Have you seen the sims? JEEEEESUS

[Fabinas]

There are a dozen ways they could have done them that would have made them work imo.

a) Purely throughput, though even then you're going to have painful disparities - probably not much of an improvement

b) Purely utility, still bound to get some that are better than others, but I know I find things like the corruption slow ring both the most interesting and least desirable. Wouldn't be balanced, but would probably be more interesting and allow you to find niches for your unique, player utility as opposed to feeling you're an arbitrary % behind people because of crap legendary drops. Being an affliction warlock that has essentially got Curse of Exhaustion back probably feel a lot better / more impactful than a hat that makes agony do more, but when there's output v utility you know which one you want.

c) Cosmetic - this is what I'd thought legendaries should have been for years now. When I got the Firelands staff I was just glad I'd finally got the 10% damage I felt I was docked before I got it and the dragon transform was probably more interesting than the effect. I think the green fire quest was a fantastic template for future legendaries, cosmetic items or spell effects that don't break performance, but look and feel far better than a set of bracers that trigger a buff.

d) The current system, but with less of a fractured pool for pure dpsers - having legendaries work across all three dps specs would be a Godsend - either through making them cross-spec effects like the demonology bracers or by making the effect change like tier bonuses do when you swap specs.

Instead we seem to have ended up in a pretty unsavory world where you're left fishing for legendaries from a pool tainted by zero-dps increases or massive disparities, where you're lucky if they function in most circumstances for your mainspec, let alone any other spec you'd like / need to play as balance changes or content dictates.

The old legendaries were (almost) a static dps increase. Instead of making legendaries the new (extra) talents or glyphs, they should have gone the static dmg increase way. "Buffs X spell by Y%". That would allow players to shift playstyle to favor a certain spell and would allow balancing of those legendaries with just a value change. Much like Odr is. Too bad they used Wreak Havoc there, because that just enhances our cleave niche, instead of making Wreak Havoc work differently.

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They're a bad idea, what, have super-powerful drop randomly from any content level, including emissary chests and Blingtron packagaes?

They have to be powerful or they wouldn't feel "legendary". Powerful to most people means damage. If you had all utility ones you'd still end up with good and bad ones, and you'd still get very significant ilevel upgrades from random drops that would be totally unrelated to the level of difficulty they dropped from - as in you will be able to get a 940 level item from a normal dungeon. Yes, the chances rise as the difficulty rises, but it's still possible.

Th eirony is that all of the issues with legendaries were predicted the moment the devs announced them and how the system would work, the only real issue is that it took three or four months of all that proving right for the devs to finally admit the players had got it dead to rights in the first place.

Thing is, they do NOT trust the minority that alpha/beta testers are (compared to their playerbase). It seems like they prefer their live statistics (which give a more accurate image of what their player majority actually does, number wise) and they decide tuning according to that. Personally, i see no reason to participate in beta testing, especially in large overhauls like Legion was, because the info is so much and so overwhelming, they will have to ignore most of it anyway, unless it's an eye gouging discrepancy they can verify in an instant.

[noaim]

I think the new trinkets are good examples of what the legendaries should have been from the beginning. Static dps, usable by all specs. For example, hood of eternal agony could increase damage by incinerate, drain soul and shadow/demonbolt by X%, with a different number for each spec, depending on how powerful the ability it affects is baseline. Would be very easy to make it roughly equal for all specs and wouldnt make changing spec feels so punishing.

[Baconeggcheese]

Personally, i see no reason to participate in beta testing, especially in large overhauls like Legion was, because the info is so much and so overwhelming, they will have to ignore most of it anyway, unless it's an eye gouging discrepancy they can verify in an instant.

Alpha was good, lots of change based directly on feedback etc etc. Beta is usually a polishing phase, so many people completely ignore alpha when all the change is happening then hop in during the beta and only start giving feedback then when blizzard is already in finalize and get this thing ready for launch! mode and then wonder why blizzard isn't making large sweeping changes based on feedback.

You then get these people who say blizzard ignores all feedback, despite blizzard very clearly having listened to feedback.

[Valkaneer]

Alpha was good, lots of change based directly on feedback etc etc. Beta is usually a polishing phase, so many people completely ignore alpha when all the change is happening then hop in during the beta and only start giving feedback then when blizzard is already in finalize and get this thing ready for launch! mode and then wonder why blizzard isn't making large sweeping changes based on feedback.

