The Zerg Swarm vs The Burning Legion. Who would win?

[Nathreim]

Doesn't matter if the demons can't properly enter the physical universe. The Legion's failed assaults on Azeroth happen years apart and they still need someone on our end to let them in.

Thats not what I said at all. They can enter our universe at will just not with any accuracy. The reason the Legion needs portals is because their army is on the other side of the universe and their ships cant move the more powerful demons.

The vastness of the universe is the greatest protection Azeroth has.

The Legion will still slowly take over the universe if we dont stop them it might take Billions of years to explore and destroy it all but they are immortal so they have all the time in the world. Then you have to account for the Legion invading multiple universe all at once. Getting beaten a few times is no big deal they will try again.

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psionics will always trump magic

Then why did the Old Gods lose to the Titans?

[Aquamonkey]

No... No, it still only specifies that the million demons were comprised of demons ripped from all corners of the Universe. Good for them. All of the burning legion is like that, and that's to be expected.

I mean, you could say "Eisenhower gathered the American Troops and made his way towards the unsuspecting shores of Normandy. The Americans, comprised of 73,000 soldiers, were all from various parts of the United States, grimly prepared for the battle ahead." That's literally just switching out applicable words from your quote.

You don't read that and think "Gee wilikers, the Americans only had 73,000 soldiers in the entirety of World War 2 and they dropped ALL of them on the shores of Normandy?!"

No, you think "oh, so the American Army sent 73,000 soldiers to invade the shores of Normandy. Cool facts" while logically concluding that they had more soldiers than that.

"Sargeras gathered his vast, demonic army, known as the Burning Legion." You're analogy is dropping important words.
"The Legion, comprising of a million screaming demons." It doesn't say "legion" lower case. It says "Legion", as in the Burning Legion, the one and only Burning Legion.

The proper analogy would be. "Eisenhower gathered his nation's army, known as the American Army." That means American Army is the name for the army he gathered. "The American Army comprised of 73,000 soldiers." That means the entirety of the American Army has that many soldiers.

There is only 1 Burning Legion and it comprised of 1 million demons.

Again, Azeroth isn't some backwater burg of a planet. It was built to be protected from forces exactly like the burning Legion by design.

Azeroth's defenses were built to protect against the Old Gods.

Furthermore, the Legion is shown to have space ships and are capable of inter-dimensional travel, "faster than light" be damned.

The zerg are more adept at space combat with units specialized for that kind of engagement.

Sure do. But the Burning Legion is vastly larger than the scourge. The Zerg can't just brute force them.

Yes, the Legion is larger than the Scourge. The zerg are still several orders of magnitude larger than the Legion. That was specifically regarding the magical argument. Magic doesn't mean auto-win against the zerg.

[FelPlague]

argus isn't in the nether. it's part of the universe.

argus however, is not essential to the legion. man'ari are now demons, their soul would go to nether upon death now. so it doesn't really matter what happens to argus. it's simply the throne of kil'jaedan now, which is its importance to us in the story.

well and its a massive demon stronghold, and i presume a place that creates the ships and infernals, as they both seem to be made of this infernal brimstone, and looking at argus, it seems to be completely made of the shit

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"Sargeras gathered his vast, demonic army, known as the Burning Legion." You're analogy is dropping important words.
"The Legion, comprising of a million screaming demons." It doesn't say "legion" lower case. It says "Legion", as in the Burning Legion, the one and only Burning Legion.

The proper analogy would be. "Eisenhower gathered his nation's army, known as the American Army." That means American Army is the name for the army he gathered. "The American Army comprised of 73,000 soldiers." That means the entirety of the American Army has that many soldiers.

There is only 1 Burning Legion and it comprised of 1 million demons.


Azeroth's defenses were built to protect against the Old Gods.


The zerg are more adept at space combat with units specialized for that kind of engagement.


