[7.3] Azortharion's Hunter Guides

[Deleted]

With the new MM, i feel like moving messes my rotation up way harder than it did with the old talents. (i can t really say how much of it is not beeing used to the new talents, and how fragile the new MM rotation really is to movement)

To be completely honest, this is the biggest issue i have with the new MM. Also itf feels like you have to put way more efford in to do your rotation as close to optimum as possible, also a bad ping (80+ ms) is really a pain in the ass if your trying to perfectly time your aimed shots within the last seconds of your vulnerable buff. Compared to other classes it feels like MM is waaaay more difficult to master and even if you do, you still sucks bad.

Still best addon so far for me overall, but if they don t fix this, i will not have as much fun playing my hunter as i had before.

[Khrux]

Am I blind or is mobile icy veins fucked? I can't see talent sims on the BM guide, only gear on gear page and racials, legendarys, tier etc. on sims page. The guide says talent sims are on the talent page but its not visible to me.

[Deleted]

i wish i could trade my 4 mm legendaries for 2 bm ones. The arcane shot spam playstyle gives me fucking cancer, its so much aids.

[Deleted]

Anyone else experienced the bug with your True Aim and Lock and Load being active at the same time?
Am I missing something? For some reason i have two talents active simultaneously. Wont complain though.

[Deleted]

But going from fast to slow constantly just feels... Somewhat off.

i agree 100% with how you put it, and why it feels off. and on to that then the mess that patient sniper causes playing a hunter right now just feels awful.

tap,tap,tap,tap and then castbars , tap tap tap , more castbar ....

and marked shot lighting up like a christmas tree (but not be allowed to tap that ass) is driving me up a fucking wall.

[globenstine]

at this point hoping for anything much more than numbers tuning is just delusional. at most i hope they remove patient sniper for something else. its pretty cancer to play with atm. as if 7 seconds wasn't constraining enough of a window for a class that cant move and cast, now you have to make sure your snap shotting the end of the buff with an AIS. although it wouldn't be nearly as big an issue if we could move and shoot. at this point missing a window is almost as bad as 7.1 arcane mage dropping quickening stacks, you might as well lay down and die.

[satimy]

Explosive shot needs to just be a targeted ability

[Chickensoup23]

How many targets do I need for volley to > AMOC?

Edit: for Bench Mastery spec

[Trictagon]

It seems if sidewinders is selected, black arrow may be better than lock n load. Sims a bit higher for me, but at the same time it appears undervalued in sims. Across a dungeon, black arrow was 9-13% of my damage if you include the pet, with somewhat higher DPET than the sim suggested. The pet doesn't do anything derpy like taunt in dungeons. It looks like sidewinders is pretty good with the legendary belt and if you have sidewinders already selected, black arrow seems better than lock n load, though I don't have any real data to back that up. Being able to hit spread targets still feels incredibly strong in a dungeon even with the nerfed marked shot, and you can benefit somewhat from the belt on single target too.

I only have my own experiences to go by, but without sidewinders I find myself not reaching some targets with multi shot, even though they seem stacked (possibly something to do with moving targets and distance calculation?).

I've seen black arrow do slightly over 1.2mil in a single gcd for 10 focus (all crits, probably in trueshot), which is a hell of a lot for 10 focus, half as much as windburst costs.

Not forcing ideas onto anyone, but I'm interested in any anecdotal experiences others have with this talent. Maybe try black arrow+sidewinders in a few mythic+ and share your experience. Obviously on a single target raid boss you would use true aim and trick shot, but that's not ideal in dungeons.

- - - Updated - - -

Random rant: it sucks that sidewinders still has no interaction with the CDR boots.

[Kwaai]

It seems if sidewinders is selected, black arrow may be better than lock n load. Sims a bit higher for me, but at the same time it appears undervalued in sims. Across a dungeon, black arrow was 9-13% of my damage if you include the pet, with somewhat higher DPET than the sim suggested. The pet doesn't do anything derpy like taunt in dungeons. It looks like sidewinders is pretty good with the legendary belt and if you have sidewinders already selected, black arrow seems better than lock n load, though I don't have any real data to back that up. Being able to hit spread targets still feels incredibly strong in a dungeon even with the nerfed marked shot, and you can benefit somewhat from the belt on single target too.

