Significance of Nightborne and Lefion events to the Night Elf world

[Beloren]

Curious what everybody thinks about what significance Suramar, the nightborne, Legion return, Illidan's return, revelations and exoneration would impact the surviving night elves.

I am particularly interested on what significance the nightborne would have on the Shen'dralar Higborne too, or Suramar surviving the sundering and the arcan'dor cure on night elf mindset. How do you think ancients and younger night elves would take all these shifts to what they thought...what would this group look like after these events?

We saw the blood elves changed significantly by the TbC events, how would the Legion events change the night elves?

[Deleted]

How significant these events are? Tremendously.

How much of that will be reflected in future story lines? Zero to very little.

/thread

[ravenmoon]

How significant these events are? Tremendously.

How much of that will be reflected in future story lines? Zero to very little.

/thread

exactly! we're going to argus in 7.3, wanna bet that 7.2 is the last we'll hear about nightborne, night elves this expansion.. we didn't even hear of the shen'dralar the group to which the nightborne, suramar possibly hold the most significance too, nothing.

it would be back to Khadgar, Jaina, Yrel, Velen - Illidan would be there, and that would be your night elf world - Illidan, they'd be discarded and forgotten like they've mostly been for the last 12 years. Remember Cata? the shen'dralar return of the highborne was a very significan t event, lifting of the ban on magic and the exile? practising arcane magic again? A book exploring this sesimic shift was expected, not to mention how their return would impact the high elves and the blood elves and elven relations - it was potentially a reboot for the night elves - what happened? Nothing.
Thrall, goblins, deathwing, etc dominated everything, and they faded - even the worlfheart novel had it as a side issue before the exaltedness of Varian the High King's coronation and the Worgen swooping into to save the poor damsels in distress night elf females against mean Garrosh. I remember how significnat the end of TBC was for the blood elves setting them up for the future, Legion is not going to end with the night elves because it's going to Argus, and the Draenei again will play a large significant role like they did in WoD, squeezing night elf involvement to 7.0-7.2 and probably left dangling ...


Furthermore, I hate to admit it, but i don't think the forum users are all that interested in the nightborne or night elves, since legion started I have perhaps been the most enthusiastic poster on the nightborne and night elven topics, boosting others' threads, expanding the conversations, however they are quickly left behind when i stop or almost always migrate to talking about blood elves and high elves then it becomes a high elf/blood elf thread - showing where most forum users are interested in.

And if they aren't that popular, blizzard will relegate them to sidekicks or less even. Night elves were very popular in WC3, and that didn't save them from nearly completely disappearing from anything significant in the warcraft universe for 14 years until legion was released.

So whiles these events are terribly significant, i won't count on actually having or seeing that reflected.

[Darkarath]

I think that night elves arent interesting anymore, except Illidan, which doesnt has much of its left on him.

Back on WC3 they were cool as hell, they were ruthless, they were a new way of seeing an elven race. But through the years their development moved towards the typicall elven races of other universes, plus terrible character development of Tyrande and Malfurion, who is just pathetic in Legion.

For all these reasons I think that we have lost all interest in them, I hope that their cool xenofobous version returns someday.

[Beloren]

exactly! we're going to argus in 7.3, wanna bet that 7.2 is the last we'll hear about nightborne, night elves this expansion.. we didn't even hear of the shen'dralar the group to which the nightborne, suramar possibly hold the most significance too, nothing.

it would be back to Khadgar, Jaina, Yrel, Velen - Illidan would be there, and that would be your night elf world - Illidan, they'd be discarded and forgotten like they've mostly been for the last 12 years. Remember Cata? the shen'dralar return of the highborne was a very significan t event, lifting of the ban on magic and the exile? practising arcane magic again? A book exploring this sesimic shift was expected, not to mention how their return would impact the high elves and the blood elves and elven relations - it was potentially a reboot for the night elves - what happened? Nothing.
Thrall, goblins, deathwing, etc dominated everything, and they faded - even the worlfheart novel had it as a side issue before the exaltedness of Varian the High King's coronation and the Worgen swooping into to save the poor damsels in distress night elf females against mean Garrosh. I remember how significnat the end of TBC was for the blood elves setting them up for the future, Legion is not going to end with the night elves because it's going to Argus, and the Draenei again will play a large significant role like they did in WoD, squeezing night elf involvement to 7.0-7.2 and probably left dangling ...