You then get these people who say blizzard ignores all feedback, despite blizzard very clearly having listened to feedback.

When you only invite fanbois to Alpha that is what you get, and that is what Blizzard does every time. All of the people who sing their praises and have huge youtube channles get the invites. Problem is most of the time these people are the ones that think everything blizzard has ever done is wonderful, and they circle the wagon and tell eveyone how great the new content is.

[Gaidax]

When you only invite fanbois to Alpha that is what you get, and that is what Blizzard does every time. All of the people who sing their praises and have huge youtube channles get the invites. Problem is most of the time these people are the ones that think everything blizzard has ever done is wonderful, and they circle the wagon and tell eveyone how great the new content is.

As opposed to people who think that everything is shit and Blizzard commits intentional crimes against humanity with everything they do, which apparently would give a wonderful feedback in Alpha, despite being incapable of doing so here.

Not even sure why you even bring this, I personally got invited with my guild because I cleared Mythic HFC before the invite wave, does that suddenly makes me and my guild a bunch of fanbois?

[Baconeggcheese]

When you only invite fanbois to Alpha that is what you get, and that is what Blizzard does every time. All of the people who sing their praises and have huge youtube channles get the invites. Problem is most of the time these people are the ones that think everything blizzard has ever done is wonderful, and they circle the wagon and tell eveyone how great the new content is.

They do a mix, yes the youtubers get invited but everyone who killed mythic archimonde within a certain time frame for instance got an invite as well. That means all of the top raiders and then some in the world were in the alpha, which are not a group of "fanbois". There are also some amount of random invites that go out as well.

Saying its just a bunch of fanbois is disingenuous or just flat out ignorance. And even if they did, it wouldn't excuse people from seeing the changes made and commenting on them based on what's on paper which is something you can very realistically do if you have a baseline understanding of the spec you're looking at.

The issue is people don't pay ANY attention AT ALL during alpha and give no feedback and then only start to give feedback when things are finalized. They then go on to cry foul and pretend like blizzard never listens to feedback, not understanding that they decided to give feedback in the wrap up phase.

[Turturin the Warlock]

When you only invite fanbois to Alpha that is what you get, and that is what Blizzard does every time. All of the people who sing their praises and have huge youtube channles get the invites. Problem is most of the time these people are the ones that think everything blizzard has ever done is wonderful, and they circle the wagon and tell eveyone how great the new content is.

I was in alpha. I don't have a big you tube or twitch following and I'm not a fan boy. I think your generalization is uninformed and idiotic

[Valkaneer]

As opposed to people who think that everything is shit and Blizzard commits intentional crimes against humanity with everything they do, which apparently would give a wonderful feedback in Alpha, despite being incapable of doing so here.

Not even sure why you even bring this, I personally got invited with my guild because I cleared Mythic HFC before the invite wave, does that suddenly makes me and my guild a bunch of fanbois?

I bring it up because it's who blizzard listens to. They invite a majority of the people they like, and get a response they like. Alpha is not nearly as random as beta, they pick and chose who they want. Yes not eveyone was a fanboi, but you should know it's only the fanboi's that matter. I think it has become clear in most cases that we were not there in beta to give feed back.

Crimes aginst humanity no, but all blizzards does it retweet the fanboi's comments. I don't know how many times in Beta the fanbois would come in and dispute every single critisims as unfounded, and the ever popular "wait till release" , "it's beta", "it won't go live", "next patch" etc etc etc. It was always the fanboi's that fought back, not the normal level headed person that uses reason and logic to debatet the topic.

Tell me why is it that Blizzard only responded to warlocks after Pyromancers decided he had to step in and petiton the Devs? They had no intention of fixing lock till after 7.2, Ion said they had no plans for locks. That was before Pyromancers petiton. I have watched time and time again in Beta etc, the majority time blizzard seems to engage in discourse that results in a change is if people like Binkenstine, twin tops, Kuma and on have something to say. (not saying they are fanboi's, but they don't take normal ppls feedback).

Look at how bad the classes were balanced and how badly they worked, as it has been said before Blizzard gave us a beautiful race track and a clunker car to drive with. This was true of most classes, but if you brought it up in beta etc you were flamed hard for it. Now everyone is complaining about how bad class designe is. My point was only the fanbois that blizzard hand picked mattered, and when you do that you end up with feedback where people are not really concerned with polished smoth builds and play. They thought it was great as packaged.

