Ideas: How to fix Legion/upcoming expansions

[Battlebeard]

I recently unsubscribed due to the lack of flying mounts, I just can't stand the terrain anymore. But there are a lot of other issues with Legion that make me hate it. I've talked a lot with guildies and friends and came up with some ideas.

I just though I post them here, to see what you think of them. Please keep the conversation civil even if you hate them.


1. World Quests. This was fun at the beginning, but when I saw there was an 10000 achievement I just gave up. I would much prefer them to feel more epic and not just repeatable. If anyone played the game Rift, there are these rifts that spawn (not much unlike WQs) in certain areas, however they last a much more shorter time. Instead of having 10000 different WQs to chose from with horrible rewards, like gold or a few resources, why not make less WQs and bigger rewards. Meaning maybe 1-2 WQs per zone per day or maybe even like 5 per week, more like the World Boss WQs. The objective will be much bigger than to just kill 12 mobs and it will take some time to finish. The rewards will be massive compared to todays WQs. Instead of 10 small, we have 1 big with a reward matching that of 10 regular WQs. It would feel like you were really needed there to help and finally finishing that WQ would feel amazing as the reward would be more like "Wow, look at this" than "meh, ok next quest". I hope you get what I mean. And ofc, get rid of that stupid 10k achievement!

2. Legendary items and WF/TF. One of the biggest issues is the RNG of this expansion. Inspired by Diablo, they now try to make the content last longer by having a big focus on RNG. I hate this, for so many reasons. For raid mounts, I always encouraged a "Kill this boss 50 or 100 times and you get this mount as a reward" instead of a 1% drop chance. That way, it's always 50-100 kills, meaning ALOT of effort but there is 0 luck factor. Today, farming a mount could take 1 try or 1000 tries, which is just so frustrating. Same goes for gear. A mate of mine got like 5-6 880 gear from mythic+ in ONE day. I ran 10 dungeons at +5 and never got one gear above 850, sure my friend ran much higher but still, he got so much WF/TF it was insane and I never got anything. Yesterday I finally got a 880 cloak after 11 runs. BUT I had a 885 cloak before... This is crazy demotivating. Same goes for legendaries. My idea is to get rid of WF/TF and have a more solid reward system, like "do this, get this" achievements or similar OR simply this: Have TOKENS drop instead of actual gear. You get a "880 token" that upgrade ANY gear to 880 that you have, so that you can chose and not get what you already have. Same for legendaries. You get a legendary token that you use at a legendary vendor to buy the piece you want. This whole point is very hard to explain in words, I simply want the RNG gone or less important.

3. Artifact Power. I hate AP farming and so does most people it seems. Sadly, I think this stay, as the system with Artifact weapons that you put talents in is actually quite nice, it's just the farm that is awful. So I simply want a system where AP to be accountwide as well as weapon wide. One you add AP to your account, you get it for all your characters weapons. If an alt don't have an artifact yet, it get stored in currency meanwhile. AND artifact knowledge should not stop at 25. Let that work like Paragon levels in Diablo 3. You get lets say 1000% more per upgrade and you get 1 upgrade every 5 days just like now. The more you play, the higher it gets. 25000% at level 25 is not as awesome as it sounds.

4. Zones, flying, leveling etc. I absolutely loved that you could pick a start zone in the Broken isles. But I hated the design of most of them. Only Azsuna is bareable, the others are so hard to navigate. In Valsharah, you have a billion pits with roots and hills etc. You get stuck everywhere. In Highmountain there are obviously mountains that forces you to take insane detours. And in Stormheim everything is on platues and if you get down to the water, getting back up takes forever. They should simply allow you to get flying once you have done Loremaster of the Broken isles. I see no reason to wait for 7.2. Same for upcoming expansions, give us flying once we have done the quests. And for the love of god, remove DAZE from the game, it serves no purpose except for pissing people off.

5. Mythic+. Some people love it, some hate it. I like the idea of it BUT it failed cause it's so extremly gear depending. I loved Challenge Modes in both WoD and MoP. It was intense and skill depending and your gear didn't matter that much. In Legion, I can't even find a group above +5 with 870, because gear make you breeze through them to get better gear. There are noobs who play more than me and who get slightly boosted to 880++ who clear more things, yet they can't interupt and they constantly stand in the fire. I like that Mythic+ has different + levels and that it's an alternative gear way but WHY does it not have an ilvl limit like CM. I want this: Fewer mythic+ levels and gear that scale to it. Like this model:

Mythic Level 1: About the difficulty of current mythic+5, rewards quite nice gear. Gear scale to lets say 850. You need 850 to enter, no limit it scale to 850.
Mythic Level 2: About the difficulty of current mythic+10, rewards great gear. Gear scale to lets say 865. You need 865 to enter, but no limit, it scale to 865.
Mythic Level 3: About the difficulty of current mythic+15, rewards really great gear. Gear scale to lets say 880. You need 880 to enter, no limit, it scales.

This way, you can keep certain +levels BUT your gear won't matter that much. This system will reward skill more than having good gear.



These are just some ideas that I think would really save the game. What do you think, please discuss. If you disagree, PLEASE say WHY, I can't stand people who just say "this sucks".