Yes, the Legion is larger than the Scourge. The zerg are still several orders of magnitude larger than the Legion. That was specifically regarding the magical argument. Magic doesn't mean auto-win against the zerg.

where do you get this information about the "zerg being more adept at space combat" the legion has space ships, able to launch barrages and lazers, im pretty sure they are good too... i dont see where your getting they are better at space combat...

also the thing about why the scourge would not be good against the zerg is that the major strength behind the scourge is that for each soilder that falls, another soilder joins the scourge, but the zerg we dont know if they could be raised to undeath, so the whole fear and horror of the scourge and what made them such a massive thread, that anyone at any time could turn against you, and it could spread in a instant, dooming towns and cities with no one knowing (loderan for example, like stratholme and hearthglen... there was no fight... the fight was over the second they ate the bread....) we dont know (and based on how the zerg are, with infesation and such) it seems like the major part of the scourge would not do anything to do the zerg

so yes fire magic, beasts able to launch waves of fire across zerg frying them in instant... the legion may be much lower in numbers, but again how strong are these numbers, lumbering infernals of massive size, fel reavers, dreadlords so strong they can explode creatures by fucking pointing at them!

and yes the zerg has a few units like this, but maybe 0.001% of their army max, the leviathans (fucking huge) and the ultralisks, rather large, but there is fel reavers and infernals (abyssals aswell? but they have sorta dissapeared...) who are just as big

[Exigaet]

well and its a massive demon stronghold, and i presume a place that creates the ships and infernals, as they both seem to be made of this infernal brimstone, and looking at argus, it seems to be completely made of the shit

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where do you get this information about the "zerg being more adept at space combat" the legion has space ships, able to launch barrages and lazers, im pretty sure they are good too... i dont see where your getting they are better at space combat...

also the thing about why the scourge would not be good against the zerg is that the major strength behind the scourge is that for each soilder that falls, another soilder joins the scourge, but the zerg we dont know if they could be raised to undeath, so the whole fear and horror of the scourge and what made them such a massive thread, that anyone at any time could turn against you, and it could spread in a instant, dooming towns and cities with no one knowing (loderan for example, like stratholme and hearthglen... there was no fight... the fight was over the second they ate the bread....) we dont know (and based on how the zerg are, with infesation and such) it seems like the major part of the scourge would not do anything to do the zerg

so yes fire magic, beasts able to launch waves of fire across zerg frying them in instant... the legion may be much lower in numbers, but again how strong are these numbers, lumbering infernals of massive size, fel reavers, dreadlords so strong they can explode creatures by fucking pointing at them!

and yes the zerg has a few units like this, but maybe 0.001% of their army max, the leviathans (fucking huge) and the ultralisks, rather large, but there is fel reavers and infernals (abyssals aswell? but they have sorta dissapeared...) who are just as big

The Legion might have a couple of ships, but the Zerg have a bunch of big ships, and millions, if not billions of "aircraft" fighters in Mutalisks, Corruptors and Scourge.

Building a since Legion ship would probably take months.

Zerg ships/fighters are grown. Each planet the Zerg take from the Legion allows them to grow whatever they need very quickly. That's the strength of the Zerg.

Zerg don't even really need to land on a planet to kill any of the Legion there. The Leviathans could probably bombard it from space. Even the most powerful members of the Legion probably couldn't reach that far with magic.

[Aquamonkey]

where do you get this information about the "zerg being more adept at space combat" the legion has space ships, able to launch barrages and lazers, im pretty sure they are good too... i dont see where your getting they are better at space combat...

So the Legion has capital ships with a handful of canons, and that's it. Zerg have more diverse and specialized units for space combat (along with greater numbers).

also the thing about why the scourge would not be good against the zerg is that the major strength behind the scourge is that for each soilder that falls, another soilder joins the scourge, but the zerg we dont know if they could be raised to undeath, so the whole fear and horror of the scourge and what made them such a massive thread, that anyone at any time could turn against you, and it could spread in a instant, dooming towns and cities with no one knowing (loderan for example, like stratholme and hearthglen... there was no fight... the fight was over the second they ate the bread....) we dont know (and based on how the zerg are, with infesation and such) it seems like the major part of the scourge would not do anything to do the zerg

The threat of the Scourge wasn't just that they'd convert people into more undead. It was a massive (relative to mortal races of Azeroth, it only numbered in the thousands) army of undead, which are incredibly resilient and don't require rest. They also used powerful magic. Magic is not an insta-win against the zerg.

so yes fire magic, beasts able to launch waves of fire across zerg frying them in instant... the legion may be much lower in numbers, but again how strong are these numbers, lumbering infernals of massive size, fel reavers, dreadlords so strong they can explode creatures by fucking pointing at them!