Furthermore, I hate to admit it, but i don't think the forum users are all that interested in the nightborne or night elves, since legion started I have perhaps been the most enthusiastic poster on the nightborne and night elven topics, boosting others' threads, expanding the conversations, however they are quickly left behind when i stop or almost always migrate to talking about blood elves and high elves then it becomes a high elf/blood elf thread - showing where most forum users are interested in.

And if they aren't that popular, blizzard will relegate them to sidekicks or less even. Night elves were very popular in WC3, and that didn't save them from nearly completely disappearing from anything significant in the warcraft universe for 14 years until legion was released.

So whiles these events are terribly significant, i won't count on actually having or seeing that reflected.

with all due respect, but just because it happened int he past with the shen'drealar doesn't mean it would happen again here, secondly none of us know what blizzard will do, they may surprise you ye. The only reason the blood elves are so popular is because blizzard themselves wort e and presented them very well and successful, if they did the same for the night elves/highborne/nightborne people will start talking about them

[Deleted]

For all these reasons I think that we have lost all interest in them, I hope that their cool xenofobous version returns someday.

I don't think their xenophobia will ever become prevalent again after all these years of mingling and dealing with other societies. They may and they still actually show signs of racism at times, but to revert to the level of pre-WoW is beyond impossible at this point. The whole world (of Warcraft) has changed.

I am not saying that was a bad part of their characteristics as far as story telling goes; it was actually interesting. I am just saying that it wouldn't make sense to revert there.

[Beloren]

How significant these events are? Tremendously.

How much of that will be reflected in future story lines? Zero to very little.

/thread

From what we know about them in the lore so far I'm curious what these important ways it would change them would be, even if blizzard never bother to show us. If you were writing their development as a group what sort of changes and impact would all this have on and to them. What would you expect of the various groups after these events

[Deleted]

From what we know about them in the lore so far I'm curious what these important ways it would change them would be, even if blizzard never bother to show us. If you were writing their development as a group what sort of changes and impact would all this have on and to them. What would you expect of the various groups after these events

Personally? As a fan of the elven races in general, be it in Warcraft and folklore/fantasy in general, I would love to see a lot of focus on the warfare, culture, and economy aspects between the four elven factions.

[Darkarath]

I don't think their xenophobia will ever become prevalent again after all these years of mingling and dealing with other societies. They may and they still actually show signs of racism at times, but to revert to the level of pre-WoW is beyond impossible at this point. The whole world (of Warcraft) has changed.

I am not saying that was a bad part of their characteristics as far as story telling goes; it was actually interesting. I am just saying that it wouldn't make sense to revert there.

I agree, with the current model its impossible to return to their awesome version. Hope to see improvements in the development of their main characters though, Jarod Shadowsong should be one of our main leaders when we travel to Argus, but I bet that they are just going to left him behind.

[Deleted]

I agree, with the current model its impossible to return to their awesome version. Hope to see improvements in the development of their main characters though, Jarod Shadowsong should be one of our main leaders when we travel to Argus, but I bet that they are just going to left him behind.

I never understood the appeal of Jarod, but I respect it. And I agree, we need him to be more in touch with the current events because we need more relevant lore figures.

With Fandral dead, we have what.. Malfurion, Illidan, Tyrande, Shandris, Maiev and Jarod? Am I missing anyone?

[Darkarath]

I never understood the appeal of Jarod, but I respect it. And I agree, we need him to be more in touch with the current events because we need more relevant lore figures.

With Fandral dead, we have what.. Malfurion, Illidan, Tyrande, Shandris, Maiev and Jarod? Am I missing anyone?

Maybe Broll and Naralex, both druids, but they arent really that important, an of course we have Azshara but thats different.

Jarod and Maiev are ready to die after Legion, they are too old and they dont have more stories to tell. I feel that they are saving them for the Azshara expansion, this guys hate her with all their soul, and they might have an honorable death by then.

They should focus in Shandris because shes still cool, unlike Tyrande and Malfurion, especially Malfurion after Legion, why hes even still alive?

[Deleted]

Maybe Broll and Naralex, both druids, but they arent really that important, an of course we have Azshara but thats different.

Jarod and Maiev are ready to die after Legion, they are too old and they dont have more stories to tell. I feel that they are saving them for the Azshara expansion, this guys hate her with all their soul, and they might have an honorable death by then.

