Legion - Assassination Discussion

[Deleted]

for m+ if u want to push higher tiers then assass > outlaw, outlaw is better <+10 cuz mobs die too fast anyways. after that assass just gets stronger and stronger than outlaw in M+ due to mob health. But comparing rogue to a DH in M+ is like comparing a wet noodle vs a katana xD. You rarely see a rogue beating an equally geared/skilled DH in raids, and when it comes to M+, you absolutely cant beat em, especially for trash.

DH's are top tier in anything atm due to insane dmg. Get the leg shoulders + CoF = GG WP. Also, if you main a DH, i dont recommend switching to rogue, you wont have as much fun.

[Deleted]

Can someone clarify proper Kingsbane usage for me?

In the Assassination guide on icy-veins.com it says

"Cast Kingsbane when it is off cooldown.

Envenom before activating Kingsbane.
Pool Energy before activating Kingsbane and maintain the Envenom buff for the entire duration of Kingsbane."

So that means I should pool energy > use Envenom > use Kingsbane right afterwards, then maintain the Envenom buff with how ever many CPs I currently have?

Or am I misunderstanding something here. Sorry if this is dumb, I'm new to Rogue.

[Elyzibeth]

@Broseph Stalin,

Yes, you are reading that correctly. The big thing is when you cast envenom before the kingsbane use you refresh Surge of Toxins and apply Envenom. Surge of toxins buffs the amount of damage your kingsbane strikes AND 14 second dot does, Envenom gives you a 30% increased change to apply poisons right away after the kingsbane so you can begin stacking the +15% damage bonus per poison proc during kingsbane's dot. As long as you keep mutilating, stabbing and envenoming during that 14 second window you will keep up surge of toxins, envenom, and max out your poison applications resulting in BIG damage ticks towards the end of the buff.

Your kingsbane that is cast during Lust will perform the best because you are stabbing faster with the 35% haste during that time, always try to get your kingsbane in with lust if possible.

[Kelmor]

So with MP//AP at this point, what takes priority, Envenom uptime or Surge of Toxins uptime? Meaning, am I clipping envenom to maintain SoT, or am I just delaying to envenom?

[Adalwolf]

The Envenom buffs adds literally 0 DPS once you have 5 stacks of Agonizing Poison, except when King's Bane is active on the target. So your priority is to keep SoT up.

[shaunika123]

So with MP//AP at this point, what takes priority, Envenom uptime or Surge of Toxins uptime? Meaning, am I clipping envenom to maintain SoT, or am I just delaying to envenom?

SoT uptime is more important, but it's also important to use 4-5 CP SoTS (since it scales with CP spent) so it's not always a necessity to clip, unlike with EP

[DakonBlackblade]

So with MP//AP at this point, what takes priority, Envenom uptime or Surge of Toxins uptime? Meaning, am I clipping envenom to maintain SoT, or am I just delaying to envenom?

Basicaly you mutilate 2x then you envenom, ppl over complicate this, theres no need to keep track of surge specialy since the poison actualy have to proc for it to be set as the buffed version or the unbufed one, so its perfectly possible to not have Surge up and have a buffed poison, or vice versa and surge also procs on ruptures when you need to refresh it, so it kinda just happens. With Vigor you will always be using envenoms at 4 or 5 cps. Try to refresh your bleeds prior to you KB window and to poll energy, so you can go all out on envenoms and muts for maximum dot dps

[Deleted]

Basicaly you mutilate 2x then you envenom, ppl over complicate this, theres no need to keep track of surge specialy since the poison actualy have to proc for it to be set as the buffed version or the unbufed one, so its perfectly possible to not have Surge up and have a buffed poison, or vice versa and surge also procs on ruptures when you need to refresh it, so it kinda just happens. With Vigor you will always be using envenoms at 4 or 5 cps. Try to refresh your bleeds prior to you KB window and to poll energy, so you can go all out on envenoms and muts for maximum dot dps

lolwut

[Unseenkilla]

Anyone else been messing with trinkets? CoF is obvious BiS... Assuming Fond is the other one? Or Focci?

[DakonBlackblade]

lolwut

lolwut what ? Having Surge on does not mean you also have the buffed poison on, the poison only gets buffed after it procs while you have the buff on. The same is true in reverse, if you do not have surge and the poison doesn't proc you will keep the buffed version on the target. And with Vigor you are not using envenom at lower than 4 cps, so its just a matter of mutilating 2x (if you don't get a 4cp mut) and then casting envenom.

[Deleted]

If kingsbane is up you want to have the envenom buff / sot buff but also want to get as much hits as possible. The biggest kingsbane ticks I always have if my mutilates dont crit in that time frame so I am forced to use mutilate more often. Mutilate increases the kingsbane damage more efficient than any other spell/autoattacks.

