The newly retuned dungeons in 7.2

[Marston]

Hello there.

Since Blizzard said that all dungeons will get a retuning with 7.2, I wanted to take a look if that actually has been implemented already, at least as a first pass. Turns out, yes it has.

- There are no changes to normal mode.
- 7.2 Heroic mode has the same HP as current Mythic mode. Here are the stats of the current Heroic mode.
- 7.2 Mythic mode has roughly 30% higher HP. Here is a comparison of a mob: Current Mythic mode vs. 7.2 Mythic mode

No idea about the damage and I am pretty sure there won't be any skill changes to mythic/heroic only skills. Also, this is a really early look, but something has been done. What Mythic+ equivalent would the 7.2 Mythic mode be? +3? +4?

Any thoughts on this?

Edit:
Oh yeah, Itemlevel changes:

- Normal now drops 825+
- Heroic now drops 845+
- Mythic now drops 865+

[Shanko]

None of this matters, Maw of Souls to 54---> Maw of Souls+ to 75 or however many they put in. Welcome to the endless Grind of Warcraft.

[Deleted]

None of this matters, Maw of Souls to 54---> Maw of Souls+ to 75 or however many they put in. Welcome to the endless Grind of Warcraft.

For the rest of us who do shower and have access to sunlight this doesn't apply.

[Softbottom]

For the rest of us who do shower and have access to sunlight this doesn't apply.

lol 10 chars

[Kazuchika]

None of this matters, Maw of Souls to 54---> Maw of Souls+ to 75 or however many they put in. Welcome to the endless Grind of Warcraft.

For who? The "Woe is me I need neckbeard senpai to notice me in a video game because I can't accomplish anything meaningful outside of it?" tryhard crowd?

[Kallisto]

For the rest of us who do shower and have access to sunlight this doesn't apply.

What don't you get it. Anyone who has any kind of real life commitment aren't supposed to play MMOs.

[Chickat]

865 is no where near high enough to be worth doing. People will be getting 940+ gear in ToS. Needs to be at least 880 base to even consider being worth doing.

[Emerald Archer]

865 is no where near high enough to be worth doing. People will be getting 940+ gear in ToS. Needs to be at least 880 base to even consider being worth doing.

It's not for people who are currently playing.. It's for new players and peoples alts to quickly get geared and caught up easier without having to step into mythic+ or raids. 865 is a more than fine ilvl for people to get as base, then after they can move into m+ which they'll be geared very well for the earlier ones, then use that to step into raiding.

[Chickat]

It's not for people who are currently playing.. It's for new players and peoples alts to quickly get geared and caught up easier without having to step into mythic+ or raids. 865 is a more than fine ilvl for people to get as base, then after they can move into m+ which they'll be geared very well for the earlier ones, then use that to step into raiding.

The thing is. People do mythic + now and get heroic item level geared out of it nearly. At least normal. Normal Tomb is going to be at least 915-920. The top mythic+ dungeon is going to be under 900. That isn't up to par with how good mythic + currently is. People will drop it like a wet sack if it doesn't drop good gear for end game content at the highest levels. Honestly, it should be base 860 atm anyways for Nighthold to keep it as good as it was with the release of Nightmare.

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The whole point of mythic+ was for people to be able to use it as an alternate end game path. Now, if they want to bump it by another 15-25 once the raid actually unlocks in 7.2.5 thats totally fine and makes sense. Its just the numbers make no sense when you see how good gear from Tomb will be, and 865-885 stuff wouldn't be good enough to even do heroic Tomb. Proabably be on the low side for normal tomb.

[Raugnaut]

Yea, I don't get it - Increasing the ilvl is good and all, but increasing the baseline difficulty will make it MORE difficult for new players to get in, baring a gear catchup outside of dungeons. As it stands, you can run reg Mythics pretty quickly after hitting 110 - About 820 is decent providing you are skilled. With this new change, you will need 840, at least, to comfortably run reg Mythics. And if there is no outside source of gear besides WQs, its going to take your average player some time to catchup.

Also, it makes doing the achieves more of a bitch - I would strongly suggest getting them done now.

Now, I get that they want to keep dungeons relevant - Thats whats mythic+ is for. With increased ilvl, you can go up higher and higher ranks, getting better and better gear. Baseline heroic? Small AP boost per day, and good for fresh 110s. Baseline Mythic? Good for 110s with a foot in the door, and great for achieve farmers. Increasing the difficulty on those two? Solves nothing (Mythic+ is still where you want to be, ppl behind have a harder time catching up.)

Guess I need to see what they have to help with catchup.

[Emerald Archer]

The thing is. People do mythic + now and get heroic item level geared out of it nearly. At least normal. Normal Tomb is going to be at least 915-920. The top mythic+ dungeon is going to be under 900. That isn't up to par with how good mythic + currently is. People will drop it like a wet sack if it doesn't drop good gear for end game content at the highest levels. Honestly, it should be base 860 atm anyways for Nighthold to keep it as good as it was with the release of Nightmare.

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The whole point of mythic+ was for people to be able to use it as an alternate end game path. Now, if they want to bump it by another 15-25 once the raid actually unlocks in 7.2.5 thats totally fine and makes sense. Its just the numbers make no sense when you see how good gear from Tomb will be, and 865-885 stuff wouldn't be good enough to even do heroic Tomb. Proabably be on the low side for normal tomb.

Isn't the end of week chest already at 900ilvl with the last buffs? So obviously in 7.2 it would go up again, and what you get would also go up. But with its farmability it would HAVE to be lower ilvl than raid, cause you can farm so hard for titanforge.