The majority of the Legion's forces aren't those types of units. They're shitty demons like felguards and felhounds. Dreadlords function as secret police and interrogators, not front-line troops.

Metzen's quote is ambiguous as to which era of Scourge he's referring to. The original Scourge had dreadlords and infernals.

and yes the zerg has a few units like this, but maybe 0.001% of their army max, the leviathans (fucking huge) and the ultralisks, rather large, but there is fel reavers and infernals (abyssals aswell? but they have sorta dissapeared...) who are just as big

0.001% of tens of billions is hundreds of thousands. Nothing the Legion has (minus Sargeras) comes anywhere close to the size of leviathans, which are "moon-sized".

[vilememory]

Lets try to sum up all the posts and fights going on with something more bite sized and understandable.

Zerg Starcraft universe: Poorly described technology and mind control.
Burning Legion Warcraft Universe: FUCKING MAGIC! How does it work? Magic. What does it do? Magic. Is there any answer we can get that isn't a single word to describe magic? Nope. It is magic, that is all you need to know and that is all there is to know.

Conclusion: Discussions like these can be fun if made light heartedly, but far too often fan desires leak in and suddenly it becomes another Superman vs Goku fight. Beating our heads against a wall trying to drown out my fandom is better than yours arguments.

[FelPlague]

Fel reavers would be designated from the corrosive acids of the zerg. Big ships mean nothing if you are fighting small things it has been proven big ships cannot fight small ships, the scourge a suicider that will melt the hull of a space ship and these amount in the millions so you lose there. The leviathans literally ripped through Terran ships as proven in heart of the swarm. The zerg live on a volcanic world for a reason to build a resistance to fire and for most zerg it works. An ultralisk stands taller than a fel reaver and would cleave it in half, Omegalisks are bigger. The zerg is also all about adapting they will eventually adapt and then what? Ur fucked, Fel infused zerg that obey the swarm and the swarm only. So now they use your magic and their masses aginst you as well as infect every soldier you have with their virus which will work on them and the legion demons will become zerg increasing their masses.

If you say bring on Segeras I say bring on Xel'Naga Kerrigan which has the power to end cycles... in the starcraft universe that means the universe is gone in an instant. Because a cycle is a new universe with new life, Segeras cannot do that.

how would fel reavers be "designated" from the corrosive acids of the zerg? if something can survive molten fucking lava, and is made of it, it can most likley survive some acid...
you have to remember acid doesent melt everything... so depends on what the acid can melt, and what the ships are made of
also he was talking about space versus space.... where has it been proven big ships cannot fight small ships? what the utter fuck is that
felfire/=/ fire also they are still very much ripped apart by flame throwers from the terran, so no they have not 'built a resiliance to fire" they are just used to the heat....
terran ships/=/ legion ships
uhh what? ultralisks are not taller then fel reavers....


fel reaver is maybe about 25% larger then ultralisk, and speaking that an ultralisk claw had trouble cuting through protoss metal, it wouldent "cleave it in half"
omegalisk may be double in size, but they are EXTREAMLY FEW and far between
and yes adapting... but how long, and to what? they have been fighting the protoss for how long ,and still havent built resiliance to their lazer weapons...
lol yes build a complete immunity to fel magic and shadow... and oh yeah weapons... sure....
fel infued zerg? yeah no fuck off mate
legion demons becoming zerg? what the fuck.... go fuck yourself
and uhh xel naga kerrigan was not part of the "swarm"

[iky43210]

fel reaver can get beaten by a team of wizards with frost or fire balls, and those are definitely alot weaker than banelings and whatever mini-nuke equivalents zerg is developing these days.

Zerg already have no problem dealing with Thors and battlecruisers, and no matter how you look at it fel reaver is just a primitive model of thor held together by magic.

[Exigaet]

Fel Reavers can also be destroyed by an assortment of melee weapons made by an "inferior" metal. Shows you just how "strong" a Fel Reaver is...

