Nighthold difficulty

[Coldkil]

Pugged first 4 bosses with an 865-ish median last night. Wiped some times but most of the time was lost in pointless waiting. All-in-all, i found it pretty spot on.

Worth noting: lost of guilds rushed through normal and some even heroic. Too bad they're all 880+ with 45+ traits, meaning they overgear the place by quite a bunch. NH imho is balanced around 865-ish ilvl and 30-35 traits, at least on normal.

Mythic+ is really skewing the whole game balance. Lots of players have been able to push to a really high ilvl/AP with a way faster progression compared to raids. To me it just looks like Blizzard didn't expect (and i wonder why lol) that players would just farm the shit out of them to get an advantage/faster progression.
Raids definitely are easier when you're already decked in good gear.

not saying NH is hard, especially normal. But set it in its proper context and i think it's tuned right.

[Deleted]

Not sure yet if it is just because it was normal mode, but the only thing that killed us yesterday was the trash, because people got lost in the instance and pulled mobs while half the raid was afk sitting in front of Star Augur. Was pretty funny now that I think about it. Most fights seem incredibly pointless from a tanks point of view, especially gul'dan where one of our tanks got kicked of the platform in the beginning of phase 2 and we could still just one tank the entire thing with melees that just didn't understand how the scythe works. First 2 bosses on HC are also incredibly faceroll. Not sure if our dps wanted to get kicked into the scorpions so they could pad, but to me it looked a lot like it.

Here is to hoping the later bosses put up a bit more of a fight.

[Toastyame]

It's almost like it's hard to tune around legendaries and paragon points.

:thinking:

[Deleted]

It's almost like it's hard to tune around legendaries and paragon points.

:thinking:

Yeah, I think you have a point there. Legiondaries working in raids was probably the worst thing to happen to this expansion.

[OrcsRLame]

Holy shit, this raid feels so undertuned, it's Emerald Nightmare all over again

I thought it's been pretty good so far. What was your progression in ToV and what's your progression here?

My guild was 2/3m in ToV, and after 2 days of 4 hours each we're 8/10 heroic. Got Elisande to like 7% on the last pull of the night, which is really more like 2%. Seems to be pretty good to me that the last few bosses on heroic are challenging to a guild like mine. Is normal a joke or something?

[Akka]

I won't rush to consequences before seeing Mythic, but damn... If there is no AoE, you have to tunnel the boss, end of story.
I hope we'll get new and interesting mechanics (I absolutely adore the time-manipulation on Chromatic Anomaly!) instead of bigger numbers and class-stacking.

Don't really see how spamming AoE abilities is better than tunneling the boss. If AoE was less efficient and you had to carefully plan about priority target, maybe, but for now it's just mindless and boring (and it makes playing a non-AoE spec feels like being second-rate).

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It's almost like it's hard to tune around legendaries and paragon points.

:thinking:

From the first page :

As other have said, the retarded Legion design when it comes to gear power means that the raid will be either vastly undertuned, or vastly overtuned, or a mix of overtuned and undertuned.
It's just not possible to tune a raid adequately with something like a 30 % in power variance.

/posturing
Yeah I called it !

[Deleted]

its NHC

lol.

[deadman1]

Holy shit, this raid feels so undertuned, it's Emerald Nightmare all over again

How did you get into mythic a week early?

[Nitros14]

Blizzard would be very wise to forget the current artifact and legendary model entirely next expansion and go back to WoD itemization.

[Zka]

We 1shot the first 4 normal bosses with a ~875 raid without more than a few people knowing anything about the bosses.
Krosus was 1 wipe. Then Tichondrius survived 4 pulls. So the first bosses are trivial in casual gear, but it starts getting harder after that.
We wiped more on trash than on bosses because trash is totally boring, so we tried to pull multiple groups which usually turned out to be a bad idea

[Deleted]

Normal felt like LFR, Bio boss and Guldan took 3 trys.

HC first few are still easy, step up in damage for sure but we still got 6 HC down with Star guy the first real test for the raid.

First 4 or 5 seems too easy, trash can be harder. But i expect the last 4 to be challenging (High Bot, Tich, Elis, Guldan)

[effs]

Only had time to get a normal group going, one shot most bosses until tichondrius and group disbanded at tel'arn (plus it was getting late). Pretty easy in normal. Will try and get some heroic in over the weekend. Funny thing was with Trilliax and aluriel, someone ninja pulled and we still killed them with half the group alive. Normal feels tuned for 860 + 30 traits or so.

[Isadora]

Holy shit, so many people complaining about this being too easy. Am I missing something or was my server the only one were mythic wasn't released yet...?

Don't kid yourselves. Good mythic guilds have always been cruising through heroic before mythic was available, the only thing that changed is that more of us "common" people now have comparable gear too, because m+ made it more available. That doesn't change the fact that come next wednesday, the tuning's gonna be a lot harder (it's mythic, duh), there will be additional mechanics (duh), which might make a somewhat trivial boss like Tichondrius a lot harder and you're fixed to a 20 man roster, so there's no chessing strats by having a surplus of people.

I suggest you get off your high horses and wait with your assessment. If NH mythic is indeed a joke, okay, fine, let's blame blizzard for artifacts and mythic+ (two aspects of the game I myself thoroughly enjoy, since I still find lots of stuff I want to do, 5 months after release). But until then, let's not get out the "OMG IT'S SO EASY"-pitchforks prematurely, shall we?

[Echo of Soul]

Holy shit, so many people complaining about this being too easy. Am I missing something or was my server the only one were mythic wasn't released yet...?

Not everyone raid mythic. It should be challenging for heroic or even normal guilds too. But with legendaries, paragon levels and titanforging I understand that that's pretty much impossible. They have to tune it for the least common denominator, guilds that have had the shittiest of luck with the RNG in the world.

