on twitter said as much -- however, the problem comes in where it's a little inconsistent with what has happened to the heroes of Azeroth who have faced both the Thunder King and the Lich King. Whereas the heroes of Azeroth were able to handily defeat the former within a gigantic Mogu palace, in a room built to specifically cater to the Thunder King's abilities; a room that would actively attack and summon elemental-like beings to attack the heroes. However, these same heroes were unable to best the Lich King.

I keep bringing that last bit up a lot of times. Sure, Arthas may not be the most powerful enemy ever - but he was still "our" biggest challenge. No other boss after Arthas has used an ability to kill us all in one spell - in fact, is there even any boss we had to RUN AWAY from the ENTIRE TIME?

But yeah, as some people point out - 1vs1, it would probably be Galakrond if it's a straight on fight. (Unless like someone linked, he gets eaten -then he just cuts himself out), but if there were preparations made, I think the Lich King could stand a bigger chance since he's more tactical. And also: The Scourge is part of his power, so it would need to be counted in. So just toss in a lot of frost drakes and start chewing that thing apart. Or plague it.

[Qualia]

Fury of Frostmourne doing damage has nothing to do with whether or not it is an "instant kill" ability in the Lore any more than Avenging Wrath giving 20% damage bonus is canon. The massive damage was made to give the Lich King a wow factor that no boss had before him.

Then the question is, how would we know if it was supposed to be an instant kill and not just Lich King unleashing a massive amount of damage? We getting killed isn't an indicator that it's an instant kill - getting hit by Deathwing's Cataclysm would kill us instantly as well, but it was just a spell that does massive amount of damage covering the entire planet. It's not like Blizzard didn't have an instant kill effect when they designed Fury of Frostmourne - they had it and they used it on some spells, with tooltips stating that those spell kill instantly to boost. If they didn't put that effect on Fury of Frostmourne, should we really believe that it's supposed to be an instant kill? Even the spell's tooltip didn't say anything about killing us instantly ("Deals 900000 Shadow damage to all enemies and rendering them unable to release spirit or resurrect"). Blizzard hasn't hesitated to stated that a spell was supposed to kill its target in either the tooltip or mechanic - for example, Hand of Death (Hyjal Archimonde's, a spell without instant kill mechanic, but was stated in the tooltip that it kills the targets) or Meltdown (Ulduar's Iron Council, both with instant kill mechanic and a tooltip stating so). Both examples were spells being used in raid before ICC, so it's not like Blizzard wasn't used to describing instant kill spell.

After all, if Fury of Frostmourne was really an instant kill mechanic, Lich King would have been undefeatable in 1v1, unless the opponent is too fast and too strong so that LK wouldn't even be able to will his spell to happen. Seeing that Lei Shen would be able to beat Lich King, that sounds unlikely. Lei Shen (or any other bosses) being defeated by the heroes of Azeroth in game isn't an indicator that he / they are weaker than Lich King. It's not like our power remain unchanged, we were and are still growing more powerful over time (+ getting more powerful equipments). We don't know, maybe the hero who couldn't withstand Lich King's Fury of Frostmourne years ago might be able to tank it with ease nowadays (even DKs with proper CDs could tank it back in the day ICC was still current content).

I do agree that the result would be a lot less one-sided if Lich King is with his Scourge (although he doesn't have any undead dragonflight yet), but that wasn't what OP was asking about :P

[Zulmalakk]

I put my money on galakrond

[Zandalariprelate]

=Sigxy the Lemming;44117940]I keep bringing that last bit up a lot of times. Sure, Arthas may not be the most powerful enemy ever - but he was still "our" biggest challenge. No other boss after Arthas has used an ability to kill us all in one spell - in fact, is there even any boss we had to RUN AWAY from the ENTIRE TIME?

Yes from every boss we have to run to avoid being killed, also blizzard only give arthas the one shot mechanic as a last tribute to arthas before he dies, after we beat him the next bosses we have to fight had been with the help of others lore characters(Deathwing with the aspects and thrall,Ragnaros with Cenarius, Malfurion and Hulm)

But yeah, as some people point out - 1vs1, it would probably be Galakrond if it's a straight on fight. (Unless like someone linked, he gets eaten -then he just cuts himself out), but if there were preparations made, I think the Lich King could stand a bigger chance since he's more tactical. And also: The Scourge is part of his power, so it would need to be counted in. So just toss in a lot of frost drakes and start chewing that thing apart. Or plague it.

