Nighthold difficulty

[antelope591]

Depends if the tuning is based on 54 traits or 35.

How can they tune it around 35 traits tho? Every guild in the top 100 has a raid full of lvl 54 raiders right now....unless they want the raid to die in 1 day like EN, which I doubt they do. Even my casual guild myself included has a lot of raiders that are 45+. It's just not logical at all to tune for anything less than 54 if we're talking about the later mythic bosses.

[xcess]

Itll have to be overtuned, this crap has to last till June. Theyll nerf norm and heroic in a month

[Tolian]

Everyone knows how to do M Odyn yet it we still wipe.

Why would you consider this to be a good thing? If people know/understand mechanics, and are executing them properly, and you are still wiping over and over again, then something is wrong with the numbers. That's not fun to most of the player base, even at the Mythic raiding level. It's one thing to wipe because derp #1 missed his portal again, or derp #2 stood in some shit and wasn't alive to pop that heal CD, but it's an entirely different thing when everyone does what they're supposed to do and you still lose.

[shaunika123]

As other have said, the retarded Legion design when it comes to gear power means that the raid will be either vastly undertuned, or vastly overtuned, or a mix of overtuned and undertuned.
It's just not possible to tune a raid adequately with something like a 30 % in power variance.

you mean like ~10% right? cos anyone who wants to enter mythic NH has to have at least 35 by now, i got that on my alt druid and i literally do nothing but a +12 for the chest every week.

i'd be surprised if guldan wasnt tuned for 54 points, since by the time guilds get to him, most of them WILL have 54 points, simply due to how the instance works

if you're a top 20 guild you alread got 54 points so you'll get there faster, and if you're not you'll get there slower and thus have more time to get it.

it's really not that hard to farm it, you can get like a million AP on avg a day with barely more than an hours work

[Deleted]

Its all about the necessary time required for the firstkill. More traits results in less tries. Guldan is still possible even at lower avg trait levels in raid groups but it will definitely consume much more time in training/practise. This counts also for group setup (stacking etc.) and gear quality (not only ilvl but also best stats and ofc the legs). The biggest factor (75%) is still the player behind the screen :-).

[Spotnick]

How can they tune it around 35 traits tho? Every guild in the top 100 has a raid full of lvl 54 raiders right now....unless they want the raid to die in 1 day like EN, which I doubt they do. Even my casual guild myself included has a lot of raiders that are 45+. It's just not logical at all to tune for anything less than 54 if we're talking about the later mythic bosses.

You never know with Blizzard.. they said at Blizzcon it would be tuned for people having *one* legendary.

[Relapses]

Hope they're all as tough as m xavius.

Whoa, let's not get ahead of ourselves. We want the Mythic progression race to last at least three hours.

[Deleted]

If mythic is tuned for 54- it will be so undertuned, everyone has one even two specs on 54.

[Deleted]

You're making fuss about nothing. Without ANY kind of grind (just doind wqs every three days) you easily have 42 points til nighthold. So we're talking about a 6% power increase, but that's not really a 6% increase, since every further point after 35 gives less than 0,5% overall.

Also tuning only matters for mythic, later bosses will be tuned around 54 traits since (semi)hardcore guilds easily have 54 traits til nighthold release. Less hardcore guilds with less raiding hours will generally reach said bosses a few weeks delayed (and will have more time to get max traits).


Blizzard showed they can balance bosses just fine even in a world with insane dps legendaries (that had a WAY WAY bigger impact on overall raid dps than the trait differences now) with ToV mythic. Only bad omen could be the crybabies that say they want hard content but then mythic helya reks them and they cry for quick nerfs.

So ToV mythic difficulty for start and first 4-6 weeks - then bring in the nerfs for those folks.

[Deleted]

Nighthold mythic will be impossible to balance due to the state of AP in its current form, especially the last few bosses. You either tune Guldan around 54 traits and any guild that doesn't have 90% of their raid there fights the numbers boss and not the encounter or they tune it for 40/45 and then any raid that has 54 traits for 90% will stomp it.

Normal and heroic will probably be tuned around having 30/35 traits respectively and roughly 870/880 ilvl.

I'd say look at your rosters AP level and ilvl and base it off that. If your whole raidteam is 880+ and 35+ traits i'd just jump in to heroic.

If you're progressing mythic at a decent rank the majority of the raiders in your guild should be 50+ by now. So being 54 for Gul'dan is a moot point. If your guild isn't pushing top ranks then it doesn't matter how Gul'dan is tuned, by the time you reach him he will have already been nerfed, you'll have two 940 legendarys and depending how long you take to reach him you might be 54 when you hit him anyway.

[Nuckels]

If you're progressing mythic at a decent rank the majority of the raiders in your guild should be 50+ by now. So being 54 for Gul'dan is a moot point. If your guild isn't pushing top ranks then it doesn't matter how Gul'dan is tuned, by the time you reach him he will have already been nerfed, you'll have two 940 legendarys and depending how long you take to reach him you might be 54 when you hit him anyway.

If nerfed then yes my point is moot, if not then its not.

