Shaman, the worst class seen from number perspective?

[Deleted]

Shaman is currently in the low end of the damage classses for Nighthold if you look at overall dps and overall st dps for both elemental and ench and now with buffs to mages/hunters/ferals we will probably be the worst class by mythic release. Resto shaman numbers doesnt look much better either where they are behind all other healers. Is this fair?

[Omybad]

Welcome to the shaman class

[Holofernes]

im not sure, our elemental scored first on our scorpio hc kill with nearly 1 million overall dps (we did not pad numbers, just normal kill the mob), but he generally has very strong logs (and bis legendaries for like every ele build out their), and is like top 5 dps every single time. Ascandance + fire ele burst is really insane, i dont think any class can top the shaman cooldown nuke currently.

[Deleted]

im not sure, our elemental scored first on our scorpio hc kill with nearly 1 million overall dps (we did not pad numbers, just normal kill the mob), but he generally has very strong logs (and bis legendaries for like every ele build out their), and is like top 5 dps every single time. Ascandance + fire ele burst is really insane, i dont think any class can top the shaman cooldown nuke currently.

What? Skorpyron dps is wayne and mostly padding.

Elemental isnt sooo bad, but enhance definitely is after those nerfs the worst melee. When comparing all melees we have mediocre single target, bad cleave and wrst AOE ingame. We are at the bottom on 50% of all fghts.

But at least n ay shamans are okay to be worst dps ingame as long as they are less than 10% behind....

[psir]

I was expecting a buff, but to my surprise shamans wern't even mentioned in the recent hotfix. I'm dissapointed. Our AoE is next to non existant and out numbers are just not good enough.

[Deleted]

Uh.

You do know not everyone in these 5 days has their 4 Piece yet, right?
Besides, why are we'll bitching about Enhance being low?

Compare my logs, I see no problem with it.


Nighthold HC

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/ranking...r/20040025/11/

Compared to other classes yes, because most of the fights are AoE. Look at the Singletarget ones who's up there.
*smh*

[Deleted]

Weird, I can see shamans in the top10 rankings for several fights.

[Deleted]

On Krosus your rogue was about 15% stronger than you.

Your logs only strong because you have lots of meiocre players. Comparing 99%ile enhance with 80% fury warrsvmakes no sense.

There are different skill levels. Single logs can nwver tell tge truth.

If you joined a top raid, all melees mifgt pull 600 to 700k dps on krosus, so your 530k might look weak.

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Weird, I can see shamans in the top10 rankings for several fights.

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/11

Weird, i dont see a single enhance and only 3 elementals spreaded over 2 heavy cleave fights. But tons of palas, warriors, rogues, dhs.

Melees look quite strong. So enhance is a clear outlier.

[Deleted]

Not saying that Elemental is good numbers wise, but if a spec should pad on Skorpyron it should be Elemental because of Lightning Rod. You can top AE & ST damage with this talent.

[Deleted]

On Krosus your rogue was about 15% stronger than you.

Your logs only strong because you have lots of meiocre players. Comparing 99%ile enhance with 80% fury warrsvmakes no sense.

There are different skill levels. Single logs can nwver tell tge truth.

If you joined a top raid, all melees mifgt pull 600 to 700k dps on krosus, so your 530k might look weak.

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https://www.warcraftlogs.com/rankings/11

Weird, i dont see a single enhance and only 3 elementals spreaded over 2 heavy cleave fights. But tons of palas, warriors, rogues, dhs.

Melees look quite strong. So enhance is a clear outlier.

Sorry, but I was busy soaking adds and not making DPS my main priority, funny that you judge only Krosus. Also, the 99 rankings don't apply for my guild, but for world ranks

[Hedgehog123]

I'm having no issues with ele shaman, doing great dps.
Here's my logs from NH HC, I do have 4p though
www (dot) warcraftlogs (dot) com/rankings/character/17133236/latest/
Not allowed to post links just yet

[Deleted]

Sorry, but I was busy soaking adds and not making DPS my main priority, funny that you judge only Krosus. Also, the 99 rankings don't apply for my guild, but for world ranks

Was the first fight i always pick up. Warcraftlogs shows us behind by some big margin compared to sin, dhs, rets and especially both warr specs on pure single target.

I find it stupid when people post logs saying they top tghe metres and then we 98%ile enhancers comparing to 70%ile rets...

There are warrs pulling 760k on krosus. Dont be sooo proud on 540k or even 570k.