[Bumbasta]

I disagree with basically everything you say here. There is no such thing as AP grinding. It´s simply playing, any aspect of the game, that rewards you with AP. World Quests, who the hell forces you to do that many? It's only 4 a day if yo care for the cache. Mythic+ is skill depending above anything else. Ofcourse it is gear depending, isn't that always te case with this kind of games?

The only thing I agree with is that most zones are hard to navigate.

[Deleted]

Only thing I agree with is that WT/TF should be removed such a stupid fucking design. The rest is not so much.

[shonist]

no, you are wrong, and you always are. ty

[Battlebeard]

I disagree with basically everything you say here. There is no such thing as AP grinding. It´s simply playing, any aspect of the game, that rewards you with AP. World Quests, who the hell forces you to do that many? It's only 4 a day if yo care for the cache. Mythic+ is skill depending above anything else. Ofcourse it is gear depending, isn't that always te case with this kind of games?

The only thing I agree with is that most zones are hard to navigate.

Challenge Mode weren't gear depending. Sure there was a BiS list BUT in the end, everything got scaled down to a certain ilvl, and you almost never failed a CM Gold Run cause someone had this belt instead of that belt etc.

[Nayami]

I disagree with basically everything you say here. There is no such thing as AP grinding. It´s simply playing, any aspect of the game, that rewards you with AP. World Quests, who the hell forces you to do that many? It's only 4 a day if yo care for the cache. Mythic+ is skill depending above anything else. Ofcourse it is gear depending, isn't that always te case with this kind of games?

The only thing I agree with is that most zones are hard to navigate.

Very true what you said about AP. It's not something you should grind for, it's something you accumulate over time by playing the game. You get AP from simply playing (dungeons, raids, BGs, arenas, skirmishes, world quests). There are so many sources where you may obtain AP from that I can't even consider it a grind because I'd still participate in that kind of content, even if AP didn't exist.

I don't even do WQs anymore. The amount of AP is not worth investing my time in (imo), I'd rather spend that time doing a Mythic+ dungeon or raid. I only do WQs for Caches (I even skip caches sometimes) or for relics (hoping that they'll proc).

[Deleted]

Challenge Mode weren't gear depending. Sure there was a BiS list BUT in the end, everything got scaled down to a certain ilvl, and you almost never failed a CM Gold Run cause someone had this belt instead of that belt etc.

Yeah you failed because your class/spec sucked at itemlvl x.
Sure Gold was doable for every class/spec but some combos were just plain simpler than others.

[Deleted]

Maybe if you actually watch your screen instead of alt tabbing wouldn't be so hard to move around zones.

The only thing i share with you is the Daze, but i can understand why it's here.

And sorry, i can't believe someone actually quit game for no fly. Sorry i just can't.

[dmerriam005]

solution: BRING BACK THE OLD DEVELOPERS, not this fresh team of rookies who have no idea what they are doing

[enchiridion]

1. Wq were meant to be a slightly different take on dailies, if you don't like that the system wasn't designed with you in mind.
2. Wf/tf does generally suck. I see the argument of you are always bettering your character but I just disagree that that has to be a thing, still not something that drastically hurts my game play though.
3. So, the people who really need to grind ap prolly don't actually overlap with the people who complain about it, given that-don't grind it
4. The terrain is absolutely hard to navigate, but that makes it more immersive, granted there are some failures that are only frustrating Val is meant to have roots/vines littering the landscape, what do you expect from a place called highmountain. It gets a lot easier to navigate with the flight masters whistle. Also....don't people want vanilla back? Weren't some of those zones pretty hard to traverse, didn't have flying then...
5. Similar to Wq I think you missed the point...m+ is on a spectrum that eases you into each level, with a couple ways of graduating the difficulty-your m+ idea is literally add 3 new dungeon difficulties and spike them in difficulty much faster than how our current 3 difficulties do. Also, at this point if you are 865 you play more casually (which is great, play the game how you want to play) but what do those higher m+ offer you ?

All in all if you are quitting bc there's no flying, I don't know that an mmo is what you are interested in, sounds more like the exploration game genre is more your preference, bc flying is not a major content type of wow

[Jujudrood]

1) WQ are fine, if you don't want to do them, you don't have to. There isn't a single piece of content in the game currently that REQUIRES you to be at 54 wep traits, it's meant to be a long-term goal, not attained by 70% of the playerbase before the first actual tier of content.
2) Legendary system is garbage right now, but giving a token and allowing you to select them wouldn't help anything aside from making them mandatory, so the token acquisition would need to be somewhat normalized (instead of a "do stuff" crapshoot that we have today). Instead, there should be a short-to-medium quest chain to obtain one, where at the end of this 4 week (as an example) quest line, you get an option of 2 randomly chosen ones for your spec; pick A or B just like you do for greens when leveling, or something related to questing since this game is built on it.
3) AP is fine, you don't need past 35 traits for any current content and getting there isn't that bad, especially with the compendiums now for alts.
4) Zones are kind of annoying at first, but the biggest detour you might take is like 15 seconds. If your attention span is less than that, then maybe you need to play more hack n slash games? Ones where you mash one or two buttons while watching TV/YouTube? I do hate Daze as well, and with the level scaling, all mobs aggro you for simply passing through to the raid stone. Annoying. Maybe restrict Daze to mobs of higher level than you? That way, leveling up is a threat, but if I'm sitting at 880 gear, and this level 110 mob with 700k HP wants to tango, at least he won't possibly dismount me. QoL change at best.
5) Mythic + is fine, though there should have been a cap instituted to prevent people from farming their brains out for TF items that are better than current raid items. Otherwise, the difficulty is fine, the lack of scaling down like CMs is fine. They serve their purpose and are a good addition.

