Hunters are crying.. but what about mages and shaman ?

[Fappy]

I run in a heroic/mythic raiding guild as a fire mage, with two hunters and a ele shaman. We had a good long qq sesh after heroic tov yesterday, the specs are honesty much worse than a week ago in terms of play style. I can't talk for ele or hunters beyond that, but my performance on my mage was very lack luster with the new meteor/mi build, and a whole lot less fun. Even if they bring the dps up to be competitive, the spec will still play terribly. The best part is we run with 2 ret palys, both with bis legendaries and their damage is stupid high, like 30-40% higher single target. Was a pretty interesting raid, lols and keks galore.

I understand blizz wanted to make other mage specs more appealing, as a vast majority of raiding mages were fire, but the answer to that problem is not to break the popular spec. Its terrible game design to make one spec too powerful relative to the others, leave it that way for 3 months, have a huge amount of players learn that spec and gear specifically for it, only to be left arbitrarily weak...especially after a gigantic amount of outcry from the ptr over months of testing. The real kicker is fire mage wasn't even that strong single target, especially without the two bus legendaries. The whole situation fosters anger and doubt towards the devs, and the game as a whole.

I don't know about you, but my ST dps went up by around 40-50k since the patch as Fire. My aoe feels about the same if not slightly nerfed, but Fire feels great right now otherwise. The hunter situation isn't at all comparable to ours. I only slightly out-gear our hunters and I blew them 1,000 miles out of the water this week.

EDIT: You also have to consider scaling. I can't speak for the other classes, but mages feel like they scale much, much better with gear than they did previously.

[fiestatastic]

I understand your argument for mages being a bit low, they are indeed, and could use a little buff.

But hunters need the buff. If you check helya there is no Survival hunter logs there, cause its utter crap on that fight. And there are only 19 survival logs up in mythic TOV atm, meaning its underrepresented and won't help anyone at all since no one got the survival legendaries etc. As a mage, you must know the feeling.

And there is so few mythic logs after 7.1.5 yet. Check out heroic as well, surv 4th last(again not enough logs), MM 3rd last, frost 2nd last and BM last.

To see fire as the best one being only in the middle on dmg is also rough, mages need to be brought up a bit, together with hunters. No doubt.

This would indicate that hunters are in an even better spot than logs show, since the only way to go is up after getting surv BiS legendaries. All of the mages that are represented in decent logs have BiS, showing that you NEED bracers to be viable.

[Deleted]

This would indicate that hunters are in an even better spot than logs show, since the only way to go is up after getting surv BiS legendaries. All of the mages that are represented in decent logs have BiS, showing that you NEED bracers to be viable.

If you sort by max percentiles, which is the best ranks, hunters don't really do bad, neither do mages, middle of the pack.

The problem is all the shitty players dragging the average down, and sadly enough there's 10x more of those than good players.

[IsaacHawke]

What about mages and shaman?
It is simple and obvious, they will answer with unsub.

[markos82]

Was with fire mage in +5 BRH he had average dps of 850k+ so i dont think fire mages are that bad

[Deleted]

Was with fire mage in +5 BRH he had average dps of 850k+ so i dont think fire mages are that bad

Dungeon. Facepalm.

[markos82]

Dungeon. Facepalm.

So, i mean not topping the list it must be you are doing horrible? Our fire mage is doing more on some fights....

[Miyagie]

Was with fire mage in +5 BRH he had average dps of 850k+ so i dont think fire mages are that bad

If you do 5+ BRH in 5-6 trash pulls you got so many small mobs that near every geared dd can do that with bis legendarys, 54 traits and trinket switching its just a aoe bombfest that say nothing about singeltarget in a mythic raid.

I also do 5 million burst dmg on big pulls with my 880GS mage (leg. chest and neck) but on hc raid bosses i can be happy if i reach 400k in the end.

[Zyky]

Checking TOV Mythic logs :
warcraftlogs.com/statistics/12#


BM and MM are low tiers. SV is mid tiers.
Fire, Arcane, Frost, elem, enhanc are low tiers.

Only MM and BM is in the state of EVERY DPS spec of Mages and Shaman.


I mean.. Hunters still have the possibility to switch to SV. I do understand that it is not acceptable for them to switch from a ranged to a melee (if hunters would have wanted to play melee they would have probably created a rogue) but still.. facts are facts.. mages and shaman are in a worst situation than hunters..


Im hearing a lot of hunters crying, asking for buff.. Mages asking for these kinds of buff during PTR were ignored or even trolled by others classes calling them the golden babies.. Check again the stats.. where is the golden baby..


I am surprise of this kind of balance with some specs toping everywhere while some are toping no where.
Read carefully : I have used the word spec not classes.
I can for example accept a pal ret first dps on guarm.. but then it shall not be mid tiers on helya (AOE) if it is SO good on ST.
I can accept a war fury top tiers on Helya (and by far).. but then not SO high on ST (guarm)
I can also accept for example an arcane mage mid tiers everywhere (but then not top or low tiers on any boss)

But right now.. some specs are bad everywhere.. while some others are good everywhere..

What do you think about this situation ? About the state of mages and shaman ? About the fact that others classes are yelling about mages as soon as they get a nerf reverted (even if as you can see these nerf reverted were clearly not enough) ?

Elemental Shaman is perfect now. They're no longer at the bottom, they're high-mid tier now. Fire Mage is also in the middle. But like I said in a few hunter threads, do I feel like all 3 specs should be on the bottom, no, but someone will always be on the bottom, but frankly its about time that its hunters and/or mages.

[Doffen]

This would indicate that hunters are in an even better spot than logs show, since the only way to go is up after getting surv BiS legendaries. All of the mages that are represented in decent logs have BiS, showing that you NEED bracers to be viable.