I only have my own experiences to go by, but without sidewinders I find myself not reaching some targets with multi shot, even though they seem stacked (possibly something to do with moving targets and distance calculation?).

I've seen black arrow do slightly over 1.2mil in a single gcd for 10 focus (all crits, probably in trueshot), which is a hell of a lot for 10 focus, half as much as windburst costs.

Not forcing ideas onto anyone, but I'm interested in any anecdotal experiences others have with this talent. Maybe try black arrow+sidewinders in a few mythic+ and share your experience. Obviously on a single target raid boss you would use true aim and trick shot, but that's not ideal in dungeons.

Iirc, BA has always been super close, especially in dungeons where you can reliably get resets.

[Avikur]

what am I meant to do in this situation:

I have a vulnerable buff, I spam Aimed Shot until i'm out of focus, I want to use Arcane Shot to get focus back but my Marked Shot lights up, if I use it I'll get a vulnerable buff with hardly any focus to use Aimed Shot so risk wasting it, if I ignore it and spam Arcane Shot I risk wasting my Marked Shot it if it procs again.

Also, are we meant to actually watch the Paitent sniper stacks? and try to line an aimed shot up with the last split second, timing it just right so it hits just in the last second? Or is it a 'select and forget' talent? I realise it'd be a DPS gain to watch the stacks but is it enough of a gain to make much difference?

[Deleted]

because you spend the bulk majority of encounters hitting a 'instant cast' button, that does very little of your actual damage. i didn't sign up for ''dps class'' to regen 70%+ of the time, and hit buttons that does dps 30% of the time. the focus regen gained on arcane shot is a joke.

they have already tried using 'arcaneshot' as a generator at one point, people hated it because it felt ''spammy'' so they removed it, guess what the majority still hates it.

not to mention that the ''new'' patient sniper is a broken, counter intuitive mess.

Honestly, I liked the arcane shot "mash button during downtime"-thing on my Brewmaster monk in WOD; It felt good to have a button you always reverted to if you had nothing else to hit, and good brewmaster DPS was pretty much based on how effectively you could fill every single global cooldown.
The issue is that this works okay for a melee spec with only instant casts; It adds to the rush of hitting something constantly, all the time, TAP TAP TAP TAP TAP.
For hunters that has to spend half the fight planted and casting, it just feel terrible going from calculated movement and casts, to frantic spamming; That's the biggest issue I've got with the playstyle. If we still had instant aimed shots, I think I'd be in love with the current playstyle; TAP TAP TAP TAP all the time, hit the biggest button available, fill all globals as well as possible. But going from fast to slow constantly just feels... Somewhat off.

These are two of the most valuable posts in this thread and I just wanted to thank you guys for finding exactly the words to decribe my feelings about my beloved class at the moment.
I really appreciate to see that I'm not alone with my opinion while reading through MMO. Hunter is just not enjoyable anymore. It's not about damage, it's about the feeling of the spec.
Let's all keep our fingers crossed that something changes until Wednesday.

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what am I meant to do in this situation:

[...]
Also, are we meant to actually watch the Paitent sniper stacks? and try to line an aimed shot up with the last split second, timing it just right so it hits just in the last second? Or is it a 'select and forget' talent? I realise it'd be a DPS gain to watch the stacks but is it enough of a gain to make much difference?

Yes it is a difference. You should not spam Aimed Shot until oof with Vulnerable - do instead try to get two Aimed Shots out as late as possible. Azor recommends waiting until ~4s left to hit in the last split second for max. damage. You'll basically achieve that by rotating an Arcane shot in before casting Aimed. This will lead to a "rotation" similar to Arcane > Marked Shot > Arcane > Aimed Shot > Aimed Shot > spam Arcane like there's no tomorrow.

Read a post from Azor where he stated that you should not aim to get three Aimed Shots into a Vulnerable window even if you could because that would lead into following Vulnerable phases where you would only be able to cast a single Aimed Shot.

[Chickensoup23]

Do the new BM buffs affect playstyle in any way? Way of the Cobra now instead of DS? Would AotB become better than KC?