[Gaidax]

I bring it up because it's who blizzard listens to. They invite a majority of the people they like, and get a response they like. Alpha is not nearly as random as beta, they pick and chose who they want. Yes not eveyone was a fanboi, but you should know it's only the fanboi's that matter. I think it has become clear in most cases that we were not there in beta to give feed back.

You are delusional.

You think everyone in alpha was only interested in praising Blizzard and propping their stream subs? Plenty of people who were invited were Mythic Raiders and damn, you bet we were bloody interested in making sure our class does not suck and there were MANY changes done because people rose up and told Blizzard that X is shit.

Yes, not EVERYTHING got changed, but I, as one who was in Alpha, can assure you that what we got in our hands day one and what you got in your hands at launch is different, specifically because of the feedback given.

Yes, not everything was done and some feedback was wrong in hindsight because what people thought will be right turned out shit AND some changes we asked for ALSO ended up bad ideas (DE spam for Demo for example, which evolved from skill on charges and CD that boosted 2 of your most powerful demons instead and was not spammed as fuck initially), but a lot of good changes came through as well and most importantly,

Do not pretend that Alpha testers were not interested in good of the class, it's nonsense, even loudmouth youtubers often are warming up to a class or two they main and sure as hell nobody was interested in having their class choice suck or deliberately sabotaging feedback.

---

If you think you would do a better job, then you know what? No you wouldn't - you are just yet another dude who waltzes in and thinks that he is some sort of genius with a plan, while all people in alpha were a bunch of tards that can't figure right from left. It's easy to be a smartass now after months the thing is out and everyone knows everything, back then it was much more dynamic and difficult to figure out, professor.

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The real problem was, IMO, that Blizzard tried to do EVERYTHING at once, which is absolutely crazy undertaking. Honestly it's a miracle that the thing even works, because it's insane.

[sd2400533]

Our specs relative to each other haven't really changed. Aff and destro got ST bumps, demo is still technically the top ST spec but its issues with movement will likely make aff competitive with it. Outside of that nothing else has changed in relation to each other, destro stomps aff in 2 target, aff needs 3 targets to do destro's 2 target dmg. Aff is still our strongest sustained aoe spec, demo burst aoe, destro meh aoe.

I feel very comfortable having put my points into my destro weapon. Apparently most of the top 10 world warlocks did as well skimming wowprogress, though its totally possible to have 54 points in 2 weapons right now though so we'll see if people start dual speccing a bit more.

You are right, except the ST buffs are much better for Aff, and Destro with its maintenance buff and RB performing better than BD, it has become the least fun spec to play, also the worst performing spec overall for warlock. The fight has to be excatly two targets for Destro to excel, with no trash, no thrid target, good luck getting a boss like that.....I really like Destro, i am just fustrated and absoutly hate that reality has become like this.

[Gaidax]

You are right, except the ST buffs are much better for Aff, and Destro with its maintenance buff and RB performing better than BD, it has become the least fun spec to play, also the worst performing spec overall for warlock. The fight has to be excatly two targets for Destro to excel, with no trash, no thrid target, good luck getting a boss like that.....I really like Destro, i am just fustrated and absoutly hate that reality has become like this.

Don't use RB if you don't like it, it's not mandatory in slightest, heck you could get away with not using ELT too, really, although I fail to see the challenge in tapping once per 20 seconds.

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That said, I think this ELT or Life Tap being a thing was certainly unnecessary.

[Lucrece]

They do a mix, yes the youtubers get invited but everyone who killed mythic archimonde within a certain time frame for instance got an invite as well. That means all of the top raiders and then some in the world were in the alpha, which are not a group of "fanbois". There are also some amount of random invites that go out as well.

Saying its just a bunch of fanbois is disingenuous or just flat out ignorance. And even if they did, it wouldn't excuse people from seeing the changes made and commenting on them based on what's on paper which is something you can very realistically do if you have a baseline understanding of the spec you're looking at.

The issue is people don't pay ANY attention AT ALL during alpha and give no feedback and then only start to give feedback when things are finalized. They then go on to cry foul and pretend like blizzard never listens to feedback, not understanding that they decided to give feedback in the wrap up phase.

To point out, they invited Preach Gaming to alpha, a fairly prominent youtuber.....