[thilicen]

Normal felt like LFR, Bio boss and Guldan took 3 trys.

HC first few are still easy, step up in damage for sure but we still got 6 HC down with Star guy the first real test for the raid.

First 4 or 5 seems too easy, trash can be harder. But i expect the last 4 to be challenging (High Bot, Tich, Elis, Guldan)

This, seems like a fine ramp-up. High Bot should get pretty damn interesting on mythic.

[Dracodraco]

This, seems like a fine ramp-up. High Bot should get pretty damn interesting on mythic.

High botanist in general is great, as it's a very rigid "don't fall behind" 1-2-3-4 1-2-3-4 sort of fight thats taxing to keep up with - with the one exception being the damn "stand close together with someone else"-debuff that doesn't provide immunity to the root debuff. After 50%, it's all about keeping up with the mechanics for ranged while you let melee/dots cleave down 3x targets;

1: Kill a plasma orb.
2: Kill a plasma orb.
3: Dispel and kill adds.
4: Dodge controlled chaos.
5: Dodge the solar ring.

Repeat.
The spores and debuffs breaks up the rythm which I dislike, but they obviously make the encounter more difficult. Having to deal with it all from the start is going to be absolutely nuts.

[Deleted]

As other have said, the retarded Legion design when it comes to gear power means that the raid will be either vastly undertuned, or vastly overtuned, or a mix of overtuned and undertuned.
It's just not possible to tune a raid adequately with something like a 30 % in power variance.

It is. You just tune it for heavy geared raid group and thats it. Who gives **** that you dont have traits and gear you had and you have more then enough time to gear up. This raid tier will be there for atlest 6 months. You have penlty of time to gear yourself.

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Holy shit, so many people complaining about this being too easy. Am I missing something or was my server the only one were mythic wasn't released yet...?

Don't kid yourselves. Good mythic guilds have always been cruising through heroic before mythic was available, the only thing that changed is that more of us "common" people now have comparable gear too, because m+ made it more available. That doesn't change the fact that come next wednesday, the tuning's gonna be a lot harder (it's mythic, duh), there will be additional mechanics (duh), which might make a somewhat trivial boss like Tichondrius a lot harder and you're fixed to a 20 man roster, so there's no chessing strats by having a surplus of people.

I suggest you get off your high horses and wait with your assessment. If NH mythic is indeed a joke, okay, fine, let's blame blizzard for artifacts and mythic+ (two aspects of the game I myself thoroughly enjoy, since I still find lots of stuff I want to do, 5 months after release). But until then, let's not get out the "OMG IT'S SO EASY"-pitchforks prematurely, shall we?

Nobady cares about Mythic. It is same **** as normal or heroic. Same content. Raid is easy finished both normal and heroic on day 1. Stop making game or raid hard just becouse it have mythic difficulty. Your overall game difficulty is always determined by lowest possible difficulty not the highet.

[CptAwesome]

It is. You just tune it for heavy geared raid group and thats it. Who gives **** that you dont have traits and gear you had and you have more then enough time to gear up. This raid tier will be there for atlest 6 months. You have penlty of time to gear yourself.

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Nobady cares about Mythic. It is same **** as normal or heroic. Same content. Raid is easy finished both normal and heroic on day 1. Stop making game or raid hard just becouse it have mythic difficulty. Your overall game difficulty is always determined by lowest possible difficulty not the highet.

No, you have it all wrong. It's heroic and normal that no one gives a fuck about. Mythic is the only one that matters.

[Deleted]

Tuning is like En, spot on for us casuals.

Went in around 865 ilvl for the raid as a whole, some of us don't even have three golden traits yet. We went in and killed first 3 bosses on normal, then got stuck cos the journal and the vids we watched both have different tactics than the actual fight and we had to come up with new ones. We'll go back tonight and kill a few more and then probably hit a wall due to being low on gear and numbers.

More please, Blizzard. This is perfect. I was a little concerned we'd be facing another TOV level of trickiness which would have seen us all unsub.

[OrcsRLame]

Tuning is like En, spot on for us casuals.

Went in around 865 ilvl for the raid as a whole, some of us don't even have three golden traits yet. We went in and killed first 3 bosses on normal, then got stuck cos the journal and the vids we watched both have different tactics than the actual fight and we had to come up with new ones. We'll go back tonight and kill a few more and then probably hit a wall due to being low on gear and numbers.

More please, Blizzard. This is perfect. I was a little concerned we'd be facing another TOV level of trickiness which would have seen us all unsub.

As a fairly hardcore player, (2/3m in ToV, 7/7m in EN) I personally am very satisfied with the tuning of the raid so far.

The difficulty goes up steadily throughout the instance. On heroic my guild one shotted Skorpyron and Anomaly, and did every boss after that in 2-5 pulls until we got to Tichondrius, which was boss 6 for us. He took us 8 pulls, and Star Augur and Botanist took us a similar amount of effort. Elisande is where we started to really struggle, but I'm 100% confident we'll kill her next week, (2 day raiding guild, so we're done for the week) and we could probably get her with another 3-5 pulls. Gul'dan looks like he might take some doing, but he'll go down for us next week most likely.

If mythic is tuned similarly, I expect we'll make slow but steady progress through it. We probably won't kill mythic Gul'dan pre nerf, but we will get it before Tomb of Sargeras.

If you didn't notice, NH has scaling ilvl like HFC. The first 3 bosses drop 870 on normal, the next 6 drop 875, and Gul'dan drops 880. In general, I don't really like scaling ilvl, but if for whatever reason that allows Blizzard to curve out the difficulty of the instance better, then I'm all for it.