Blizzard is absolutely terrible at balancing: point of a PTR?

[stigz]

Then why is the game not balanced? WoW only has 12 classes, you seriously think they aren't capable of balancing them? Use common sense...

Think you quoted the wrong person

[Grimlokh]

So...if blizz makes changes they're awful..if blizz don't make them..they're awful. If blizz releases wod..is shit and there's nothing to do. If blizz releases legion..now there's to much grind to do (in a MMO!!! Shocking!!). If blizz releases one raid every two months..they're lazy because they're gating content. If blizz releases one rad every four months they're lazy
we are sure you know how much time does it take to the art team or dev to do things. We know you would've done way better. you guys should spens your energies in playing other games. im sure you'll rock

[Deleted]

So...if blizz makes changes they're awful..if blizz don't make them..they're awful. If blizz releases wod..is shit and there's nothing to do. If blizz releases legion..now there's to much grind to do (in a MMO!!! Shocking!!). If blizz releases one raid every two months..they're lazy because they're gating content. If blizz releases one rad every four months they're lazy
we are sure you know how much time does it take to the art team or dev to do things. We know you would've done way better. you guys should spens your energies in playing other games. im sure you'll rock

I think this thread is about numerical changes to the system. The "balancing" of the specs in relation to each others. Not about the stuff you took up, even though I understand the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" aspect.

[Ulfric Trumpcloak]

Think you quoted the wrong person

Nope, i guess you did then. Just look at your previous posts.

[Dangg]

So...if blizz makes changes they're awful..if blizz don't make them..they're awful.

Yes, you got that right. If Blizzard makes changes which are awful they are awful. If they would make changes which are good, nobody would complain.

Honestly I have no idea how delusional someone can be to defend what they did to Hunter, with the reasoning 'Well at least they made changes!!!'.

[Deleted]

In my mind balancing is so easy..
look at wowlogs, look the averenge data for any fight ( eg. add heavy fights like helya/eye .. ST like ursoc guarm )
Look at 75 parses which is quite fair because its not influated by lucky rolls.

If there is a class doing too well on ST just nerf ONE singletarget skill by a certain % which brings it a bit more to the middle.
Do the same for AoE fights, nerf or buff a aoe skill by a certain amount.

Cant be that hard or am i wrong?

[Daan]

Maybe because there was almost no Druid changes? As usual "they're happy about Druids".
Zzzz.

No Feral is happy about Feral, but Blizzard doesn't care.

[Deleted]

No Feral is happy about Feral, but Blizzard doesn't care.

Seems fairly middle of the pack tbh. Better than most.
In all seriousness I think Blizzard did well to leave druids alone. Guardian needed slight nerfs, but that's it.

[MasterOfNone]

I thought this was what we wanted? Rapid changes and adapting to our playstyle and feedback?
And now we should go back to not having any changes until 8.0?

Can we make up our minds?

there is no middle ground. too many knee jerk reactions from blizzard and players. its called leaving well enough alone

[FelPlague]

Yeah, so sad no way to simulate those combinations.....ohh wait...

and balancing those, so the ones that are harder arer slightly better, the ones that are easier are slightly weaker, and that ones made for some fgihts arnt super op for other fights...

as he said 2,187 talent combos
now pair that with about 5-6 differant types of fights, and differant teirs/trinkets.... you have ALOT of work ahead of you,i dare you to even attempt it

- - - Updated - - -

In my mind balancing is so easy..
look at wowlogs, look the averenge data for any fight ( eg. add heavy fights like helya/eye .. ST like ursoc guarm )
Look at 75 parses which is quite fair because its not influated by lucky rolls.

If there is a class doing too well on ST just nerf ONE singletarget skill by a certain % which brings it a bit more to the middle.
Do the same for AoE fights, nerf or buff a aoe skill by a certain amount.

Cant be that hard or am i wrong?

yes, because arte those players who are doing better using harder talents? and more dificult to play then those other classes? does the raid require the other classes to do other mehcanics well that class gets to right out dps?

[Woobels]

I love this game but Blizzard is notoriously bad at balancing in general.

Look at Overwatch for example.

They clearly use a 'dancing chairs' type of system for WoW though and it's godawful.

I don't play Hearthstone but I imagine it's not very balanced either.

[FelPlague]

Then why is the game not balanced? WoW only has 12 classes, you seriously think they aren't capable of balancing them? Use common sense...

because there is 12 classes
36 specs
2,187 talent combonations
countless fight types
teir sets and trinkets
differant play styles

so no its not as simple as "lol they cant make 12 classes do the same damage this is bullshit"


if they made all the classes do the exact same fucking damage, then the hardcore would just complain about what class is the easiest, and all say that one is OP

- - - Updated - - -

This. This so much.

It's like they smash everything to shambles with every expansion and then let an inebriated chimpanzee construct something completely random out of the remains using its poop as glue.

god yes i wish they would just stop... 1 spec a expansion, 2-3 max... not 5-6... specially when they add 2 more new specs... like holy shit... i just want my wotlk demo lock 3.3.5 to be exact :P

[cFortyfive]

a release raid do they not watch Blizzcon

Again for another absurdly anal poster - it was already tested on beta and was scheduled to be released independent from any patch release.

[Ferozan]

The big main problem is that blizzard ignores feedback from everyone that tries making a good feedback thread about not only dps, but class design overall.