Ranger’s Net will no longer proc Sephuz's Secret on a target that is immune to Roots.

There, thats why surv was good. And it was whopping 35 logs with survival. And there wasnt any on helya cause survival just sucks.

And how do what I wrote indicate that hunters is in a better spot than logs show? Please enlighten me.

And there, fire mage is now above survival hunter in ToV mythic. Lets redo this whole thread :P

[Reyuna]

All the bad FOTM mages will leave now. The 10years+ mages like myself will just get on with it and prove everyone wrong. Do mages need a small buff.. probably, but those of us who can actually play are quietly pleased with the patch thus far.

[Moshots]

Checking TOV Mythic logs :
warcraftlogs.com/statistics/12#


BM and MM are low tiers. SV is mid tiers.
Fire, Arcane, Frost, elem, enhanc are low tiers.

Only MM and BM is in the state of EVERY DPS spec of Mages and Shaman.


I mean.. Hunters still have the possibility to switch to SV. I do understand that it is not acceptable for them to switch from a ranged to a melee (if hunters would have wanted to play melee they would have probably created a rogue) but still.. facts are facts.. mages and shaman are in a worst situation than hunters..


Im hearing a lot of hunters crying, asking for buff.. Mages asking for these kinds of buff during PTR were ignored or even trolled by others classes calling them the golden babies.. Check again the stats.. where is the golden baby..


I am surprise of this kind of balance with some specs toping everywhere while some are toping no where.
Read carefully : I have used the word spec not classes.
I can for example accept a pal ret first dps on guarm.. but then it shall not be mid tiers on helya (AOE) if it is SO good on ST.
I can accept a war fury top tiers on Helya (and by far).. but then not SO high on ST (guarm)
I can also accept for example an arcane mage mid tiers everywhere (but then not top or low tiers on any boss)

But right now.. some specs are bad everywhere.. while some others are good everywhere..

What do you think about this situation ? About the state of mages and shaman ? About the fact that others classes are yelling about mages as soon as they get a nerf reverted (even if as you can see these nerf reverted were clearly not enough) ?

And for EN

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/10
Fire mages still in top 5

Tov is awful because of #1 how few guilds kill helya. and #2 only 3 fights 2 that favor one type of people. and odyn Specifically fire mages are ass. they either set them on the boss 100% if they want to do any damage. and most guilds don't do that.

[Deleted]

Are you serious? Why are people even looking at EN logs. EVERY encounter in this instance apart from one can be cheesed by fire mages (and still they are not doing that well compared to other classes who can abuse mechanics and adds Say hello Affi locks and Shadows). And every fire mage does so. Dragons Cenarius Xavius and Eye are ADD encounter which no one cares about doing the way they are intended but instead are massivly cheesed every pull in benefit of fire mages. Do people think if this would be hard content and progress fire mages would be were they are now? With logs were flamestrike and DB are top damaging abilities on most fights. Just look at odyn and helya which are not getting cheesed nearly as much and are also addfightsesp helya should be a fire mages wet dream but they are not even good in that fight.
That is the problem in the first place. No one cares about content which is weeks old waaay undertuned and gets steamrolled every week. I mean who gives a shit about firemages who get cleave dragons until 4 stacks spawn and bomb extra adds which only range dd can bomb and so on. No one gives a shit about rankings for content on farm you can abuse them so hard.
BTW even nythendra can be abused by firemages with the DB helm. So its actually every encounter given you have the right legendaries

Saying TOV is awful is just ignorant. Because how few guilds killed helya. You can be sure that everyone has given their best and the encounter is played right. Not inflated by cheesing and people who are playing subpar. So if you wanna see some sort of DPS balance in the rankings you better look at guarm and helya

Edit: I am not saying fire is terrible but looking at EN logs to compare class dps balance is. That is like saying fire is op because i can do 20million+ dps on the pull in front of the opera in kara.
Also the thing most people here are not getting is most people are not shocked their class or spec is at the bottom it is dps difference to the top which has only grown with the patch.

[Paste]

The people complaining about Fire Mage 7.1.5 damage are mostly the same people still running kindling and other sub-optimal talents in raids.

[Zantos]

I mean.. Hunters still have the possibility to switch to SV. I do understand that it is not acceptable for them to switch from a ranged to a melee (if hunters would have wanted to play melee they would have probably created a rogue) but still.. facts are facts..

Do you understand this?

Any hunter who is a ranged, does Not have the option to suddenly go melee. Lets be real, raids hate melee. Especially those who offer no utility. For what ever reason, fights just Really hate melee. The more you have, the harder things get.

So no, hunters do Not have the possibility to switch to SV. If they are in a raid group, that is a non option. They may as well re-roll before thinking about going melee, because they wont have a raid spot as a melee instead of a ranged.

Other then that, hotfixes are coming at least.

[davesignal]

Good news: you whined enough to get shadow nerfed back into the ground, presumably except on fights where it can abuse S2M.

Bad news: you didn't whine enough to get mages reinstalled at the top of the DPS meters, where all mages feel entitled to be.

Y'all are losing your touch.

[Nitros14]

The logs look pretty dire for arcane. We'll see with tier bonuses and scaling I guess.

[Geldor]

Good news: you whined enough to get shadow nerfed back into the ground, presumably except on fights where it can abuse S2M.

Bad news: you didn't whine enough to get mages reinstalled at the top of the DPS meters, where all mages feel entitled to be.

Y'all are losing your touch.

Yeah sure, because Blizzard balances according to what a few mages in one thread on MMO are saying. You write something here, and bam it get's implemented.

[davesignal]

Obviously I was speaking in the collective sense; 'you' as in 'all mages, everywhere, constantly for the last week or so'.

[ssviolett]

ROFL @ hotfixes
no, really, I knew this - MAGES R FINE!