[Deleted]

Why would you consider this to be a good thing? If people know/understand mechanics, and are executing them properly, and you are still wiping over and over again, then something is wrong with the numbers. That's not fun to most of the player base, even at the Mythic raiding level. It's one thing to wipe because derp #1 missed his portal again, or derp #2 stood in some shit and wasn't alive to pop that heal CD, but it's an entirely different thing when everyone does what they're supposed to do and you still lose.

If you're lacking DPS to kill a boss then the DPS haven't done what they are supposed to. The whole point in WoW raiding as a DPS is to do mechanics while outputting the maximum amount of DPS possible. If your raiders can't make the DPS check while doing mechanics then mythic raiding isn't for you.

[Saiona]

Tov was a good challenge we got odyn but only 2% on guarm ; (

[Halobob87]

Why would you consider this to be a good thing? If people know/understand mechanics, and are executing them properly, and you are still wiping over and over again, then something is wrong with the numbers. That's not fun to most of the player base, even at the Mythic raiding level. It's one thing to wipe because derp #1 missed his portal again, or derp #2 stood in some shit and wasn't alive to pop that heal CD, but it's an entirely different thing when everyone does what they're supposed to do and you still lose.

If everyone in your raid is executing the strat perfectly, and are still wipe on Odyn post nerf, your raid really have some really bad dps (or healers).
Mythic is not meant to be accessible for everyone.

[Moshots]

I have the feeling that its going to be a shit show for us plebs. All top guilds will have a roster of people with 54 traits and blizzard will tune the raid for them.

Mythic Guldan will be tuned for 54 traits and atleast 1 BIS legendary.

Heroic probably 35 traits.

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Nighthold mythic will be impossible to balance due to the state of AP in its current form, especially the last few bosses. You either tune Guldan around 54 traits and any guild that doesn't have 90% of their raid there fights the numbers boss and not the encounter or they tune it for 40/45 and then any raid that has 54 traits for 90% will stomp it.

Normal and heroic will probably be tuned around having 30/35 traits respectively and roughly 870/880 ilvl.

I'd say look at your rosters AP level and ilvl and base it off that. If your whole raidteam is 880+ and 35+ traits i'd just jump in to heroic.

First off if your a guild that doesn't have the majority of its raiders already at 45+ your probably not the kind of guild that will see Mythic Guldan for a long time...

Second if you are this kind of guild you will have 10 clears of NH to get BIS gear and AP before ever seeing Guldan..

3rd the diffference between 44 and 54 is only 5% damage... If you have even 2-3 extra clears the gear/trinkets/Relics alone will make up for not having people 54 compared to the First guilds that will kill this after 1 clear.

[Hctaz]

Mythic Guldan will be tuned for 54 traits and atleast 1 BIS legendary.

Heroic probably 35 traits.

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First off if your a guild that doesn't have the majority of its raiders already at 45+ your probably not the kind of guild that will see Mythic Guldan for a long time...

Second if you are this kind of guild you will have 10 clears of NH to get BIS gear and AP before ever seeing Guldan..

3rd the diffference between 44 and 54 is only 5% damage... If you have even 2-3 extra clears the gear/trinkets/Relics alone will make up for not having people 54 compared to the First guilds that will kill this after 1 clear.

I mean my guild is 7/7m 2/3m and I only have 36 traits in my weapon...

[shaunika123]

Blizzard showed they can balance bosses just fine even in a world with insane dps legendaries (that had a WAY WAY bigger impact on overall raid dps than the trait differences now) with ToV mythic. Only bad omen could be the crybabies that say they want hard content but then mythic helya reks them and they cry for quick nerfs.

as someone whO's killed M helya(post nerf) and has like 300 wipes on her prenerf, i can safely tell you that she was indeed overtuned not just cos it was "hard", but the sheer raidcomp requirement for it was ridiculous as well, when every single shadowpriest you put in the comp makes it 20 pull less and every melee makes it 20 pull more there are problems, the best raidcomp for that fight was literally 0 melee, that's not okay.

i agree with you that the rest of ToV was tuned fine prenerf tho

but saying that the whines about helya being overtuned are invald cos people cried about EN being undertuned is not really a proper argument, there can be a middle ground.

i wouldnt be surprised if helya ended up being the hardest boss in the entire expansion tbh

[Adlian]

Mythic Guldan will be similar to Mythic Helya pre nerf. Rest should be similar to Odyn and Guarm.

[Tatahe]

You should skip normal. Firsts 9 bosses on heroic should be pretty ez for any 7/7M 2/3M guild imo.

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Mythic Guldan will be similar to Mythic Helya pre nerf. Rest should be similar to Odyn and Guarm.

There is 0% chance they make another Helya. That was not just hard. Was overtunned and poorly designed for any non hardcore guild...

[Moshots]

You should skip normal. Firsts 9 bosses on heroic should be pretty ez for any 7/7M 2/3M guild imo.

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There is 0% chance they make another Helya. That was not just hard. Was overtunned and poorly designed for any non hardcore guild...

You should never skip normal... Even Progression guild will do 1-4 clears of split normals. normal is still 875 tier gear... I'd drop 10 ilvl on 4 pieces to gain 10% damage right now easily.....

and as to helya It was released 2 weeks too early. If it had been released a few weeks later it was fine... Its only a 300 pull boss once everyone in raid has 40+talents. its just guilds were barely hitting 35 when it came out... Its on par with Archimonde.