Elemental Plains and Helya

[Shelly]

OK, so Helya worked with Ra to separate out the elemental plains from primordial Azeroth during a war with the Old Gods to remove the elementals as servants of the OGs.

She later uses that same curse to imprison Odyn in the Halls of Valor.

We kill Helya, which removes the curse on the Halls, so shouldn't we be ass deep in warring elementals any day now?

[Drefanator]

The shaman order hall quests is you going around uniting all the elements under you. I'm not sure if that means much and whether or not they'd all just start popping up more than they do already.

[Combatbutler]

First she separates part of Ulduar and creates a new plane using it as its base. Then at a later point she lays a curse over the Halls. The Halls will not disappear because their creation is not sustained by Helya's magic; the magic that created them was contained in that act of creation. Meanwhile the Curse seems to be a constant struggle against Odyn's ability to shift away from the Plane of the Halls of Valor; indeed it is a struggle that she occasionally loses since Odyn and his Valarjar have on numerous occasions managed to shift out of the Halls (he just doesn't seem capable of moving his entire army and himself out at a moment's notice, but he repeatedly sends champions out)

Helya did not take parts of Ulduar, Odyn did it when he threw a fit, all Helya did was put a curse on it.

[Combatbutler]

Reread the Chronicle, pg. 47. Helya ripped the Halls of Valor and lifted them to the sky

I did read chronicle and Odyn was the one to take parts Ulduar because the other keepers decided to create the dragon aspects and Odyn wanted none of that rather doing his own thing to protect the planet, because only the titan forged had the power to do it properly in his opinion.

[Combatbutler]

By the Light, are you going to force me to type a direct quote?

"Odyn secured one of Ulduar's wings to act as the base of his new army. To permanently separate it from the rest of the fortress and from the other keepers, he called on the titan-forged sorceress Helya. Over the ages, Odyn had come to see her as his adopted daughter. Helya wove a great spell to encase the keeper's stronghold. Then, focusing all of her power, she ripped the colossal chunk of Ulduar from the earth and lifted it into the cloudy skies. In time, this floating citadel would become known as the Halls of Valor"

Again Odyn took it, Helya might have helped him but he was the one to give the order, he was the one to decide to steal a wing of the city, he was the one to decide later on to create the valajar, he was the one to kill helya afterwards and enslaved her for millennia and then after all that had happened Helya did the deciding thing by putting a curse on it.

[Combatbutler]

I guess you cannot read well. I am sure there are some english lessons available somewhere where you live, good luck with that.

I was making a trivial point, since it sounded like it was Helya's idea to separate the halls from ulduar to begin with.

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

why exactly did they make odyn the good guy anyways?

[Shelly]

why exactly did they make odyn the good guy anyways?

He's a flawed and tragic hero that is meant to mirror Odin - who is constantly just looking for ways in Norse mythology to cheese Ragnarok and have his people survive.

Anyway, it's best not to think of him or the Titans in general as good. Rather they are a primal source of order directly opposed to another primal source of a different kind of order (the OGs). We just tend to think of the Titans as good because they are more or less descended through The Light and the OGs are descended through The Void.

I mean Algalon tells us specifically that he's seen countless inhabited worlds, presumably titan shaped worlds, that have diverged from their Titan path through OG interference being "bathed in the makers flames." The Titans have absolutely no regrets or even hard feelings over destroying billions upon billions of sentient beings. This is a fact.

Then again if you wanted to clear a section of your yard to put in a shed and had to take out an ant-hill to do so would that make you evil?

Basically compared to the Titans in power and scope of comprehension we are as bugs and they are beyond our conceptions of morality. Same with their keepers.

Also with Odyn it's to show that he's a maverick willing to make hard decisions of what he thinks would be best to ensure the continuation of the Titan plans on Azeroth.

[Benomatic]

By the Light, are you going to force me to type a direct quote?

"Odyn secured one of Ulduar's wings to act as the base of his new army. To permanently separate it from the rest of the fortress and from the other keepers, he called on the titan-forged sorceress Helya. Over the ages, Odyn had come to see her as his adopted daughter. Helya wove a great spell to encase the keeper's stronghold. Then, focusing all of her power, she ripped the colossal chunk of Ulduar from the earth and lifted it into the cloudy skies. In time, this floating citadel would become known as the Halls of Valor"

Also wasn't Loken already corrupted at this point?