Azshara doesn't count, but her expansion will be very interesting to me at least.

Eh, I would count Broll despite how obsecure he is because I like Team Rehgar.

Maiev still has the Illidan story line to conclude, potentially.

Now watch as Illidan comes back to life and Maiev gives no shits.

#Blizzard

[Darkarath]

Azshara doesn't count, but her expansion will be very interesting to me at least.

Eh, I would count Broll despite how obsecure he is because I like Team Rehgar.

Maiev still has the Illidan story line to conclude, potentially.

Now watch as Illidan comes back to life and Maiev gives no shits.

#Blizzard

Well I didnt think about Maiev now that Illidans is back, and she freed the Illidari, it will be interesting to see what Blizzard does about it (probably nothing).

[Deleted]

Are you trying to say those are not enough? Cause there are several races in the game where that list would be far shorter. I mean for Trolls there are what, two lore figures left?

In term of numbers they certainly are.

In term of development some are underdeveloped, others could use some love, and others remained stagnant for a long time. So yes, I am definitely saying that is not enough to keep my interest.

The trolls issue is another story altogether that is even more baffling, but that has no relevance to what I am saying at all.

[Mace]

For all these reasons I think that we have lost all interest in them, I hope that their cool xenofobous version returns someday.

I don't think it's the xenophobia that most people liked, I think that word is often misappropriated there, it's more their eliteness and no nonsense I think that people are attributing to and admiring. THey didn't miss when they shot or attacked and they acted swiftly... whiles that's not 100% of the time or instances that we actually saw, that is the "air" they had about them. Superior !

This is what is gone, compare to now, where they often miss, fail often hesitant and uncertain, often beaten, seldom victorious, always struggling, the ones you feel are on the weaker side and more likely to fail, where the opposite was the case in WC3, they certainly don't have an air of invincibility, they don't even have a credible air of superiority to them. They may be written to think they're superior but they certainly are not. The air about them was one of extreme or absolute confidence, but not conceited, that made them attractive - that's what people I think mean when they say xenophobic.

Swing over to the highborne and nightborne there is certainly conceit alongisde the confidence i.e. over confident, unlike the night elves that always seemed to deliver what was expected, the highborne/high elves/nightborne never quite do, always over estimating themselves in contrast to the night elves - that's what we miss. and to answer the OPs question, the events of Legion (not lefion) have the potential to whip the night elves back into that sort of people.

currently they come off discouraged, disheartened, depressed in a fed up way. weak and rather pathetic - (with no Ysera's nordrassil gift propping their spirits up), they feel as if they're tired, they are not written to approach anything with the tenacity we saw of them in WC3 that led us to believe these were the same people that had a world covering empire... You expect a night elf to come out on top under impossible odds to be that sort of remarkable group first Wc3 gave the illusion of, which is what people LOVED. In fact they are so far from that image, that I think most people find the nightborne completely unlike them even though they are meant to be the same people - one locked themselves up in Suramar with a font of power, the other laid aside arcane magic embracing nature. But you look at the confidence and aggression in the nightborne, the spirit and the fire (albeit mixed in with conceit), and it's not really there in the night elf, and when you see it in night elves you're not convinced by it.

This at heart is what the events of Legion have the potential to spark in the night elves. The night elves don't have to be a nature loving only group, that's not what defined them when they were introduced anyway. Powerful, aggressive, righteous, ancient and damn good at what they did was what characterised. IT matters not if it's spell, bow or glaive, whether it's Priest, druid or an arcane master. You saw primal power - so raw it could be called savage, yet undeniably this was a sophisticated people.

I like how this is reflected in the nightborne, because you often see them despite their advanced state, working barefooted in their fancy garb that looks both regal yet almost tribal - and these are highly advanced and civilized people. THere is a contrast even in them that is engimatic.

I'm sorry I haven't directly answered your question OP but I will attempt to. It's important to note that in the events of the Legion and the revelations have teh potential to spark fire back into the night elves and could return them to the air of superiority and driven almost aggressive spirit they had wrapped in the royal velvet coating of civility, wisdom and grace.

They are fascinating if done right displaying such contrasting elements all at the same time, but they haven't been written with such expertise in a long time, but I think they have a chance to be restored to that. And this has nothing to do with whether they are nature or arcane, mages or druids or priests, this is everything to do with their attitude, character and their resolve.