New alts and players, can't exactly walk into m+ with ease without friends to help. This is a route for them.

But yeah, not sure what you're so worried about, they're constantly buffing up M+, and the fact is, you get loot locked out of raids, and have to stop, dungeons you aren't, you have unlimited chances to try for TF, even if it was 20ilvls under raids, it would still be done just as much.

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Yea, I don't get it - Increasing the ilvl is good and all, but increasing the baseline difficulty will make it MORE difficult for new players to get in, baring a gear catchup outside of dungeons. As it stands, you can run reg Mythics pretty quickly after hitting 110 - About 820 is decent providing you are skilled. With this new change, you will need 840, at least, to comfortably run reg Mythics. And if there is no outside source of gear besides WQs, its going to take your average player some time to catchup.

Also, it makes doing the achieves more of a bitch - I would strongly suggest getting them done now.

Now, I get that they want to keep dungeons relevant - Thats whats mythic+ is for. With increased ilvl, you can go up higher and higher ranks, getting better and better gear. Baseline heroic? Small AP boost per day, and good for fresh 110s. Baseline Mythic? Good for 110s with a foot in the door, and great for achieve farmers. Increasing the difficulty on those two? Solves nothing (Mythic+ is still where you want to be, ppl behind have a harder time catching up.)

Guess I need to see what they have to help with catchup.

Normal ilvl was increased to what heroic gave, without the difficulty increase. It's to make Normal actually used for gear for a bit, then they jump to heroic and mythic.

This isn't for players who are comfortable jumping in and smashing out m+, or have friends carry them through m+ or mythics, this is for players who need a way to gear legitimately.

[Raugnaut]

Isn't the end of week chest already at 900ilvl with the last buffs? So obviously in 7.2 it would go up again, and what you get would also go up. But with its farmability it would HAVE to be lower ilvl than raid, cause you can farm so hard for titanforge.

New alts and players, can't exactly walk into m+ with ease without friends to help. This is a route for them.

But yeah, not sure what you're so worried about, they're constantly buffing up M+, and the fact is, you get loot locked out of raids, and have to stop, dungeons you aren't, you have unlimited chances to try for TF, even if it was 20ilvls under raids, it would still be done just as much.

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Normal ilvl was increased to what heroic gave, without the difficulty increase. It's to make Normal actually used for gear for a bit, then they jump to heroic and mythic.

This isn't for players who are comfortable jumping in and smashing out m+, or have friends carry them through m+ or mythics, this is for players who need a way to gear legitimately.

Hrmm, allright, so normal is the gear bridge. Ok.

Still makes achieves a bitch until you get geared, again.

[Chickat]

What im saying is Normal mythics gave 840 during EN. Thats 10 below normal raid ilev. So shouldbnt the mythic base item level be 10-15 lower than normal ToS? So 895-910ish?

[Emerald Archer]

Hrmm, allright, so normal is the gear bridge. Ok.

Still makes achieves a bitch until you get geared, again.

Oh for sure, I'll be doing the achievements before then definitely. But the difficulty of them now, will be equal to what it'll be like then when everyone has the new NH gear. Shouldn't be too bad.

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What im saying is Normal mythics gave 840 during EN. Thats 10 below normal raid ilev. So shouldbnt the mythic base item level be 10-15 lower than normal ToS? So 895-910ish?

No, it was only done like that because it was the start of the expansion and the main source of gear. As we get more geared we went higher and higher in M+, making that more relevant.

[Chickat]

Oh for sure, I'll be doing the achievements before then definitely. But the difficulty of them now, will be equal to what it'll be like then when everyone has the new NH gear. Shouldn't be too bad.

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No, it was only done like that because it was the start of the expansion and the main source of gear. As we get more geared we went higher and higher in M+, making that more relevant.

I guess that makes a bit of sense actually. I still think base should be around 880 once tomb actually opens though.

[Emerald Archer]

I guess that makes a bit of sense actually. I still think base should be around 880 once tomb actually opens though.

The Dilemma is that the gear goes up more and we do higher M+, by then M+20 will be decently common, So from M+ we'd be getting gear equal if not higher than heroic ToS, and on top of that, the weekly chests would be higher than mythic ToS.

When M+ should be slightly lower than raids due to the ability to farm it so heavily.

[Marston]

I still think the mythic base level is a bit too low with 865. Since 5 new heroic dungeons will be added with 7.2 (Upper/Lower Karazhan, Arcway, Court of Stars, Cathedral of Eternal Night), imo those could be their own tier (they already drop enough loot for that), which would be 10-15 itemlevel higher than the 845+ HC, so around 855-860+. With that, Mythic could be 875-880+ and Mythic+ higher of course. Now this isn't much of a problem as long as Nighthold is still the current raid, since 865+ Mythic -> 875+ Normal Nighthhold isn't any different from the 840 now -> 850 Normal Emerald Nightmare. The problem only occurs once Tomb of Sargeras opens.

[Saiona]

Pretty sure 7.2 is launching without the raid. I remember hearing about it at blizzcon so a bump to dungeon gear would be a really good catchup

[Marston]

Pretty sure 7.2 is launching without the raid. I remember hearing about it at blizzcon so a bump to dungeon gear would be a really good catchup

Yep, they said we have to unlock the raid first. I could see the patch already coming to live servers in 3-4 months and the raid itself being closed for 1-2 more months. It definitly won't be open before we have finished the "building a base" on the Broken Shore.

[cFortyfive]

Guess I need to see what they have to help with catchup.

Just send a mythic+ key each week to every player on level cap pleb life consists of not much more than begging others to play your keys anyways.