MM/BM what talent choices for NH? per boss

[kristo]

Hello guys,

Based on recent changes (7.1.5 and post hotfix) what would be the "got to" talent choice for MM/BM per boss in NH?

I was reading Azor's Icy Veins guides and for me only Krosus seems to heave the most obvious setup choice, as a pure ST fight MM should choose True Aim, Patient Sniper, AMoC and Trick Shot and BM should go for Way of the Cobra/Dire Stable, Dire Frenzy, Bestial Fury, AMoC and Killer Cobra.

What about other bosses, what would be the most optimal talent choice for them? as for MM, every other boss requires some sort of aoe/cleave, so for example for MM True Aim will loose its usefulness? and for BM Volley/Stampede will shine on some fights?

thanks for any input/advice,
regards,
k.

[ydraw]

Volley/Stampede for Skorpyron for sure. Haven't done any others yet

[Deleted]

For MM

#Skorpyron Heroic AOE
LNL
Patient Sniper/Explosive
Volley
Trickshot

#Chronomatic Anomaly AOE
LNL
Patient Sniper/Explosive
Volley
Trickshot

#Trilliax ST
True Aim
Patient Sniper
A Murderer of Crows
Trickshot

#Spellblade Aluriel AOE
LNL
Patient Sniper/Explosive
Volley
Trickshot

#Tichondrius AOE
LNL
Patient Sniper/Explosive
Volley
Trickshot

#Star Augur Etraeus ST
True Aim
Patient Sniper
A Murderer of Crows
Trickshot

#Krosus ST
True Aim
Patient Sniper
A Murderer of Crows
Trickshot

#High Botanist Tel'arn AOE
LNL
Patient Sniper/Explosive
Volley
Trickshot

[kristo]

Thanks InTeNsO for your input.

Do you have something for Elisandre/Guldan as well? For Eli I there are 2? adds that spawn, so going for some aoe (Volley) or staying on ST build would do the trick? Guldan spawn some adds as well, so Volley or Barrage?

And for other aoe fights, where there is Volley picked up, we assume that adds will be stacked enough to fully utilize Volley? Thus no Barrage being chosen?

Last thing, when using Volley as a MM, should it be on all the time, even when dpsing boss alone, or should it on and off for/after adds?

regards,
k.

[Kirbypro]

This is only relevant for normal/heroic farming, going with the flex build for BM would be the best. It does pretty good single target and is flexible enough to do respectable multi target. You won't have to switch talents all the time and waste tomes.

Flex build:
Dire Stable > Stomp > Blink Strikes > AMoC > Killer Cobra

Just looking at it logically:
Dire Stable works better with Stomp
Stomp pulls ahead on any fight with adds
Blink strikes and Bestial Wrath are pretty close without 2set and BS is better for adds
AMoC because there are a lot of priority target
Killer Cobra for priority target

[Sabinn]

I dont know how usefull Stampede could be on those aoe fights, maybe for scorpyron? I would have to test but the big issue would be adds not surviving the full stampede and adds moving out of the stampede zone.

Stampede isnt reliable.

Volley is amazing for every aoe boss but botanist I would guess, Crows still shine there since you only hit 3 bosses close to the end.

So my choices for talents on NightHold would be.

#Skorpyron Heroic AOE
Dire Stable
Stomp
Blink Strikes
Volley
Killer Cobra/Stampede

#Chronomatic Anomaly AOE
Dire Stable/Way of the cobra
Stomp
Blink Strikes
A murder of crows
Killer Cobra

#Trilliax ST
Way of the cobra
Dire Frenzy
Bestial Fury
Murder of Crows
Killer Cobra

#Spellblade Aluriel AOE
dire stable
Stomp
Blink Strikes
Volley
Killer Cobra


#Tichondrius AOE
Dire stable/way of the cobra
Stomp
Blink Strikes
Murder of crows/Volley
Killer Cobra

#Star Augur Etraeus ST
Way of the cobra
Dire Frenzy
Bestial Fury
Murder of Crows
Killer Cobra

#Krosus ST
Way of the cobra
Dire Frenzy
Bestial Fury
Murder of Crows
Killer Cobra

#High Botanist Tel'arn AOE
Dire stable
Stomp
Blink Strikes
Murder of crows
Killer Cobra

[kristo]

Thanks Kirbypro,

I was referring to MM using Volley as suggested in InTeNsO reply why choose Volley over Barrage and if to have it being on all the time on tunring on and off for adds only? in terms of focus management/dps output.

However I noted this for BM part, flex build should be a starter point on every fight, on the other hand, recent changes to cost of re-spec tomes makes them imo much more available, thus allows us more ad-hoc changes, depending on boss fight,

regards,
k.

[kristo]

So guys, any advice for Elisane/Gul'dan in terms of talent choices? thanks

[brigada]

Spellblade Aluriel in that list: Stampede works perfectly fine on the spawning adds

[kristo]

Ok, but isn't 3min CD not enough for more(?) frequent spawning adds on this or any other aoe fight? How is 3min CD viable when on most aoe fights adds will spawn more often (correct me if I'm wrong here)?

[Leakage]

Thanks Kirbypro,

I was referring to MM using Volley as suggested in InTeNsO reply why choose Volley over Barrage and if to have it being on all the time on tunring on and off for adds only? in terms of focus management/dps output.