You can have the highborne and the nightborne reflect the arcane wing of this, the druids and the valewalkers the nature wing, the priests and the sentinels/wardens the divine wing - however that turns out. And they will still feel night elfy, whether it's in high flying cities like Suramar and Eldre'thalas, humble ones like Darnassus, or just the ancient forests of Val'sharah or Ashenvale.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree, with the current model its impossible to return to their awesome version. Hope to see improvements in the development of their main characters though, Jarod Shadowsong should be one of our main leaders when we travel to Argus, but I bet that they are just going to left him behind.

I don't see why blizzard can't write them back into their awesome version, I think the events of Legion, revelations of Illidan, return of Suramar, the nightborne and the curing of arcane addiction, the revelation of the Legion's true intent etc, have all the ingredients to produce the massive psychological shift and energizing they need to believe in themselves.

Face it, it's been 10k years and no one's come close to them yet and what they achieved, that's why the nightborne are so cocky and initially why Elisande instead allies with the legion - only seeing her error and that just because we are less advanced doesn't mean we're less capable and joins us to do what's right. It is rather phenomenal what they did, they achieved so much. and even during the long night (vigil for the night elves, night for the nightborne) they may not have improved or expanded, but to maintain their commitment, act with wisdom and decisiveness on the one hand and in the nightborne case, maintain that sanctuary and not succumb to recklessness - it takes something. Not to mention the effectiveness they accomplished things..only to look and be so pathetic in hte last 12 years of wow.

WEll if it was shame and fear that stopped them from using magic, loss of immortality, and confidence in themselves because they believed they brought the Legion, and their one great gift, the thing they are most good at and inherently bonded too, arcane magic became a thing to despise or a thing that also corrupted and impaired them rather than the amazing tool it was once, all this potential changes with Legion.

1. The Legion was always looking for Azeroth, long before the Elves came to be. - = the night elves didn't create this disaster, it goes well beyond them
2. Azshara's actions may have summoned the legion, but actually so far, the night elf kingdom was perhaps Azeroth in the best shape it was to combat that evil, and it survived the encounter because of the night elves, who is to say it would have survived any other way?

What point 1 & 2 do to the night elves - is give them a break, relieve the guilt, so they can finally after 10,000 years go back to who they were?

Who were they ?

3. The graceful noble people that really cultivated the world and their lives to amazing heights an d sought to bring everything up to that level. They eschewed beauty and knowledge, loved peace and their search for knowledge led them to power they used for a long time to enhance everything around them - until they overshot and an imbalance that led to addiction came.

4. The root of the imbalance dealt with, really gives them a fresh chance, to use all the tools at their disposal as a group, priests will continue to use the Light and the divine, druids will continue to use nature and the emerald dream, ofc, but no longer will mages and the use of the arcane be prohibited or feared, but night elves will embrace nightborne and Highborne alike and will trust their counsel and expertise as they all potentially work together.

5. IT will no longer be about fixing their mistake, but right now about executing their vengeance on the evil that sought to destroy them and nearly did, it's no longer living to pay for a crime or for a mistake or for arrogance, but to rid the world of anomaly and restore rightness and be a part in building it up again.

6. It means more confidence and more righteousness from them, but tempered with wisdom, they would stand firm against mismanagement and abuse when they see it, but would otherwise stick to their own affairs as they do what they love best - make things whole and beautiful again.

Shen'dralar: I see these guys getting new life and drive. They would pour everything into ensuring Suramar survives and the Nightwell too so that night elvendom will flourish once more and become the bastion of arcana it once was. Humans are good at magic, witht he light, and warriors, but what the Elves have excelled at most and treasured most is magic and have led the way here, they will seek to establish this again - scholars and philosophers, pondering the mysteries and uncovering them.

Night elves: revelations about Illidan, Azeorth and not the well being the true goal, and the effectiveness of the Arcan'dor fruit, would turn the desire to destroy well's of power on it's head and completely kill magic aversion, but not a healthy respect for it. From wanting to destroy the Nightwell, they would instead want to heal it. From wanting little to nothing to do with the nightborne and tolerating the Highborne out of need, they would instead re-embrace them as brothers. It also opens the door for healing between high elf and night elf. Because the high elves split into high elves and blood elves, each group would have a different response to mend. - i suspect relations would improve between high elves and night elves, but blood elves might be difficult -- or blizzard might pull a stunner and have the blood elves be the ones to be reasonable, and the high elves be the stubborn ones poisoning the humans against the night elves. Not enough to break but at least enough to cause issues and unpleasantness, that would be quite a twist.