And he proceeded to thrash affliction and balance druids in terms of gameplay degeneracy.

Then we had Binkenstein and Naesam as prominent ele shaman voice, once again offering ample criticism.

Feral druids were quite vocal in alpha, with the most popular feral players, Pawketz and Tinderhoof, one stating openly he was rerolling to demonhunter because of the flaw with feral and the other quitting.

So just because someone is prominent doesn't mean the alpha forums were composed of sunshine and rainbows.

Let's be honest, alpha had some of the most quality feedback we've had in recent xpacs. What Blizzard chose to do for each spec is another matter (some were good, some were bad, some were whatever; the usual), but it cannot be blamed on the players.

And Blizzard tries for what it's worth. Look at Windwalker monks and the drastic changes Storm, Earth and Fire went through, and how much it's been shaped by feedback for the better.

[Fabinas]

Alpha was good, lots of change based directly on feedback etc etc. Beta is usually a polishing phase, so many people completely ignore alpha when all the change is happening then hop in during the beta and only start giving feedback then when blizzard is already in finalize and get this thing ready for launch! mode and then wonder why blizzard isn't making large sweeping changes based on feedback.

You then get these people who say blizzard ignores all feedback, despite blizzard very clearly having listened to feedback.

I remember that you stated they listen to a lot of feedback during the alpha stage. Don't plan to doubt you, you were there, i wasn't. Thing is. beta lasted longer than alpha, had more people invited and the game in a more finalised version where polish should happen. If they don't make meaningful changes in beta where due, no reason to have it (except server stability issues, general gameplay etc, but we aint discussing those). And instead of polish we get an affliction artifact broken on 2 of its gold traits, legendary concerns ignored etc. I understand they want to go and try their own design ideas and schemes, but especially the legendary issue (which is the reason i brought the beta up) was a ship sailing for the iceberg.

[Deleted]

The issue is people don't pay ANY attention AT ALL during alpha and give no feedback and then only start to give feedback when things are finalized. They then go on to cry foul and pretend like blizzard never listens to feedback, not understanding that they decided to give feedback in the wrap up phase.

Can't really comment on post-MOP/WOD (but mostly MOP) development, but during that expansion's alpha / beta, the amount of feedback that was given and seemed to fall on completely deaf ears was astounding - I gave up after that, but what I heard from other people who were apparently still trying, WOD wasn't much different and the way Celestalon replied to some complaints about the class design certainly gave me the impression they still just weren't listening, didn't care or didn't understand. Has seemed easier to just not bother and let them do whatever they want and try to make the best of it.

That said, I'm tempted to say Legion is looking better in terms of both willingness to make tweaks and trying to listen to player feedback, though things like SE / ILT / Ember removal / Affliction launch state makes me wonder. I've pretty conflicted feelings though, I look at destruction and it feels like it's gotten far worse in terms of QOL, but I'm enjoying the spec a fair bit this patch - I'm tempted to say more, probably because I feel like forced to hard-spec into AOE / ST with the talent swaps.

[Count Zero]

Can't really comment on post-MOP/WOD (but mostly MOP) development, but during that expansion's alpha / beta, the amount of feedback that was given and seemed to fall on completely deaf ears was astounding - I gave up after that, but what I heard from other people who were apparently still trying, WOD wasn't much different and the way Celestalon replied to some complaints about the class design certainly gave me the impression they still just weren't listening, didn't care or didn't understand. Has seemed easier to just not bother and let them do whatever they want and try to make the best of it.

That said, I'm tempted to say Legion is looking better in terms of both willingness to make tweaks and trying to listen to player feedback, though things like SE / ILT / Ember removal / Affliction launch state makes me wonder. I've pretty conflicted feelings though, I look at destruction and it feels like it's gotten far worse in terms of QOL, but I'm enjoying the spec a fair bit this patch - I'm tempted to say more, probably because I feel like forced to hard-spec into AOE / ST with the talent swaps.

Something that I didn't think would concern me, that actually is starting to concern me ... is that Celestalon uses a graphics tablet instead of a mouse. The more I think about it, the more I wonder just how different his very perception of how this game plays is from the rest of us who use a mouse. He posted some video of him playing Diablo with it that I haven't watched yet, but I don't play Diablo so that would be meaningless to me.