Also, anyone know if there's trinket sims for NH? Can't find much on these. Probably won't beat BTI but I guess the Urn could be replaced at some point by some 905+.

[FerisFenrir]

I got the urn 875 1634agi, 1075 Mastery vs Guarm Eye 880 1712agi, 1096 haste, socket i add agi gem here which should i use ?

since the sim table doesn't include Eye 880 i don't know result
thanks

[Slicer299]

I got the urn 875 1634agi, 1075 Mastery vs Guarm Eye 880 1712agi, 1096 haste, socket i add agi gem here which should i use ?

since the sim table doesn't include Eye 880 i don't know result
thanks

They are both stat sticks, run a proper sim to get your stat weights and do the math. For example, using generic values here, lets say for you Mastery has a value of 1.1, Agi has a value of 1.0 and Haste has a value of 0.9. That would give the Urn a value of 2817.5 and your Eye a value of 2863.4 (that's assuming u use a +150 Mastery gem in the Eye).

Those generic weights put the Eye slightly ahead, but you need to seem and figure out your own stat weights. And if you're going to sim, you can just sim and see for yourself which one sims better. But knowing your weights will allow you to do on the spot evaluations to give you a rough idea if a certain piece is better than another.

The list in the guide isn't 100% accurate unless you are using the exact gear that was used to run the sims in that guide. It's just a starting point to give you an idea of what trinkets you should be trying to obtain. But you need to run your own sims to get information that will be correct for you.

[Chickensoup23]

I got the urn 875 1634agi, 1075 Mastery vs Guarm Eye 880 1712agi, 1096 haste, socket i add agi gem here which should i use ?

since the sim table doesn't include Eye 880 i don't know result
thanks

Simcraft it. As Slicer said above, it slighly edges out Urn for Marks, but it absolutely smashes it if you're BM. In both cases, use Guarm trinket.

[FerisFenrir]

They are both stat sticks, run a proper sim to get your stat weights and do the math. For example, using generic values here, lets say for you Mastery has a value of 1.1, Agi has a value of 1.0 and Haste has a value of 0.9. That would give the Urn a value of 2817.5 and your Eye a value of 2863.4 (that's assuming u use a +150 Mastery gem in the Eye).

Those generic weights put the Eye slightly ahead, but you need to seem and figure out your own stat weights. And if you're going to sim, you can just sim and see for yourself which one sims better. But knowing your weights will allow you to do on the spot evaluations to give you a rough idea if a certain piece is better than another.

The list in the guide isn't 100% accurate unless you are using the exact gear that was used to run the sims in that guide. It's just a starting point to give you an idea of what trinkets you should be trying to obtain. But you need to run your own sims to get information that will be correct for you.

thanks i sim that guarm is ahead with 2k dps

[Slicer299]

thanks i sim that guarm is ahead with 2k dps

If you are playing MM, I'd hold on to the Urn. If you you meet/exceed the 17% haste soft cap with other gear, meaning without needing the Eye equipped, the Urn should be better for you. Haste drops in value when you break that soft cap, and the Urn would probably be better in real world scenarios. Eye simming right now at 2k more is basically a toss up. It's less than 1% of the 400k+ DPS that anyone 880+ should be simming at.

[Ravenzedd]

If you are playing MM, I'd hold on to the Urn. If you you meet/exceed the 17% haste soft cap with other gear, meaning without needing the Eye equipped, the Urn should be better for you. Haste drops in value when you break that soft cap, and the Urn would probably be better in real world scenarios. Eye simming right now at 2k more is basically a toss up. It's less than 1% of the 400k+ DPS that anyone 880+ should be simming at.

You mean, the 17% haste soft cap that doesn't exist?

[FerisFenrir]

If you are playing MM, I'd hold on to the Urn. If you you meet/exceed the 17% haste soft cap with other gear, meaning without needing the Eye equipped, the Urn should be better for you. Haste drops in value when you break that soft cap, and the Urn would probably be better in real world scenarios. Eye simming right now at 2k more is basically a toss up. It's less than 1% of the 400k+ DPS that anyone 880+ should be simming at.

I am BM hunter and mastery is our best 2nd stat but sim always get guarm > urn about 2k if i swap a mas gem to agi gem in orther piece the margin is about 1k+