However I noted this for BM part, flex build should be a starter point on every fight, on the other hand, recent changes to cost of re-spec tomes makes them imo much more available, thus allows us more ad-hoc changes, depending on boss fight,

regards,
k.

you never turn volley off

[eschatological]

Ok, but isn't 3min CD not enough for more(?) frequent spawning adds on this or any other aoe fight? How is 3min CD viable when on most aoe fights adds will spawn more often (correct me if I'm wrong here)?

You can use it on the pull and it's up for the first set of Arcane adds, which is the real DPS check in the fight.

[Finbezz]

Sidewinders is never used.

LW/LNL/PS/Volley/TS on everything but Trilliax, Star Auger, and Magistrix. Swap in True Aim and amoc for Trilliax. Just amoc for Auger and Magistrix. Ultimately it's a 4-5% dps increase to swap to single target talents. I haven't been bothering on our heroic splits.

[cLax0n]

Sidewinders is never used.

LW/LNL/PS/Volley/TS on everything but Trilliax, Star Auger, and Magistrix. Swap in True Aim and amoc for Trilliax. Just amoc for Auger and Magistrix. Ultimately it's a 4-5% dps increase to swap to single target talents. I haven't been bothering on our heroic splits.

Literally this. Also I want to add that while it is a 4-5% DPS increase to pure single target to take TA and AMoC, taking Volley and LnL instead is a much larger increase for any multi-target fight. So if you don't wanna bother your group to summon you back before every other boss, or if you're too cheap to carry tomes (tome prices dropped significantly though), or even if you just forget, you should be fine.

I'm loving 7.1.5 MM much more than the previous. I just hated Sidewinders so much, it felt so unnatural.

[HalationEffect]

Literally this. Also I want to add that while it is a 4-5% DPS increase to pure single target to take TA and AMoC, taking Volley and LnL instead is a much larger increase for any multi-target fight. So if you don't wanna bother your group to summon you back before every other boss, or if you're too cheap to carry tomes (tome prices dropped significantly though), or even if you just forget, you should be fine.

I'm loving 7.1.5 MM much more than the previous. I just hated Sidewinders so much, it felt so unnatural.

different strokes and all, but you think spamming arcane shot and overwriting procs is more natural than the butter smooth gameplay of SW?

It takes 2 GCDs to place hunters mark on target with new build, only 1 with sidewinders. How is this an upgrade?

[cLax0n]

different strokes and all, but you think spamming arcane shot and overwriting procs is more natural than the butter smooth gameplay of SW?

It takes 2 GCDs to place hunters mark on target with new build, only 1 with sidewinders. How is this an upgrade?

7.1.5 significantly increased the PPM of Marking Shots, and also has a sort of overwrite protection. The MAIN reason Sidewinders was ever good was because it meant near 100% uptime of Vulnerable. Now we have the same benefit of near 100% uptime of Vulnerable without barely ever to have to fish for procs.

Yes, it takes 2 GCD to place Hunters mark, but with True Aim you build your stacks (also stacks of Bullseye) much quicker with Arcane Shot. Arcane shot also synergizes better with legendaries such as the boots and the NH trinket. Another thing is it allows for more aoe damage and more mobility because you are able to capitalize on every single Marked Shots proc if you need to. Trick shot also provides great supplemental sustained aoe damage. With the new Patient Sniper, you can use arcane shot to get you the exact amount of focus you need to fit the variable amount of aimed shots into your vulnerable window which depends on how much haste you have without actually being forced to refresh vulnerable. Sidewinders doesn't even generate enough focus for 1 aimed shot, that combined with having a lower focus pool (130 instead of 150). For all these reasons combined, sidewinders falls short.

And yes, it feels more natural. Before we were spamming Arcane Shot, we were spamming Steady Shot for focus.

[Deleted]

7.1.5 significantly increased the PPM of Marking Shots, and also has a sort of overwrite protection. The MAIN reason Sidewinders was ever good was because it meant near 100% uptime of Vulnerable. Now we have the same benefit of near 100% uptime of Vulnerable without barely ever to have to fish for procs.

Yes, it takes 2 GCD to place Hunters mark, but with True Aim you build your stacks much quicker with Arcane Shot. Arcane shot also synergizes better with legendaries such as the boots and the NH trinket. Another thing is it allows for more aoe damage and more mobility because you are able to capitalize on every single Marked Shots proc if you need to. Trick shot also provides great supplemental sustained aoe damage. With the new Patient Sniper, you can use arcane shot to get you the exact amount of focus you need to fit the variable amount of aimed shots into your vulnerable window which depends on how much haste you have without actually being forced to refresh vulnerable. Sidewinders doesn't even generate enough focus for 1 aimed shot, that combined with having a lower focus pool (130 instead of 150). For all these reasons combined, sidewinders falls short.

And yes, it feels more natural. Before we were spamming Arcane Shot, we were spamming Steady Shot for focus.

ye I kinda agree if it wasn't for the new patient sniper then I'd actually enjoy 7.1.5 more than I did 7.0
arcaneshot isn't bad but I kinda dislike the fact that we have to hit an aimshot during the last vulnerable second for optimal dps since it kinda limits our movement quite much.

Every single time I have to move during the last 3 seconds of vulnerable I wanna cry.

[Deleted]

Only did up to Botanist so far as BM..

For me volley was amazing and next run will probably use except for cake and bridge boss

[vashe9]

Is WoTC worth it with DF ?

Because you lose +20% CobraShot damage without the 2 dire beasts (if you count the one that can proc if you're lucky), if I'm not mistaken

[kristo]

One more thing with regard of DF, once we acquire 2/4p set, BM should never choose Dire Frenzy, regardless of ST or AoE fight?