Galakrond as a product of the titans experiment have more power than the lich king and we have seen that if the users have a more strong will, they can take the undead from the former master(see balnazzar and their brothers take the scourge of lordaeron after the leak of power of nerzhul and the control that archimonde have with that lich and many undead minions in Hyjal)

[darkoms]

Can Galakrond defeat Archimonde? He had problems with a big deer, how about a big dragon?

[Qualia]

Can Galakrond defeat Archimonde? He had problems with a big deer, how about a big dragon?

Since when did this myth about Archimonde having problems with Malorne start? The guy single-handedly killed the deer, without any mentioned significant wound (or any wound at all). I wouldn't call that "having problems".

On topic of Galakrond, with or without PiS, Archimonde would destroy it, probably easily even. With PiS, Archimonde would do what Tyr did, just stronger and with the boost of Fel magic. Without PiS? Archimonde'd gain some distance to buy time, then proceed to blast both Galakrond and whatever planet they fight on into bits and pieces with that planet-bursting spell of his.

[Zandalariprelate]

Since when did this myth about Archimonde having problems with Malorne start? The guy single-handedly killed the deer, without any mentioned significant wound (or any wound at all). I wouldn't call that "having problems".

On topic of Galakrond, with or without PiS, Archimonde would destroy it, probably easily even. With PiS, Archimonde would do what Tyr did, just stronger and with the boost of Fel magic. Without PiS? Archimonde'd gain some distance to buy time, then proceed to blast both Galakrond and whatever planet they fight on into bits and pieces with that planet-bursting spell of his.

I think in power levels both Archimonde and Kil'jaeden are in pair or maybe a bit ahead in power with ours titans keepers

[Rathbourne]

Can Galakrond defeat Archimonde? He had problems with a big deer, how about a big dragon?

Archimone is a lot stronger than what they showed in WoD.I like to think he lost some of his raw magical strength after his first death, even though he did learn a few new tricks.....

Archi would stomp Lich King, but Galakrond would put up a fight.But i think in the end The Defiler would come out on top.

[Zandalariprelate]

Archimone is a lot stronger than what they showed in WoD.I like to think he lost some of his raw magical strength after his first death, even though he did learn a few new tricks.....

Archi would stomp Lich King, but Galakrond would put up a fight.But i think in the end The Defiler would come out on top.

Archimonde was defeated thanks to the relics from the elementals furies of draenor and the light from the naarus, also 3 majors heroes of that world help us to defeat him, so is unlike he had become weak over the years

[Rathbourne]

Archimonde was defeated thanks to the relics from the elementals furies of draenor and the light from the naarus, also 3 majors heroes of that world help us to defeat him, so is unlike he had become weak over the years

Yea,but compared to the World Tree,the Well of Eternity beneath it,3 different armies,heroes like Malfurion,Tyrande,Thrall,Jaina,Shandris and others,WoD just feels a bit underwhelming.Its probably just my bias,because i love WC3 lore more than the WoW lore.....

[Tenjen]

did he have any protection against mystical might and the spirit world? Cause if he was just a giant fleshbased monster then the LK would win.

[Qualia]

did he have any protection against mystical might and the spirit world? Cause if he was just a giant fleshbased monster then the LK would win.

What "mystical might" and "spirit world" can Arthas / LK employ against Galakrond that'd be strong enough to kill it (and kill it quickly even, since Galakrond probably wouldn't just sit still and it should be a lot faster than LK)?

[MikeBogina]

While Helm of Dominion does have the power to control Undead, as I and others stated before, clearly its power isn't absolute. Sylvanas, the Forsaken (both the ones turned undead by LK / Arthas and the ones turned by Sylvanas & her followers), the Ebon Blade - all were able to break out of his control - ok, to be fair, Lich King was weakened at that point, but he never managed to regain control over them. Even Trag Highmountain (a normal tauren turned Undead by the Orb of Ner'zhul) was able to resist Lich King's orders from afar, break free of Lich King's control at point blank and attacked him. With that said, I pretty much doubt the extend Lich King's power over undeaths not raised / controlled by him or his followers. Would he be able to take control of something as powerful as Galakrond if he couldn't even manage to maintain control on a Tauren?

