So there's some real feral tears on the Official US general forum, but not much here?

[exochaft]

Part of the reason Feral is likely parsing poorly compared to other classes is that there's very little pure ST encounters. Many encounters have a constant stream of adds, or at the very least more than one target and/or target switching where other classes/specs can easily deal with. Add on top tons of mechanics that force people to run out of the raid or away from targets in general over which you have no control, have fun ramping up again. NH is just not Feral-friendly from what I've seen, best you can do is beg to stay on the boss unless a mechanic forces you to literally run away.

[lotj]

Part of the reason Feral is likely parsing poorly compared to other classes is that there's very little pure ST encounters.

Krosus is as ST of a fight as we ever see and feral peaks right at the midpoint and falls into the bottom quarter when you look at the higher percentiles.

That's the rub. We're barely average even on fights we should excel at, and the other melee classes that don't have hobbled aoe blow us out of the water. Throw in our complicated rotation, Legion's general design regarding specs, and it's just extremely frustrating.

[Lycanoth]

Part of the reason Feral is likely parsing poorly compared to other classes is that there's very little pure ST encounters. Many encounters have a constant stream of adds, or at the very least more than one target and/or target switching where other classes/specs can easily deal with. Add on top tons of mechanics that force people to run out of the raid or away from targets in general over which you have no control, have fun ramping up again. NH is just not Feral-friendly from what I've seen, best you can do is beg to stay on the boss unless a mechanic forces you to literally run away.

NH is not the best raid for Feral but to chalk it down to the specs underperformance like that is flat out wrong. I would agree with you if every boss was hectic padding AoE like Skorpyron but it is not.

Sin Rogue another ST spec is still upper mid of the pack. Why? because there are several bosses that have high priority targets and cleave.

Feral is undertuned. That is the problem.

[lotj]

NH is not the best raid for Feral but to chalk it down to the specs underperformance like that is flat out wrong. I would agree with you if every boss was hectic padding AoE like Skorpyron but it is not.

Sin Rogue another ST spec is still upper mid of the pack. Why? because there are several bosses that have high priority targets and cleave.

Feral is undertuned. That is the problem.

Big sign is on ST/Cleave fights Feral climbs up but is still sitting down there with or below the more AoE focused classes.

- - - Updated - - -

Spent some time looking through parses because of the big reddit feral thread.

Basically, we did actually get nerfed in 7.1.5.

Open warcraftlogs in two windows and look at the rankings for EN or ToV (EDIT : Not ToV -- it was nerfed) at whatever difficulty you want. Change the rankings to use Per Second Amounts instead of the aggregate, change it to be a week to make sure the time period is about the same, and look at the values. Pick a fight or use the aggregate - it doesn't really matter as long as you don't pick Evil Tree.

Feral is pretty consistent pre & post 7.1.5, right?

Now change the display to Fight Speed. Fight Speed went down by about 15-20% across the board, with the exception being fights that have timed intervals where you may need to stop dps.

When fight speed goes down, unless you gain or lose a cooldown phase the percentage of time you spend in those cooldown phases goes up. Checking around, I didn't see a fight that really crosses that boundary for ferals above the 50-percentile mark.

For a fight, if the percentage of time we spend in a cooldown phase went up and our damage stayed constant, that means our baseline, non-cd damage was actually decreased as a result of the change.

Basically, raid damage (cd's included) went up by 15-20% as the result of 7.1.5, but feral's individual contribution was constant.

[Kraineth]

When fight speed goes down, unless you gain or lose a cooldown phase the percentage of time you spend in those cooldown phases goes up. Checking around, I didn't see a fight that really crosses that boundary for ferals above the 50-percentile mark.

For a fight, if the percentage of time we spend in a cooldown phase went up and our damage stayed constant, that means our baseline, non-cd damage was actually decreased as a result of the change.

Basically, raid damage (cd's included) went up by 15-20% as the result of 7.1.5, but feral's individual contribution was constant.

These are some pretty incorrect assumptions to make. Berserk is one of the weakest cooldowns in the game. Gaining or losing percentage uptime based on fight duration has very little impact on Feral dps, which is why you see other specs burst extremely high, and then drop like a stone after a minute or so. Feral barely even bursts 1million on the opener with lust+berserk.

We aren't a cooldown dependent class. And any good Feral will tell you that shorter fights are not good for us.

[Weissrolf]

Well, it does make a difference whether a fight lasts 3 minutes or 3:30, but yes, Feral is one of the most constant DPS specs. This even carries over several tries/wipes and encounters. Others may go up and down, Ferals stay quite constant.

Unfortunately this also is a sign of how "rotation" like our button-pushing turns out to be. The whole thing about snapshots, pooling and refreshing seems complex, but in the end you more or less keep pressing the same buttons in the same order. For a fight like Ursoc you could nearly write a 3 minute macro unless you are charged by him in between.

[Myztikrice]

Doesn't DPS depend on ashmane procs?

[lotj]

These are some pretty incorrect assumptions to make. Berserk is one of the weakest cooldowns in the game. Gaining or losing percentage uptime based on fight duration has very little impact on Feral dps, which is why you see other specs burst extremely high, and then drop like a stone after a minute or so. Feral barely even bursts 1million on the opener with lust+berserk.

We aren't a cooldown dependent class. And any good Feral will tell you that shorter fights are not good for us.

Naa - the assumption is valid. It doesn't matter if we're not a burst class if we actually do have fixed-time periods of significantly higher dps. What changes is how much those impact us, which is where the sustained dps comes in - it doesn't impact us as much, but it does impact us.

What I've started to argue is we actually just got nerfed in 7.1.5. Logs seem to support it. Sims (SimulationCraft & AskMrRobot) support it, if you fix the issues with them (SimC added support for Fangs of the First in 715, AMR uses 7.1.5 gear values in their 7.1.0 profile). Target dummy seems to support it.

The idea that we didn't get buffed as much as everyone else just seems wrong.

[Zensunni]

Just jump ship on feral. I wanted to love it, I tried to make it work, but it was very, very clear to me early in Legion that this was a spec that wasn't destined to do well this xpac. Blizz's commitment to balancing specs in Legion is patently, obviously, clearly zero. So if you aren't happy with where feral is, just switch. Your druid will be there next time the dev team gets bored and restructures the spec. This isn't a troll post, I'm dead serious - I'm *so* glad I quit on feral this xpac and I urge those dissatisfied with it to do the same.

[teddabear]

Part of the reason Feral is likely parsing poorly compared to other classes is that there's very little pure ST encounters. Many encounters have a constant stream of adds, or at the very least more than one target and/or target switching where other classes/specs can easily deal with. Add on top tons of mechanics that force people to run out of the raid or away from targets in general over which you have no control, have fun ramping up again. NH is just not Feral-friendly from what I've seen, best you can do is beg to stay on the boss unless a mechanic forces you to literally run away.

There were plenty of players including myself posting in the Beta forum that Feral was going to be in a bad place after the first tier single target fiesta came to an end. Still even single target appears to be quite bad now. Probably the best that can hoped for is a single target buff which won't do much to fix the real problems. Even that is questionable since it was already pretty obvious it was needed before the last round of buffs went out.