Does blizz have any plans to fix mmr?

[Deleted]

Hello friends

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunnin...3Kruger_effect

We know, you're the best guys of all your PUGs, and when you lose, it's either because your mates suck or the matchmaking made you play against the world's best players. But of course, when you're winning, it's thanks to you, as you did everything on your own !

Or, the MMR works quite fine and if your rating is below average, that may mean that you're, finally, below average

So you're telling me that the Mercy who resses 2 people into 6 enemies 5 seconds after the first point on R66 defence is lost, instead of using it before so we could have actually held it, is just as good as me because she has the same rank as me? Or the stubborn [insert random dps hero here] who keep running in solo, so every team fight is essentially lost because it's 5v6 every time?
Just because Dunning Kruger effect is definitely a thing it doesn't apply in all scenarios. This is all at 3200-3400 by the way and no, I do not consider myself a Top500 player.

[Ophenia]

So you're telling me that the Mercy who resses 2 people into 6 enemies 5 seconds after the first point on R66 defence is lost, instead of using it before so we could have actually held it, is just as good as me because she has the same rank as me? Or the stubborn [insert random dps hero here] who keep running in solo, so every team fight is essentially lost because it's 5v6 every time?
Just because Dunning Kruger effect is definitely a thing it doesn't apply in all scenarios. This is all at 3200-3400 by the way and no, I do not consider myself a Top500 player.

Don't even try to tell me you never make mistakes or stupid shit.

Because no one is gonna believe you

[Deleted]

You can find a lot on twitch. Every well known pro player plays in at least duo. Surefour, Calvin, Curryshot, Lassiz, SoOn, etc. List goes on and on and on. You have just been making personal insults instead of coming up with proving your point.

Well, few people who play a lot of solo queue coming also to mind:

Surefour (top100 solo que only), Seagull, Torbjorn (top100 solo que Torbjörn only), IDDQD, RYUJEHONG, Zuppehw, Shadowburn, Moonmoon

But yea, Dunning-Krueger effect is so obvious in OW community it's almost sad.

[Deleted]

How is it broken? lul

[Endus]

There's a real simple way to tell if the MMR system is borked. Start tracking your wins and losses, and how much rank you gain or lose. Get at least 5 matches of each, more is better.

Figure out what your average gain and loss is.

If your gain is higher than your loss, you'll be gaining rank over time, as you play more matches and trend towards a 50/50 W/L ratio. If your loss is higher than your gains, then you are over-ranked and should be ranked lower than you are, and can expect to continue to lose rank.

It isn't because of the other players; these values are set based heavily on your personal performance. It isn't that other players "cost you the match", because your opposing teams have to deal with bad players just as much as you do. Unless you're the "bad player", in which case, see above; you're the common factor and should be downranked over time.

Don't go based on how you feel. Get the actual numbers in front of you.

[micwini]

Well, few people who play a lot of solo queue coming also to mind:

Surefour (top100 solo que only), Seagull, Torbjorn (top100 solo que Torbjörn only), IDDQD, RYUJEHONG, Zuppehw, Shadowburn, Moonmoon

But yea, Dunning-Krueger effect is so obvious in OW community it's almost sad.

All of those you named almost always duo queue. The times they go solo are countable on one hand. Just waiting for you to give a list of names of excusively solo queuers who are very high rank.

[Deleted]

There's a real simple way to tell if the MMR system is borked. Start tracking your wins and losses, and how much rank you gain or lose. Get at least 5 matches of each, more is better.

Figure out what your average gain and loss is.

If your gain is higher than your loss, you'll be gaining rank over time, as you play more matches and trend towards a 50/50 W/L ratio. If your loss is higher than your gains, then you are over-ranked and should be ranked lower than you are, and can expect to continue to lose rank.

It isn't because of the other players; these values are set based heavily on your personal performance. It isn't that other players "cost you the match", because your opposing teams have to deal with bad players just as much as you do. Unless you're the "bad player", in which case, see above; you're the common factor and should be downranked over time.

Don't go based on how you feel. Get the actual numbers in front of you.

I've been up to 2800ish and now am at 1900 because I'm losing several games in a row and it's dragging me down by like 30 points per loss when this happens. Next week I can be up to 2800 again if I don't get teamed with complete idiots, getting like 40-60 points per win then and the win ratio start evening out around 2700. It's just broken. Rating shouldn't fluctuate this much in a functional system. It's not based on skill levels of the player when you have such huge skill different on same rating.

[Deleted]

All of those you named almost always duo queue. The times they go solo are countable on one hand. Just waiting for you to give a list of names of excusively solo queuers who are very high rank.

Nah, they almost always solo queue. Very rarely do they duo queue. You know you could just accept the fact that you'll never get there yourself and stop blaming MM for it.

- - - Updated - - -

I've been up to 2800ish and now am at 1900 because I'm losing several games in a row and it's dragging me down by like 30 points per loss when this happens. Next week I can be up to 2800 again if I don't get teamed with complete idiots, getting like 40-60 points per win then and the win ratio start evening out around 2700. It's just broken. Rating shouldn't fluctuate this much in a functional system. It's not based on skill levels of the player when you have such huge skill different on same rating.

You're just having occasional really bad days then. It's not the MM's fault. My rating has NEVER fluctuated like that and I'm sure that's the case for most of the players. Sadly it's the whiny, loud minority on forums who sometimes make it look like the opposite.