And it's not just that he plays in a fundamentally different way than probably 99% of the playerbase, it's just that he's 100% dismissive of any concerns anyone has over it. Again, I'm not saying it is a problem - and you know maybe considering I don't really know anything about graphics tablets maybe my growing concern is misplaced. But I think it's fair to say that way more players have my knowledge of graphics tablets as mice than have Celestalon's level of knowledge in that area.

He seems like a classic IT guy stereotype - brilliant with computers but little to no concept that most people don't speak the same "language" they do, and seems to think what we're complaining about is more a problem with the user than with the coding.

This comes off as a lot more bitter/angry than I actually am.

[Lucrece]

I'm pretty sure Celestalon is familiar with playing in multiple formats, that's hardly the issue. The bad ideas like removing reverse entropy QoL and making Life Tap a thing and the massive mana consumption on affliction and demo leading to life tap during heroism openers is more of the issue.

Rain of Fire, Starfall, all those ramp up aoe's casters are stuck with if they're not a mage are all bad ideas in a game where other classes can just press a button and do massively more aoe damage in a burst window and still come out even or above in sustained aoe.

Doomguard as a DPS cd balanced around a talent that makes it permanent is a bad idea.

Service/Doomguard costing shards is a bad idea (again, more ramp up and opportunity cost to using DPS cd's where for other classes it's FREE).

Lord of Flames/Sindorei Spite obnoxious interaction with grimoire of supremacy is a bad idea.

The pruning of several warlock baseline abilities to make them competing talents in an expansion where other classes got brand new talent rows and abilities is a bad idea.

Healthstones healing for less than health pots when heroism is better than drums is a bad idea.

Focus on the ideas, not quirky rumors.

[Count Zero]

Focus on the ideas, not quirky rumors.

Two things: One - it's not a rumor, he's spoken about it. Two - the post was less about him just using one, but more about how he's completely dismissive of concerns that his experience of the game is wildly different than most players' experiences of the game, and how that speaks to their general design philosophy under his leadership (when there are weeks or even months of feedback on poorly-received ideas that still make it to live ... I can't really say whether Blizz has been worse or better in this regard under his influence, but it seems to be a running theme on forums)

[Gaidax]

I'm pretty sure Celestalon is familiar with playing in multiple formats, that's hardly the issue. The bad ideas like removing reverse entropy QoL and making Life Tap a thing and the massive mana consumption on affliction and demo leading to life tap during heroism openers is more of the issue.

Rain of Fire, Starfall, all those ramp up aoe's casters are stuck with if they're not a mage are all bad ideas in a game where other classes can just press a button and do massively more aoe damage in a burst window and still come out even or above in sustained aoe.

Doomguard as a DPS cd balanced around a talent that makes it permanent is a bad idea.

Service/Doomguard costing shards is a bad idea (again, more ramp up and opportunity cost to using DPS cd's where for other classes it's FREE).

Lord of Flames/Sindorei Spite obnoxious interaction with grimoire of supremacy is a bad idea.

The pruning of several warlock baseline abilities to make them competing talents in an expansion where other classes got brand new talent rows and abilities is a bad idea.

Healthstones healing for less than health pots when heroism is better than drums is a bad idea.

Focus on the ideas, not quirky rumors.

But then if you will have everyone get AoE bursts out of wazoo and give everyone reskinned Arcane Power, then you will have people screaming "Homogenization!" or "Destruction feels like fire mage!" or "Boooorriiing gief moar battanz" like it was back in the day.

There should be a difference, it is actually fine, you could say that execution is lacking here and there, but the idea of Warlock having a fatass Demon as a DPS CD, for example, is not bad as long as it is done right and same is with some specs having better X but worse Y, as long as it is fair enough. For example, would you be complaining if Lord of Flames would just passively change Summon Infernal to summon 4 Infernals at all times? I sure would not and it would make both beast and awesome CD, which it is, even if it's not some stat/damage buff.

Some things you listed are simply a causality of necessary changes, like Lord of Flames interaction with Supremacy, which may look bad, but the reality is the change community asked for is to tie the ability to Summon Infernal and well we got exactly what we asked for as Alpha/Beta players, Supremacy kinda screws that, so meh and complaining about things like instant that deals 3 million to gazillion damage as a 3 min CD costing a shard is also just nitpicking really.

Healthstones, yeah, no idea what's up with that, as for pruning - we got plenty new abilities as well replacing what was gone and those are some kickass additions.