[Qualia]

Also wasn't Loken already corrupted at this point?

No. Loken was corrupted long time after that (probably some thousands years IIRC).

[Raine2099]

Again Odyn took it, Helya might have helped him but he was the one to give the order, he was the one to decide to steal a wing of the city, he was the one to decide later on to create the valajar, he was the one to kill helya afterwards and enslaved her for millennia and then after all that had happened Helya did the deciding thing by putting a curse on it.

Omg dude. Just admit you were wrong ffs.

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I was making a trivial point, since it sounded like it was Helya's idea to separate the halls from ulduar to begin with.

Seriously. Re-Read everything please. You can tell because he quoted the exact page and text that he knows what hes talking about.

[Radaney]

Omg dude. Just admit you were wrong ffs.

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Seriously. Re-Read everything please. You can tell because he quoted the exact page and text that he knows what hes talking about.

No, Combatbulter was referring to the fact that Nymrohd made it sound like it was Helya's idea to raise the Halls of Valor into the Sky when it was Odyn's, Odyn just got Helya to do it. Now you people are being retarded.

[Qualia]

No, Combatbulter was referring to the fact that Nymrohd made it sound like it was Helya's idea to raise the Halls of Valor into the Sky when it was Odyn's, Odyn just got Helya to do it. Now you people are being retarded.

And why would it matter for whose idea was it in the on-going discussion? People weren't even talking about that. Nymrohd was pointing out to the one he originally replied that Helya was the one raised HoV up to the sky, and the Hall didn't fall even after she's dead. It doesn't matter whose idea was it - what matters is the spell was Helya's, not Odyn's, and it is still here. That's proof of "Killing someone does not necessarily mean that all their magic suddenly fades" (quoting Nymrohd). With that said, it isn't a surprise that the Elementals aren't all porting back to Azeroth - which was what the OP was wondering about.

[Radaney]

And why would it matter for whose idea was it in the on-going discussion? People weren't even talking about that. Nymrohd was pointing out to the one he originally replied that Helya was the one raised HoV up to the sky, and the Hall didn't fall even after she's dead. It doesn't matter whose idea was it - what matters is the spell was Helya's, not Odyn's, and it is still here. That's proof of "Killing someone does not necessarily mean that all their magic suddenly fades" (quoting Nymrohd). With that said, it isn't a surprise that the Elementals aren't all porting back to Azeroth - which was what the OP was wondering about.

Yeh the only thing that disappeared when Helya died was the curse she put on Odyn that he couldn't leave the Halls.

[Kralljin]

why exactly did they make odyn the good guy anyways?

Because they couldn't come up with any other idea for the Warrior Order Hall.

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

this sounds like the real answer

[Aquinan]

Yeh the only thing that disappeared when Helya died was the curse she put on Odyn that he couldn't leave the Halls.

\

He does kinda leave though, cause he's Havi isn't he? The quest for the opening of ToV actually has him shapeshift momentarily. I guess he just cant stay like that permanently or something.

[Magical Mudcrab]

OK, so Helya worked with Ra to separate out the elemental plains from primordial Azeroth during a war with the Old Gods to remove the elementals as servants of the OGs.

She later uses that same curse to imprison Odyn in the Halls of Valor.

We kill Helya, which removes the curse on the Halls, so shouldn't we be ass deep in warring elementals any day now?

If I make an electrical circuit that powers an electromagnetically locked door, does the circuit stop working because I'm dead?
The point is that just because you die, that doesn't mean your magic dissipates. There are some exceptions, like if concentration is required or if one of your spells requirements is that you must be alive for it to persist.

Some examples of magic persisting after the casters have died:
The Old God's corruption doesn't just go away after their death, it needs to be intentionally cleansed (ie: the Sha, Cho'gall's mutations).
Another example is the blight created in the Plaguelands, caused by the Cult of the Damned. This blight was caused during the Third War, and the Druids have been working tirelessly to cleanse the blight from the land.
The list goes on.