why is nighthold considered the real race?

[Deleted]

as far as i know the top guilds consider the nighthold raid more prestigious than the previous raids.. the same goes for the brf and hfc raid in wod they were considered more prestigious than highmaul.. why is that the mentality ?

[shaunika123]

more bosses
tier sets

etc
generally speaking tier raids were always more prestigious than filler ones

plus it's a nice excuse to have when method whoops your ass

[Deleted]

Its an excuse lower skilled guilds make up in order to slack. A raid dropping tier pieces or not is not what defines it as "tier raids", its always T11, T15 or T19 - all of the raids count. If you fuck up, good luck next time.

[Alvito]

EN was over almost instant due to the prep time and over gearing. ToV was 3 bosses and several guilds cheated their way to a kill. So now we have a 10 boss raid that looks like it will have a little more challenge.

[Knyx]

It's like that in every expansion. Raids that come later are almost always held in higher regard.

[Dracodraco]

Personal opinion - raids with very few bosses that are over very quickly such as EN favors guilds that rely on brute force rather than tactical approaches much more. This means that guilds that are able to put extra hours in with added raid days or hours the first few resets will likely end up cleaining out the entire tier before they ever go down to a "normal" schedule, and guilds that don't do it have little chance to compete. EG, if a guild advertises they're 5 days/week and add another day for the first two mythic resets, and kills end boss on reset 2, are they actually still a 5 day guild?

Longer tiers allow for guilds that spend less time up front but have better organization to catch up and compete. That's why a longer tier like NH is "the real race" - it's the only one people that don't put insane hours into can expect to somewhat compete in.

(or that's historically been why not many people have cared about things like Highmaul, Ruby sanctum etc).

[jessegreathouse]

as far as i know the top guilds consider the nighthold raid more prestigious than the previous raids.. the same goes for the brf and hfc raid in wod they were considered more prestigious than highmaul.. why is that the mentality ?

Because it's the one we're doing now.

[Trapmastery]

It's not the real race cuz it will be all over less than two weeks and that goes for mythic as well so fuck off that race.

[chronia]

Personal opinion - raids with very few bosses that are over very quickly such as EN favors guilds that rely on brute force rather than tactical approaches much more. This means that guilds that are able to put extra hours in with added raid days or hours the first few resets will likely end up cleaining out the entire tier before they ever go down to a "normal" schedule, and guilds that don't do it have little chance to compete. EG, if a guild advertises they're 5 days/week and add another day for the first two mythic resets, and kills end boss on reset 2, are they actually still a 5 day guild?

Longer tiers allow for guilds that spend less time up front but have better organization to catch up and compete. That's why a longer tier like NH is "the real race" - it's the only one people that don't put insane hours into can expect to somewhat compete in.

(or that's historically been why not many people have cared about things like Highmaul, Ruby sanctum etc).

If you look at the WF i think all raids are considered Prio by the top guilds. Now ofc RS was was a 1 off boss and i think killed before EU was even up so that was not a serieus race, and it was in a time where even WF races were alot more "casual" (a lot less prep and time put in by the top guilds back then) than they are now. But i think Every Raid released since the first tier in Cata was raced pretty hardcore by the WF guilds.

Even for Highmaul to take that example guilds like Method and Paragon did 4-5 Split clears and stuff, which you don't do if you don't care about it. I also remember Method adjusting their roster after Highmaul because they came in 2nd, and being not to happy that Paragon beat them, another thing that shows that they cared for it.

Prep for EN was pretty insane also for those guilds racing for the top spots, that it afterwars was a bit of a dissapointment didn't mean they didn't care enough to go full out in prep. Even Mythic ToV where the top guilds downplayed the importance and prepped a little less than normal (i think none of the guilds enforced 35 traits, though on average atleast +- 1/2 to 3/4th of their raids still had it anyway) but as soon as it was appereant that Helya wasn't a pushover for them like Xavius they went all in anyway putting in as much time as they could which again shows that they care alot, even if its a shorter race.

[Dracodraco]

If you look at the WF i think all raids are considered Prio by the top guilds. Now ofc RS was was a 1 off boss and i think killed before EU was even up so that was not a serieus race, and it was in a time where even WF races were alot more "casual" (a lot less prep and time put in by the top guilds back then) than they are now. But i think Every Raid released since the first tier in Cata was raced pretty hardcore by the WF guilds.

Even for Highmaul to take that example guilds like Method and Paragon did 4-5 Split clears and stuff, which you don't do if you don't care about it. I also remember Method adjusting their roster after Highmaul because they came in 2nd, and being not to happy that Paragon beat them, another thing that shows that they cared for it.