Of course not everything is rosy, but it takes time, just like I keep telling you people for months now - every new patch will give improvements and in the end it will be just fine, it's already damn fine, despite rough edges in each spec that will get smoothed out in the end, so people should concentrate on trying to improve what we have, not crying murder at everything, sensible feedback works as 7.1.5 shows, even if some stuff still makes people cringe, but plenty of what we have is actually good.

[Liarparadox]

Of course not everything is rosy, but it takes time, just like I keep telling you people for months now - every new patch will give improvements and in the end it will be just fine, it's already damn fine, despite rough edges in each spec that will get smoothed out in the end, so people should concentrate on trying to improve what we have, not crying murder at everything, sensible feedback works as 7.1.5 shows, even if some stuff still makes people cringe, but plenty of what we have is actually good.

This tends to be true, not of every class/spec; but true I think of locks for the most part. We really do tend to end up in good condition. I don't really like it in a sense because I want insta-excellence from Blizzard (who doesn't?). But it's seriously hard to be upset right now with all the improvements this patch. I get that destro got clunkier/unintuitive/high maintenance for optimal play; but I really don't think it's all that bad. Maybe that's because i've been playing RB the whole time (disregarding those who don't like it, I can't understand what's so difficult about this gameplay; I've always loved "empowering dots", so it sorta reminds me of snapshotting). I hate life tapping, but oh well. I don't like our 100 tier choices. I don't like the nerf to destro bracers, and I really don't like the nerf to sacrifice. I don't like Demo at all; the gameplay is dogshit imo (I can't think of any gameplay of lock in its entire history that i dislike more than the current demo; it's so boring). I can go on, but I just can't be upset because it seems to me we are heading in the right direction. Not all rosy, as written above; but I'm having fun with the changes so far and can't wait for NH on my lock.

[Lucrece]

But then if you will have everyone get AoE bursts out of wazoo and give everyone reskinned Arcane Power, then you will have people screaming "Homogenization!" or "Destruction feels like fire mage!" or "Boooorriiing gief moar battanz" like it was back in the day.

There should be a difference, it is actually fine, you could say that execution is lacking here and there, but the idea of Warlock having a fatass Demon as a DPS CD, for example, is not bad as long as it is done right and same is with some specs having better X but worse Y, as long as it is fair enough. For example, would you be complaining if Lord of Flames would just passively change Summon Infernal to summon 4 Infernals at all times? I sure would not and it would make both beast and awesome CD, which it is, even if it's not some stat/damage buff.

Some things you listed are simply a causality of necessary changes, like Lord of Flames interaction with Supremacy, which may look bad, but the reality is the change community asked for is to tie the ability to Summon Infernal and well we got exactly what we asked for as Alpha/Beta players, Supremacy kinda screws that, so meh and complaining about things like instant that deals 3 million to gazillion damage as a 3 min CD costing a shard is also just nitpicking really.

Healthstones, yeah, no idea what's up with that, as for pruning - we got plenty new abilities as well replacing what was gone and those are some kickass additions.


Of course not everything is rosy, but it takes time, just like I keep telling you people for months now - every new patch will give improvements and in the end it will be just fine, it's already damn fine, despite rough edges in each spec that will get smoothed out in the end, so people should concentrate on trying to improve what we have, not crying murder at everything, sensible feedback works as 7.1.5 shows, even if some stuff still makes people cringe, but plenty of what we have is actually good.

Yeah, I think warlock and monk and demonhunter are a perfect example of the iterative process working. Ferals sadly not so much, but not everyone can be a winner.

Personally, I would rather have sindorei spite be an active tied to the item just like engineer helm and Lord of Flames being an activation button of its own. I'm not afraid of more buttons.

I also don't mind the doomguard as a dps cd. My main problem is that it's held back precisely because of grimoire of supremacy and how they have to apply special modifiers for different versions, and then it gets into even trickier territory with some legendaries like the demo ring which reduce its cd so it needs to be a relatively weak cd to accommodate that if they won't nerf the ring itself.

Then there is also the fact it's a guardian AI and guardian AI is just bad. It's sloppy at target switching if you don't have supremacy, for example.

I'm pretty sure Blizzard would also help quiet some warlocks down if they got around to actually updating us graphically instead of giving mages even more animation updates than they got ;>