Not to mention family reunions in Suramar - what would the role of the priest hood be once the Cathedral of Night is reclaimed. it's like a spiritual rebirth if the most holy site of Elune is reclaimed and restored - you could see sides of the priesthood we never have - because so far they've been in an "exile of thoughts" in war mode because of the vigil, - usual priestly functions long since gone suspended with no real citadel or temple with a vibrant society - they had a very sparse and reclusive one, Suramar changes all of that for them too.

There is so much more. But most of all it's the heart that changes.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

Guess people are still really hanging on to what Grom said about Night Elves back in WCIII.

[ravenmoon]

Guess people are still really hanging on to what Grom said about Night Elves back in WCIII.

and they always will, it has most people thinking they're savage, but that's not what that they were shown as was it. And I would hate for them to make them savage. I quite like the graceful but superior image they had, and prefer it to be restored, with the juxtaposition of great civlity and sophistiaction on savage ferocity in battle. Now that's beautiful and unique.

how a race is introduced is what defines them, warcraft 3 is especially significant for night elves because it's where them and their lore are introduced,, and we get to see them in their original light, which has somewhat dimmed since. And whiles legion carries their story on a bit, the character of the group in WC3, seems to have been missed in Wow, maybe we'll get it back.

[

[Caerule]

Honestly, as the man hoping to break the arcane dependency of his people, the Arcan'dor might be very interesting to Lor'themar Theron of the Blood Elves.

I think it should be quite a shock to the Blood Elves to find out that the Nightfallen found a cure for arcane addiction. Once that could have saved people when the Blood Elves were becoming Wretched. If I was a Blood Elf leader, I'd want to grow my own Arcan'dor in Quel'thalas. The Sunwell would surely be able to power it. According to new lore about Sylvanas' bow, it's powered magic a giant magical tree before.

As for the Night Elves, they abandoned the way of life that these Nightborne have embraced for 10.000 years. They aren't really compatible. However, I can imagine the Highborne Night Elves leaving Darnassus, where some still don't welcome them, and seeking refuge in Suramar, a city that embraces magic like they do. You know, once the demon invasion is over.

[Darkarath]

I don't think it's the xenophobia that most people liked, I think that word is often misappropriated there, it's more their eliteness and no nonsense I think that people are attributing to and admiring. THey didn't miss when they shot or attacked and they acted swiftly... whiles that's not 100% of the time or instances that we actually saw, that is the "air" they had about them. Superior !

I agree with your post, you made some really good points, but I still think that NE were a little xenofobous. In WC3 they kill humans and orcs alike, or anyone that step into their territory.

[ravenmoon]

As for the Night Elves, they abandoned the way of life that these Nightborne have embraced for 10.000 years. They aren't really compatible. However, I can imagine the Highborne Night Elves leaving Darnassus, where some still don't welcome them, and seeking refuge in Suramar, a city that embraces magic like they do. You know, once the demon invasion is over.

what do you mean they aren't really compatible.. do you understand how night elves work? the disciplines have their way of life. Druids are not compatible with sentinels or priests, and vice versa, yet there they are, it's not what they do or how they live that unites them you know.

What about the highborne, they also aren't compatible with the druid or the sentinels yet there they are in an alliance with the alliance night elves. You migiht be forgetting that night elves don't seem to have a problem working with arcane stock highborne, or arcane using races like humans, the problem seems to be only with teh high/blood elves.

It sounds like it is personal "they abandoned..." you say .. "so they aren't really compatible" - i mean it's like wtf? they stopped using arcane magic to prevent the legion's return, and to stop themselves from being corrupted by addiction. If those two obstacles are removed, there is no reason why they won't embrace their heritage again. I don't expect priests and druids to turn to mages, but no longer would it be banned or frowned upon to use magic.

After cata, and now legion solving the addiction problem please tell me why night elves won't embrace the arcane you saw them already doing in cata, and how does that or would that stop them from interacting with and bonding with their fellow nightborne kin which you already see them doing in Shal'aran?