Additionally, Galakrond is much more powerful than normal dragons or wyrm so Arthas killing Sindragosa doesn't really mean much. How would Arthas bring Galakrond down? Tyr - someone who should be more powerful than Arthas (judging by scaling, seeing that Lei Shen is more powerful than Arthas) - only managed to damage Galakrond to some extends, but not any significant wound. What would Arthas do in a 1v1? He isn't as fast and as maneuverable as the dragons / drakes / Aspects before they became Aspects, so I don't think he can dodge all the strikes / breath that easily. He can't deal enough damage to bring Galakrond down quickly and he - as far as I know - isn't powerful enough to pull the Aspects' trick (breaking mountain top and shoving it inside Galakrond's maw) either. It's true that Galakrond is pretty stupid, but that wouldn't matter if the opponent can't take advantage of it (especially in a 1v1 scenario of the OP).

Galakrond is bigger than any he fought before, stronger than any he fought before, but who cares who's stronger?

Does the strongest person always win? Was Arthas more powerful than Searinox, a black dragon with an army of undead? Was a weakened Arthas more powerful than the ancient Sapphiron?

So yeah, I'm sticking with Lich King Arthas would beat Galakrond, one the dumbest dragons to ever live, who was defeated by proto dragons. He'd probably kill LeiShen's ass too. We did, and we're collectively still weaker.

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did he have any protection against mystical might and the spirit world? Cause if he was just a giant fleshbased monster then the LK would win.

None ever mentioned. His only thing going for him was his size and he bit off Tyr's arm, which was a mistake on Tyr's part.

[Qualia]

Does the strongest person always win? Was Arthas more powerful than Searinox, a black dragon with an army of undead? Was a weakened Arthas more powerful than the ancient Sapphiron?

So yeah, I'm sticking with Lich King Arthas would beat Galakrond, one the dumbest dragons to ever live, who was defeated by proto dragons. He'd probably kill LeiShen's ass too. We did, and we're collectively still weaker.

It's true that the stronger one might not always win. However, it's also true that being smarter doesn't guarantee that one would win either. Searinox and Sapphiron's cases don't apply here, since Arthas in both case had assist from his allies - the Dwarven Dragon Hunters (Searinox) or Anub'arak and the Undead (Sapphiron). OP stated that this is a 1v1 fight, so Arthas only has himself against Galakrond who is a few levels faster, stronger and more durable. Sure, Arthas is smarter than Galakrond, but can you suggest a way for him to win logically? His attacks aren't strong enough to kill it, and he isn't strong enough to pull the tricks the Aspects pulled (taking mountain tops and shoved it into Galakrond's throat). Sure, he can damage the softer parts on its body, but so what? The Aspects did that as well, but in the end it didn't matter much other than hurting and annoying it a bit.

In Lei Shen's case, canonically, Lei Shen at his peak would defeat Lich King at his peak in an 1v1 as per Kosak's answer (here). He even acknowledged that Lich King is smarter too. We defeated Lei Shen, but it was a Lei Shen after resurrection (possibly weakened), AND we were a lot more stronger than we were during Arthas' fight. There is no saying that the heroes team that defeated Lei Shen would face their old fate if they are to fight Arthas again.

[Zandalariprelate]

Yea,but compared to the World Tree,the Well of Eternity beneath it,3 different armies,heroes like Malfurion,Tyrande,Thrall,Jaina,Shandris and others,WoD just feels a bit underwhelming.Its probably just my bias,because i love WC3 lore more than the WoW lore.....

They only blow up those two things you mention, also in WoD, Archimonde was alone with 3 lieutenants while in warcraft 3, the guy had a massive army of demons and undead creatures, now if he was alone in a zone like felwoods,I can see our heroes fighting him without any concern of 3 parties interrupting the fight. Also the Naarus and the furies of draenor with all the spirit energies are really strong and the rings helped a lot in the fight.