[micwini]

Nah, they almost always solo queue. Very rarely do they duo queue. You know you could just accept the fact that you'll never get there yourself and stop blaming MM for it.

I know I easily can, I just never play comp. Hell, I barely even play anymore. Don't make wild assumptions man. Instead of making personal insults, maybe come with some proof instead of "Nah, they don't". Because they do, almost always. I watch all of them regularely.
You're probably one of those boosted ones that just abuse the system by getting carried by good teammates and calling others out on how they should improve or get better.

Also if you continue making personal insults instead of posting constructively i'll just have to put you on ignore since moderators on this site don't seem to care.

[Deleted]

The best change they could make would be to remove loss penalties to the team where someone has left mid-game. That is the single biggest method of me losing points in this game, it's completely outside of your control as well. 3 nights ago I had 4 games in a row that someone left, I dropped 110 points. Still give the winning team the points gain, but stop penalising those who stay in the game in a near impossible win situation.

That and limiting certain "classes" so people can't instant lock 5 dps.

[Kujako]

The best change they could make would be to remove loss penalties to the team where someone has left mid-game.

They say they wont do that, because it would encourage people to quit a losing match.

[Deleted]

They say they wont do that, because it would encourage people to quit a losing match.

No I mean the leaver gets a massive penalty, but the people who stick till the end get immunity from downrank. The opposition who won still get their win gain.

[Kujako]

No I mean the leaver gets a massive penalty, but the people who stick till the end get immunity from downrank. The opposition who won still get their win gain.

I know what you mean, but Blizzard already said "no" for dubious reasons.

Blue post

[Endus]

I know what you mean, but Blizzard already said "no" for dubious reasons.

Blue post

Not really "dubious reasons"; the issue is that any alternative would have to be punitive enough to leavers that a 6-man team couldn't rotate someone quitting seconds before a loss, to give their 5 friends a "pass" on a loss they earned, while taking a small enough penalty that it's ignorable. With 6 players in a team, and a 45% loss rate or so (allowing for a 45% win, 45% loss, 10% draw premise), that means you'd need something that racked up massive penalties for leaving just one match in every 13, on average, penalties that would outweigh a perfect win streak. Which basically requires week-long bans or better, as a starting point. Otherwise, people could abuse the system for a personal leave or three and gain a huge boost to rank before going back to playing "normally", and that's assuming a ramp up to serious punishment.

I don't think the system as-is is perfect, but it's better than that alternative.

If I had to fix things, it would be either by replacing leavers with a computer bot player, which feels "meh", or by slowly decaying the rank loss after a leaver, so if they leave 15 seconds before your loss, you lose full rank, but if you hold out for 3 minutes before finally losing, you lose nothing. The latter incentivizes everyone to keep playing hard, even with a leaver, since the longer you can hold it the less rank you'll lose, and it also prevents gaming the system, since quitting just before a loss doesn't help your team at all.

[Deleted]

Sounds like good and valid reasons to me really, nothing dubious about them. Like Endus said, it's not a perfect system. There is no such thing, and there never will be. There will always be people who blame others for their own poor performance, be it because there are leavers or because they just think those others are inferior players.

But it's still a fairly good system. Anyone who deserves a high rank will get it by simply playing. Anyone who complains on message boards about not being able go get the higher rank, well, they do not deserve it.

[Deleted]

Sounds like good and valid reasons to me really, nothing dubious about them. Like Endus said, it's not a perfect system. There is no such thing, and there never will be. There will always be people who blame others for their own poor performance, be it because there are leavers or because they just think those others are inferior players.

But it's still a fairly good system. Anyone who deserves a high rank will get it by simply playing. Anyone who complains on message boards about not being able go get the higher rank, well, they do not deserve it.

Aren't we the wannabe pro-gamer. It is FACT I lost 110 points through leavers, if you try and twist that to being related to my performance, it is FACT you are an idiot.

[Deleted]

Its insane how much of a skill different it can be with ppl on the same mmr. Are there any plans to actually fix this? Gwtting tiresome to get teamed with people who barely has a grasp of the game. Losing like 30 rating because the system decided to throw some complete idiots with you is just stupid. They need to bring back the avoid player feature so you don't have to play with all thesr kind of people.

Not sure what could be done. I don't really know how it currently works, so it's hard to suggest any improvements.
Matchmaking only has numbers to go on and as you probably know by now, that's not an entirely reliable way to do it. Especially not in a game where teamplay is key to victory. But there is no measureable way to estimate someones teamplay ability.

[Deleted]

Aren't we the wannabe pro-gamer. It is FACT I lost 110 points through leavers, if you try and twist that to being related to my performance, it is FACT you are an idiot.

"wannabe pro-gamer" for not just blindly whining here about the matchmaking. Epic argument. I'm sure you just lost those 110 points too, just like 82,5% of the statistics I see in the internet are made up.

[xChurch]

Please try to keep things civil, no need to insult other people's skill.

[Beazy]

Nope, they don't. They'll keep throwing around excuses like "MM can never be perfect, someone could just have a bad day/cat over keyboard/etc.". Fact is that the system is based on wins and loses, not personal skill. They could easily make it so you don't lose rating if you lose a game but you played well, same with a draw. But no, they won't because those special snowflakes feel entitled to their top 500 rank.

That is not a fact. I received silver rank 1980 after my 10 placement matches last night (01/19/2017). I lost 6 won 4. My friend who played all 10 with me, received 900 bronze. There is no way its based on W/L%.