[Nythiz]

Shaman is currently in the low end of the damage classses for Nighthold if you look at overall dps and overall st dps for both elemental and ench and now with buffs to mages/hunters/ferals we will probably be the worst class by mythic release. Resto shaman numbers doesnt look much better either where they are behind all other healers. Is this fair?

It don't know. Our position on the dps charts overal look to be pretty low, but if you look at the actual numbers, some of the upcoming buffs seem justified.
As much DPS as both shaman specs are generally behind the top 5 overal DPS, the same amount some of the classes getting buffed are behind us.

The only thing I generally frown upon when blizzard does balance changes is how they go at it. They seem to make very rough changes instead of looking at what exactly needs to be fixed. At times it feels like a surgeon going at it with a chainsaw; sure the problem might be somewhat fixed, but it isn't very clean.

Good example is enhance AoE; it's been notoriously mediocre, but it hasn't received much love. And classes who only needed buffing in a specific part and yet receive buffs over their entire arsenal of abilities.

In the end it wouldn't surprise me if we end up being low tier (again) when mythic comes around and even more so when stuff goes on farm. (Resto will fall of hard at this point as well). Seems to be a predestined thing for shamans.
However the buffs (to some degree) seem mostly justified.

[Ghrog]

Welcome to the shaman class

BUS SHOCK!!!

Pretty much this. We the red-headed stepchildren of blizz take it in the short and curlies yet again.

[Wildthing]

..and ench...

After all this years and we are still called of ench anter?

[Deleted]

Enhance AOE isnt mediocre, its straightout bad. Very bad, probably the worst of all melee specs.

And you compare melees with melees.

If i ignore survival hunter (noone cares about them), every melee spec is much better at least at Single target or AOE. Those few with bad AOE are much better at single target now and those with bad single target are much better at cleave / AOE likeDHs.

Enhance simply sucks.

[killor318]

I would say it is more of a lack of representation if anything. Ele sort of still has the stigma of being terrible and enh lost atleast 10% damage in the patch 2 weeks ago. General lower numbers from ele could be that people are still learning amd gearing after switching over.

[Deleted]

Enhancement is currently in the low end yeah, but a lot of his has to do with a lot of shamans struggeling with some of the builds that we need to swap arround if we want to min/max while we play with 0p and even 2p. Especially the OC build causes a lot of people to have issues and even then it´s just usefull on a couple of fights leaving us with a weak ST rotation on cleave fights. And while our 4p gives us a good ST boost compared to OC builds, the tempest builds will see an even bigger improvement not only in our ST but also cleave capabilities. I am not a insanely good enhancer myself, but I have cleared NH hc at least and from my experience can see some fights where we are very good at and Guldan (probably the most important of all bosses) is one of them.

Also the numbers aren´t everything. Skorpyron for example will make you look weak at the dmg meter but on mythic he has a LOT of hp and those have to go away some way or another. And since enhancers have the ability to tunnel their aoe into st I think that even if we look weak on the surface, when diving into the logs you should see us amongst if not on top of the meters if it comes to boss dps. I wouldn´t consider that being weak at all but it requires a proper mindset and some intelligence to be not viewed as a weakness but as a niche that can be exploited.

I have never been "seriously" raiding until legion and everytime Blizzard changed something since release I was worried about my class not being competitive anymore because generally blizzard seems to fuck EVERYTHING up if you look at any of the class forums. However, it´s never been the case for me. I think that the negativity you can see going arround is coming from people for whom it´s easier to blame something else instead of improving what they can bring to the table and not from us being actually bad. It´s just one of those things people usually don´t realize they are doing, so they will will go on forever and it´s up to you to decide if you want to trust them with that

[kosajk]

yea they make us worse in 7.1.5 sadly
from statistic perspective its not grate for sure numbers always could be a bit higher, you will hear that from everyone tho
although statistic are really useful in some cases and they are not that useful in others,

what i want to say is as long as you pulling your weight in your raid its ok and how many of us can be in top guilds?

[netherflame]

I feel like the problem with AoE has been that they've given so many classes burst cleave which means classes with sustained cleave don't get to shine because they don't get to use that tool set since the adds just get murdered. Its pretty demoralizing on Botanist to see flowers pop up then see two frost wyrms flow over and two demon hunters use eye beams then see that the flowers have disintegrated as your 2nd chain lightning is going out.