So, I guess I disagree with most of what you said, but I get where you're coming from. Some changes could help, but for the majority of the playerbase, it's fine.

[Battlebeard]

I never really said Mythic+ difficulty is bad, I just think it should be focus on Skill and not Gear.

I personally believe I could do +20 easily, SKILLWISE, due to lots of years of this game. But I simply don't have the time to farm the gear necessary.

Maybe I suck I can't even do +10, who knows. At least give me the CHANCE to prove myself. Let everyone try it and the skilled will prevail anyway. I see no harm in scaling them down to a set ilvl.

[Matthias]

I recently unsubscribed due to the lack of flying mounts

I found it hard to take you seriously starting from here....-_-.

Legion is a great expansion. It has it's issues, but they mostly truly affect the harder core audience.

[laplacedemon]

I never really said Mythic+ difficulty is bad, I just think it should be focus on Skill and not Gear.

I personally believe I could do +20 easily, SKILLWISE, due to lots of years of this game. But I simply don't have the time to farm the gear necessary.

Maybe I suck I can't even do +10, who knows. At least give me the CHANCE to prove myself. Let everyone try it and the skilled will prevail anyway. I see no harm in scaling them down to a set ilvl.

How many times would you do it then? You might not have the time to get gear, but unlike challenge modes m+ adds huge amounts of replayability.

[Tomyris]

I recently unsubscribed due to the lack of flying mounts, I just can't stand the terrain anymore. But there are a lot of other issues with Legion that make me hate it. I've talked a lot with guildies and friends and came up with some ideas.

I just though I post them here, to see what you think of them. Please keep the conversation civil even if you hate them.


1. World Quests. This was fun at the beginning, but when I saw there was an 10000 achievement I just gave up. I would much prefer them to feel more epic and not just repeatable. If anyone played the game Rift, there are these rifts that spawn (not much unlike WQs) in certain areas, however they last a much more shorter time. Instead of having 10000 different WQs to chose from with horrible rewards, like gold or a few resources, why not make less WQs and bigger rewards. Meaning maybe 1-2 WQs per zone per day or maybe even like 5 per week, more like the World Boss WQs. The objective will be much bigger than to just kill 12 mobs and it will take some time to finish. The rewards will be massive compared to todays WQs. Instead of 10 small, we have 1 big with a reward matching that of 10 regular WQs. It would feel like you were really needed there to help and finally finishing that WQ would feel amazing as the reward would be more like "Wow, look at this" than "meh, ok next quest". I hope you get what I mean. And ofc, get rid of that stupid 10k achievement!

I prefer the way they are now, I rather like having more and traveling to do them, also not spending an hour for one only, but it is not necessarily a bad idea, I can see why it can appeal to other people and playstyles. What I dont get is your beef with the achievement. I did not even know it goes up to there, my advice is to try to keep your OCD under control. Dont take take it as an insult, we all have it, some more, some less.

[Deleted]

solution: BRING BACK THE OLD DEVELOPERS, not this fresh team of rookies who have no idea what they are doing

they are rookies in the sense that they don't have alot of experience as developers (neither had the vanilla team though) but the team mostly consists of people who have litteraly grown up playing wow through vanilla and the expansions that came after it. and in terms of ideas, i think they've done a fine job for the most part.

[Deleted]

I never really said Mythic+ difficulty is bad, I just think it should be focus on Skill and not Gear.

I personally believe I could do +20 easily, SKILLWISE, due to lots of years of this game. But I simply don't have the time to farm the gear necessary.

Maybe I suck I can't even do +10, who knows. At least give me the CHANCE to prove myself. Let everyone try it and the skilled will prevail anyway. I see no harm in scaling them down to a set ilvl.

Just to clarify, are you asking this only for Mythic+ or also for raiding?

[satimy]

Enable flying
Ignore feedback from cyclical customers
Revert all class changes back to SOO patch

[Bumbasta]

Challenge Mode weren't gear depending. Sure there was a BiS list BUT in the end, everything got scaled down to a certain ilvl, and you almost never failed a CM Gold Run cause someone had this belt instead of that belt etc.

Yeah i get what you mean with CM. But think about it. Everything is gear dependent apart from that: no matter what content you play (apart form CM), it is all easier when you have beter gear. So why do you regard Mythic+ content as being a failure because it's gear dependent? Raiding is too. PvPing is too. Even leveling is...

[beefy48]

The only thing that I agree with is that some of the zones are hard to get around in. I don't really see that as a bad thing though.