[Won7on]

Damn, got the new legendary shoulders today. So I now have boots, bracers and shoulders. What do you think the best setup going into NH will be? Gonna do my own sims of course, but I'm guessing Boots + Bracers + 2/3MA relics + CoF will still be ideal since that gives you the 45 sec Vendetta CD for the best sustained DPS.

But I could see using Bracers + Shoulders and dropping MA relics for the 1:30 Vendetta too, if there's 2 other trinkets that are good. The burst on these shoulders is pretty insane if you have Vanish up.

Also, anyone know how the shoulders interact with NElf Shadowmeld?

[iky43210]

COF procs is very rng. It actually desync my kingbane completely when I get too lucky

[Won7on]

COF procs is very rng. It actually desync my kingbane completely when I get too lucky

Do you have any logs using CoF? I'd like to take a look

[iky43210]

Do you have any logs using CoF? I'd like to take a look

no log, got it in a cache and was hitting raid dummies. I can provide it later tonight once raid is over

[Adalwolf]

Anyone else been messing with trinkets? CoF is obvious BiS... Assuming Fond is the other one? Or Focci?

I got the Nightblooming Frond today, around 2:00 PM PST. At first, it was a notable DPS increase, the recursive strikes buff was doing around 8% of my total damage, proc'ing once every minute, sometimes more often.

Then, around 4:00 PM PST, it suddenly stopped proc'ing. It doesn't proc on pull, most of time. When it finally procs the 1st time, Vendeta and Old War is already gone. And it proc rates seems to be 0.5 RPPM. I killed 6 Bosses on HC and the trinket did about the same damage as Hidden Satyr. Now, I don't know what happened, but it seems the trinket got stealth nerfed during the raid. Maybe Blizzard realized it was too powerful?

[Won7on]

Hm, opener with the shoulders is something I hadn't considered. With 100% crit, each Mut is guaranteed 4 CP and Kingsbane is 3 CP. What's the best way to take advantage of the shoulder buff while still putting up a max-duration Vanish Rupture?

The best I could come up with Garrote --> Mut --> Rupture --> Mut --> Mut (waste 3 CP) --> Vanish+Rupture --> Kingsbane --> Mut (waste 2CP) --> Envenom --> Mut --> Envenom, but wasting that many CP still feels bad

[scarfdeath]

Hm, opener with the shoulders is something I hadn't considered. With 100% crit, each Mut is guaranteed 4 CP and Kingsbane is 3 CP. What's the best way to take advantage of the shoulder buff while still putting up a max-duration Vanish Rupture?

The best I could come up with Garrote --> Mut --> Rupture --> Mut --> Mut (waste 3 CP) --> Vanish+Rupture --> Kingsbane --> Mut (waste 2CP) --> Envenom --> Mut --> Envenom, but wasting that many CP still feels bad

your opening looks very bad. wasting a lot of the 6 seconds crit.

I would go with:

Garrote --> Mut --> Rupture(5 combo) --> Mut --> Envenom( 4 combo)--> Vendeta--> Kingsbane --> Mut --> Envenom( 4 combo)--> Mut --> Envenom( 4 combo)--> Mut --> Vanish+Rupture --> Mut --> Envenom( 4 combo)--> Mut --> Envenom( 4 combo)--> till the 100% crit is gone.

[Won7on]

your opening looks very bad. wasting a lot of the 6 seconds crit.

I would go with:

Garrote --> Mut --> Rupture(5 combo) --> Mut --> Envenom( 4 combo)--> Vendeta--> Kingsbane --> Mut --> Envenom( 4 combo)--> Mut --> Envenom( 4 combo)--> Mut --> Vanish+Rupture --> Mut --> Envenom( 4 combo)--> Mut --> Envenom( 4 combo)--> till the 100% crit is gone.

What? You have 11 globals before the Vanish. The shoulder buff will have long fallen off. Also "Vendeta--> Kingsbane --> Mut --> Envenom( 4 combo)" doesn't make sense, Kingsbane gives you 3CP with 100% crit.

[scarfdeath]

What? You have 11 globals before the Vanish. The shoulder buff will have long fallen off. Also "Vendeta--> Kingsbane --> Mut --> Envenom( 4 combo)" doesn't make sense, Kingsbane gives you 3CP with 100% crit.

try to test how many mut + evenon you can use in 6 seconds.

i dont have the shoulder but i think i can easy use at least 2 mut + envenon in 6 seconds.

it's going to be your biggest source of dmg in this 100% crit time.

didnt know Kingsbane could give 3 points