You see the main theorycrafters discussing on PTR/Beta feedback threads backing their points with every piece of knowledge they studied and worked upon and not even a single blue posts on them. Then they make some arbitrary changes to numbers and gameplay based on "internal feedback", like gutting prot warrior gameplay now in 7.1.5 (but this is only my opinion, some people may like it).

This always remembers me when Celestalon retweeted the "Feels so furious" tweet about Wild Strikes back in wod beta. This is also the dude that played on a blues wod beta event on a full passive mm hunter talent tree on dungeons, went bottom dps on the runs and said that was having tons of fun with it. Not really relevant if he was a good player, but the dude played wow on a track ball.

Overall, the main problem about blizz balancing not only numbers, but gameplay, is the lack of transparency. I understand now why warlocks miss Xelnath back in MoP. It is really sad to see what that class became today, in Legion.

[Grimlokh]

Yes, you got that right. If Blizzard makes changes which are awful they are awful. If they would make changes which are good, nobody would complain.

Honestly I have no idea how delusional someone can be to defend what they did to Hunter, with the reasoning 'Well at least they made changes!!!'.

"Nobody will complain" hahaa nice one. I'm not saying this changes are good or awful..i'm saying no matter what the fuck blizz do...everyone will still complain. If they discover the cure for cancer...someone will complain that they wanted to stay this way and blizz is forcing them to take it. The game is fine..its not impossible to play mm now or whatever you want. NOBODY is forcing you to stay with your class. And the "im in an hardcore mythic guild and now i cant play hunter" excuse is fucking bs. Dont need to explain why

[ComputerNerd]

Yeah, so sad no way to simulate those combinations.....ohh wait...

Simulations are making assumptions.
They do not ever represent an encounter fully.
Hence why a sim is not going to match how a player performs.
It is a guide as to the possible outliers.

Would you complain that a simulation of your gear resulted in a number that you did not actually achieve ?
No, because you know there is a difference.
And here you know the same, but choose not to acknowledge it because it doesn't suit your argument.

[DarthMonk79]

I agree - though I think the game engine limits them a bit.
In the early days the uniqueness was accomplished by exclusiveness - one class would have some gimmick and that's why you'd bring them. They'd do their party trick and then stood doing nothing, while everyone else DPS-zerged.

Obviously that wasn't very engaging, so they decided that everyone should be (to some extent) be able to participate in the "core" mechanic of the game, which is sadly, doing DPS. And that's where we are now - even though most of the expacs land their tuning in 10-15% variance, there's still huge amount of jostling going on for that "FOTM-best-class". I think faster tuning pace would be good - in order to catch outliers and to alleviate that fotm-rerolling somewhat.

I think they should definitely try to add "uniqueness" to the classes again, but without removing that "core" mechanics from them. I'd be all for adding the "holy trinity" mechanics to all classes (so everyone can tank/heal/dps), and separate them with unique utility features. But then the problem is of course coming up with 36 different, fun and relevant utility functions..and keeping them in balance... and that's not entirely trivial I think.

So I think we're a bit stuck in the "DPS is the only core gameplay function" paradigm.

Understood, but once again this is where the community sucks. I doubt Blizzard formed their raids around the only way them being beatable is with say only these 3 dps classes, etc. I mean that would be counter-productive. The odds are closer that Blizzard made it to where you could kill the bosses with any mix of classes and specs just some would be more difficult or easier with certain ones. It is the community that with all their min/maxing, etc said "these are the classes/spec's that you MUST play to raid with". Not what you should have fun with or want to play with but literally if you want to raid with us you must play this. That is because its all about the min/max and what is easiest. Not what can we do to work with what we got and find a way to beat it with that, what can we do to help maybe a dps or a healer that is a little on the low end to get better. NO, the moment you don't hit their "number" you get sidelined and that's not how the game was intended. So it again comes back to my example that as much as people rag on Blizzard about not making things "balanced", it is the community setting its own idea of what a raid should be and be consisted of.

[Deleted]

So it again comes back to my example that as much as people rag on Blizzard about not making things "balanced", it is the community setting its own idea of what a raid should be and be consisted of.

Yep, totally.
The scene is very competitive at the top end - and if you're part of it in that setting you of course want every edge you can get. That's natural. And that's where it matters. Those guys and gals have probably pretty legitimate opinions about balance on that level - but they adapt and bring what's necessary. So it's not really a huge problem.

Unfortunately, that mindset has the tendency to filter down the ranks and I've heard people discuss 'viability' of certain specs in Normal raids and even LFR. The same thing repeats with AP and Legendaries - people are grinding themselves silly - even though the results don't really matter at all outside the ~5% mythic raiding bubble.

But I guess it's that basic human (male) need of being able to be the number one top dog. Pretending to be the alpha male raider and the apex predator of LFR. That's just humanity man.. But it sort of screws the "community" quite badly and we get dozen threads like this.

[Donair]

whaaaayyyyyy they took away my 2.5 mil crit. and now Im not leet anymore. so ill start a thread on MMO and complain and say Blizz is dumb.

tissues are in the bathroom, bro.

Can you spot the shadow priest?!

[Volitar]

I don't know how anyone can defend this retarded roller coaster of buffing abilities by 40%+ two days after a patch goes live after testing it for months.