[Better]

Well a Leviathan would decimate a Fel Reaver, there are many Leviathans, and they don't travel alone. Not only that, they function as flying assault fortresses, able to launch flying units, as well as drop, or directly inject in a massive number of ground support, all while being an absurdly strong unit by themselves. So absurdly powerful the only thing that would likely even contest them (keeping in mind they are called "moon sized") would be Sargeras himself. There's nothing the Legion has shown that would give them any kind of aerial superiority over the swarm which is a pretty big deal given the size of these armies. I think it would quickly turn into the demons going on the defensive, where the zerg's insane ability to siege planets would shine.

Additionally flamethrowers are effective against like... 2 zerg units? And then fodder units which spawn indefinitely from other units. Mana is a limiting factor for how long casters could maintain a front against a broodlord, or swarmhost.

The legion is fel-infused. The zerg can take traits of things they kill, and spin them into their own strains if they are worth it. There's literally no reason the zerg couldn't become fel-infused.

[Rafoel]

It's actually possible that demons are immune to non-magical weapons, like in D&D settings (remember Archimonde armor in WC3?). Now mind you, in WoW almost all weapons are magical. In Starcraft.... not so.

Anybody got a lore example of demon getting killed by ordinary piece of metal, wood etc. ?

[Dasani]

Lets try to sum up all the posts and fights going on with something more bite sized and understandable.

Zerg Starcraft universe: Poorly described technology and mind control.
Burning Legion Warcraft Universe: FUCKING MAGIC! How does it work? Magic. What does it do? Magic. Is there any answer we can get that isn't a single word to describe magic? Nope. It is magic, that is all you need to know and that is all there is to know.

Conclusion: Discussions like these can be fun if made light heartedly, but far too often fan desires leak in and suddenly it becomes another Superman vs Goku fight. Beating our heads against a wall trying to drown out my fandom is better than yours arguments.

I was thinking earlier it's actually more like Batman vs Superman argument. And Sargeras is kryptonite.

The zerg/superman grossly, grossly outclass the legion/batman in ways that he never stands a chance under any situation except those involving sargeras/kryptonite. But despite that, some people just "want to believe" so hard, they abandon all logic and reason. So much content exists to show just how powerful the legion is and what sorts of magical abilities they have. I've been killing demons from the legion for 12+ years now and i've seen lots of their magic and spells, and none of it would be enough. But people just make things up in their head and say "oh you know what, the legion could probably do THIS" and start listing off abilities and powers and things they simply don't have. Assumptions and wishful thinking in layers and layers.

There's a lot of sane folk that know the zerg would come out on top, just baffles me some people think the legion would. But, like I said, it's just like the folks that think Batman could ever beat superman without kryptonite. It just can't happen. Even in comics where the writers change all the time and they make absolutely ludicrous stories, batman has never won without kryptonite. Whether it's his kryptonite ring, kryptonite arrow, kryptonite gas grenades, red kryptonite, or whatever other things he has made over the years, it's literally the only thing he has and is useless without it against such an opponent. But that debate rages on for... unknown reason. I guess it's why the power of suggestion and placebos work on some people and not others, some are just waaaay too easy to convince themselves of shit so utterly and completely.

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It's actually possible that demons are immune to non-magical weapons, like in D&D settings (remember Archimonde armor in WC3?). Now mind you, in WoW almost all weapons are magical. In Starcraft.... not so.

Anybody got a lore example of demon getting killed by ordinary piece of metal, wood etc. ?

Demons can be killed by non magical weapons and even punched and kicked to death. You can do it in WOW at any time. Also happened in warcraft 3 where demons were massacred with non-magical weapons used by everything from common footmen to savage quillboar using even more primitive weapons.

And if people don't want to consider the realities of either WOW or Warcraft 3, which are the only sources of the legion even existing, then I don't see the point. It's like arguing against broken imaginations.

[Hiricine]

In terms of numbers and size, the legion seems to be bigger than the zerg. By extension, there seems to be claims in Wow lore that the Legion has conquered all worlds except Azeroth, which would imply if there is some sort of shared universe that the Legion has ALREADY defeated the Zerg. By contrast, the Swarm is still fighting other races which very much have a presence in the universe it exists in.

[Deleted]

Tl'dr: Zerg need to spread out and they will decimate Burning Legion Worlds and armies permenantly. However they can't beat Sargeras.