Prep for EN was pretty insane also for those guilds racing for the top spots, that it afterwars was a bit of a dissapointment didn't mean they didn't care enough to go full out in prep. Even Mythic ToV where the top guilds downplayed the importance and prepped a little less than normal (i think none of the guilds enforced 35 traits, though on average atleast +- 1/2 to 3/4th of their raids still had it anyway) but as soon as it was appereant that Helya wasn't a pushover for them like Xavius they went all in anyway putting in as much time as they could which again shows that they care alot, even if its a shorter race.

I wasn't talking about the top guilds that take everything seriously. I was talking about the general statement that a lot of guilds have. I know of multiple guilds that didn't even bother spending time on Helya because wiping between 200 and 400 times just wasn't worth the effort for a single boss kill because "ToV doesn't matter, NH's comming out next month".

[Deleted]

Because Serenity dropped the ball on the first 2 raids.

In a few days Tomb of Sargeras will be the real race.

[Dangg]

In multiple raid instance tiers whoever kills all the bosses first is the winner. Has been like that since BC.

[ThunderTaco]

Well, first of all, there are trolls.

It's an excuse, mainly. Like when Paragon beat Method in Highmaul, it wasn't the "real race" so it didn't count, right. Even if they all recruited, prepared and raided extensively.

- - - Updated - - -

Isn't it the one who kills the last boss first? Even if they are second, third or 10th on the other bosses? Isn't that also how wowprogress weights the kills?

The guild that killed the last bos has always been the first to kill all the bosses of a specific raid, IIRC (if we exclude the clusterfuck that was vanilla and maybe bc).

Thank god in highmaul, paragon killed the butcher and cleared before method could kill the imperator, otherwise we propably would still have active thread about who really "won".

[ThunderTaco]

Not really. Just a quick look at ToT:

http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu/...ting.tier15_25

Method won the race, but was 2nd on Durumu and Twin Consorts. 3rd / 5th on other bosses and only 45th on Jin Do

....and similar in Highmaul (http://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu/.../rating.tier17)

You don't have to be first on all the bosses, you have to be the first who can say "we killed all the bosses".

I'm going to avoid the method example because there was Ra-den, but it's the same thing.

When Paragon killed M Butcher, they were the only guild who could say "we killed all bosses", so they won, that's it, it doesn't matter if you aren't first on all the bosses, what is important is if you are first to kill all of them.

[kamuimac]

as far as i know the top guilds consider the nighthold raid more prestigious than the previous raids.. the same goes for the brf and hfc raid in wod they were considered more prestigious than highmaul.. why is that the mentality ?

a) nobody cares
b)nobody cares
c) nobody cares

about artificial races besides 1 % of most devoted mmochampion zealots.

whoever clear it first has 0 effect on how we play game so again nobody cares

[Dangg]

Isn't it the one who kills the last boss first? Even if they are second, third or 10th on the other bosses? Isn't that also how wowprogress weights the kills?

Yeah, you're right it's easier to put it like that. However there were some tiers were multiple raids were released simultaneously (T4/5/6/11) or with non-linear order (T8, ToT, Highmaul).

[Deleted]

a) nobody cares
b)nobody cares
c) nobody cares

about artificial races besides 1 % of most devoted mmochampion zealots.

whoever clear it first has 0 effect on how we play game so again nobody cares

Obviously there are quite a few people who care about it, which can be seen by the number of and participation in the threads about it. What I don't get is why you think it important to let us know that you don't think it is important. That's like going into a sports bar and telling people there that nobody cares about soccer when they are discussing soccer.

[Liandryl]

as far as i know the top guilds consider the nighthold raid more prestigious than the previous raids.. the same goes for the brf and hfc raid in wod they were considered more prestigious than highmaul.. why is that the mentality ?

I believe a good reason to think that way would be that Blizzard always hass issues to solve at the start of a new expansion which makes early raid unbalanced or for the example of EN, not hard enough for the ilvl we came in with.
After couple of months and big patches, it is usually better and everyone had time to get prepared which can be hard at the beginning of an expansion.
ToV was a 3 boss raid so more of a filler, EN was way too easy then comes Nighthold with tier loot.
That is why I think Nighthold is the real race as well.

[Sylvaeres]

Because EN was pretty easy considering it was a mythic raid and the first 3 out of 7 bosses all crumbled. I think like 500 guilds went atleast 3/7 first week. Nighthold on the other hand has unique bosses, 10 of them, tier sets, and I'm realistically expecting Tich, Botanist, Grand Magistrix, and Gul'Dan all to take a fair amount of time

[Deleted]

Do ppl forget that this mentality has been around forever? And saying "Excuse used when method beat your ass". Yet Method themselves used this in Highmaul, so nice fucking logic LUL