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Only advantage Burning legion have is magic, Sargeras, his highest ranking Lords (kil'jaeden lvl) and the corruptive element of Felmagic protecting them to certain aspects of the zerg.

EVerything outside of that zerg rofl stomps them, Burning legion melee is useless against them but atleast they have creepy crawlers as well so they don';t have this humanoid horror of that aspect :P.
Felmagic might be quite effective against the zerg but once they adept to it it's just like any other modern weapon in Starcraft universe. The insanely powerfull spells that burn an entire battlefield can still be really strong however.
It's unlikely zerg will be able to make drones out of the legion like they can with humanoids, the fel magic is just too corruptive and interferes with it. Assimulating burning legion DNA might only help in building a resistance to fel magic evolution but probably nothing more as Felmagic can be corruptive and requires knowledge to use. Zerg doesn't assimilate knowledge.

So the zerg has a huge advantage in the fighting of armies. But Sargeras is the issue. While it's supposed planet destroying ability is something the prottoss have as well, he is similiar to Amon in power (less mind controlling, shadow creation but more fighting). The zerg wont be able to win against him, unless you count Xel'naga Kerrigan as part of the Zerg.

So zerg should zerg should just spread out and invest all the demonworlds which results in permanent death of the Demons and the Lords of the Burning Legion can't be everywhere. Their is this thing though of how fast zerg can multiply, in later Starcraft 2 story which make it seem their is a limited supply untill, but maybe they can use the biomater from dead burning legion.

[Deleted]

fire cannot break ultralisk armor

zerg wins hands down




do you know what infestor is?

You got me.

[huth]

Burning Legion by sheer force of numbers. Even without demon immortality they outnumber the Zerg by a ridiculous margin.

I.e. they could simply zerg the Zerg to extinction.

[Honik]

Burning Legion would win because I like Warcraft more

[Aquamonkey]

how would fel reavers be "designated" from the corrosive acids of the zerg? if something can survive molten fucking lava, and is made of it, it can most likley survive some acid...
you have to remember acid doesent melt everything... so depends on what the acid can melt, and what the ships are made of

I think he meant disintegrated. Molten lava and acid are completely different things that operate on completely different processes. Also, molten lava is not very durable. When it cools, it turns into weak rock/glass.

also he was talking about space versus space.... where has it been proven big ships cannot fight small ships? what the utter fuck is that

All we see the Legion ships do is fire large blasts from a handful of guns. That's not going to do shit against a swarm of agile flyers. The Legion has its own flyers, but they can't fly in space where there is no air. Also, they have nowhere near the numbers as the zerg who are more than capable of taking out capital ships.

In terms of numbers and size, the legion seems to be bigger than the zerg.

Burning Legion by sheer force of numbers. Even without demon immortality they outnumber the Zerg by a ridiculous margin.

I.e. they could simply zerg the Zerg to extinction.

The Legion only seems neverending because they respawn, but it has a finite amount of members. According to the WC3 Manual, the entire Legion only consisted of 1 million demons at the time of the War of the Ancients. By TBC, Azerothians estimated the Legion to only be millions. Millions is a far cry short of unlimited. The Zerg have over 10 BILLION on Char and over 5 BILLION on Aiur. That's just 2 Zerg planets and already over 15 BILLION. The Zerg have 10,000 times the Legion's numbers.

By extension, there seems to be claims in Wow lore that the Legion has conquered all worlds except Azeroth, which would imply if there is some sort of shared universe that the Legion has ALREADY defeated the Zerg. By contrast, the Swarm is still fighting other races which very much have a presence in the universe it exists in.

The Legion don't really conquer worlds, they scour them, leaving a wake of smoldering dead planets.

The Zerg are fighting races with huge numbers as well. Terrans are above 10 billion. Protoss had billions on Aiur and supplement their forces with robots, but they still lost.

[Zardam]

Burning legion. Easily. If the lore is taken into account, the legion has conquered thousands of worlds and is controlled by pretty much a god.

[zaino]

Burning legion. Easily. If the lore is taken into account, the legion has conquered thousands of worlds and is controlled by pretty much a god.

Funny, that's kind of how the Zerg are too