Why are Feral Druids so rare in PvE?

[Tyze]

As people mentioned. Weak aoe and also too complex rotation and doesn't make up for the damage it does.

[Eapoe]

Haven't played one, but from things I have heard is that it is overly complex for the gain it gets from it. Much like the beginning of WoD with WW monks, you have to perform your rotation perfectly to pull middle of the pack numbers. SV Hunter is similar in complexity, but seems to handle itself better with keeping up decent numbers, even though it usually will not beat the other melee specs.

[Fkiolaris]

Back in TBC, WOTLK and Cata, feral didn't have much in terms of dps (single target or AoE) either, but it had it's own perks that made people play them. Beyond the cheese mechanics that people have already mentioned, they also had a proper bear form and good non-dps utility. In other words, they were perhaps the most complete, all around "druid" spec of the 3.

Now they have lost bear form, they have lost the utility, and apparently their rotation still requires a lot of micromanagement (even though I imagine not like the John Fucking Madden levels of WotLK) for medium rewards. So what exactly does a feral druid enjoy atm? Being a wannabe rogue with shape-shifting?

[Irian]

Because of a few reasons, I figure. The first and foremost being that balance is actually a very good spec overall with solid AoE, good burst, good cleave and pretty good single-target. Overall balance is really enjoyable to play and more easily outputs good damage than feral. Feral takes a lot of commitment for not a lot of output, and have been a bit of a rollercoaster in terms of power.

Another minor point is that, while feral got nice stuff through their artifact, I think it deters many people that they basically never get to see their character. Being a cat is a novelty that wears off over time at least for me personally.
And...to add to that point, I don't feel like a feral druid's "fantasy" lives up to the idea of being a feral predator. A cat doesn't specialize in making enemies bleed, they're swift and brutal predators in the wild that emphasize quick killing more than anything due to their low endurance and - compared to many other predators - only decent force. If you watch any documentaries, wild cats almost all kill with the same strategy: overwhelm their prey with speed, pounce and puncture the jugular. If anything feral druids should be more about powerful upfront damage than rogues, but they came to be known for their DoT-based damage in WoW so they're somewhat stuck in this niche that doesn't really feel appropriate for their design.

[Ilir]

The (thoroughly deserved) reputation for being difficult to play well doesn't help. Also I think the "you must press X for a temporary damage boost every Y seconds" talents don't help.

This so much. Those kind of talents/spell need to die ASAP. (looking at you outlaw)

[Sliske]

(assuming a serious raiding guild)

1. Its a melee. Melee generally take more damage and are less versatile than range. Thus the spots for melee are limited in number. Typically to either stupidly strong damage, or decent damage and good utility. Feral does not have massive damage or good utility.

2. Its a class that has a ranged dps spec. Like the above point, but only even more imposing is the fact that feral has to out perform boomkin on most or all aspects of raiding. It has to have higher ST, AoE, Cleave, Utility, take less damage and be good on more fights. Feral I think beats boomkin in only one of these - single target, although I might be wrong. This is the exact same reason survival hunters will never be used unless they are broken OP. The same for enhancement shamans.

3. Ramp up time. It is a clunky spec. Again adding to the issues above, it is just so fucking clunky. To start, it has ramp up time. One of a good dps is that it has no ramp up time. Feral has this. It also is a melee with ramp up time, even worse. Typically it is casters with ramp up time, so how a melee managed to get ramp up time is beyond me. A melee with ramp up time is like a high end computer with a shit CPU.

4. Once again, adding to all of the points above, the fact that it is dot based AND ramp up based means that it can't swap on the fly.

All of these points combined means you will never see a feral in a top guild unless their single target is so disgustingly overpowered that it simply cannot be ignored. TOT and SOO ring a bell.

[gutnbrg]

bc they are busy being gods in pvp

[Deleted]

I never see them in raiding is there a reason why?

You spelt Subtlety Rogue wrong.

[Kraineth]

(assuming a serious raiding guild)

1. Its a melee. Melee generally take more damage and are less versatile than range. Thus the spots for melee are limited in number. Typically to either stupidly strong damage, or decent damage and good utility. Feral does not have massive damage or good utility.

2. Its a class that has a ranged dps spec. Like the above point, but only even more imposing is the fact that feral has to out perform boomkin on most or all aspects of raiding. It has to have higher ST, AoE, Cleave, Utility, take less damage and be good on more fights. Feral I think beats boomkin in only one of these - single target, although I might be wrong. This is the exact same reason survival hunters will never be used unless they are broken OP. The same for enhancement shamans.

3. Ramp up time. It is a clunky spec. Again adding to the issues above, it is just so fucking clunky. To start, it has ramp up time. One of a good dps is that it has no ramp up time. Feral has this. It also is a melee with ramp up time, even worse. Typically it is casters with ramp up time, so how a melee managed to get ramp up time is beyond me. A melee with ramp up time is like a high end computer with a shit CPU.

4. Once again, adding to all of the points above, the fact that it is dot based AND ramp up based means that it can't swap on the fly.

All of these points combined means you will never see a feral in a top guild unless their single target is so disgustingly overpowered that it simply cannot be ignored. TOT and SOO ring a bell.

Eh, Assassination rogues are wildly popular right now and basically have the same weaknesses as feral. They just happen to be tuned extremely high so that when they actually get their damage rolling it feels worth. Feral was literally tuned this way for all of 7.0-7.1

Feral now is kind of high up there after the recent buffs, but not quite assassination level, and doesn't have the benefit of two other specs to rely on.

Playing feral is basically putting all of your eggs in one basket, if the spec is bad you have no real recourse in the short-term. Doesn't help that even a top 100 World feral player can get denied from pugs/M+ because people automatically assume DPS druids are Balance.

[Sliske]

Eh, Assassination rogues are wildly popular right now and basically have the same weaknesses as feral.

You clearly didn't read my post. I don't see many rogues swapping to their good ranged spec.

[Tharkkun]

Yeah that's what feral is about. You can join bronze league or silver... but if you think you are good then join diamond and play feral.

It's like taking an AP calculus class in High School when an Algebra II course is all you need to be successful.

[Lane]

The (thoroughly deserved) reputation for being difficult to play well doesn't help. Also I think the "you must press X for a temporary damage boost every Y seconds" talents don't help.

This. Feral's the one spec that didn't seem affected by the ability pruning (other than removing our utility). I still have a whole action bar+ of abilities to manage compared to just about any other of my alts who don't even have the main bar filled.

Back in TBC, WOTLK and Cata, feral didn't have much in terms of dps (single target or AoE) either, but it had it's own perks that made people play them. Beyond the cheese mechanics that people have already mentioned, they also had a proper bear form and good non-dps utility. In other words, they were perhaps the most complete, all around "druid" spec of the 3.

Now they have lost bear form, they have lost the utility, and apparently their rotation still requires a lot of micromanagement (even though I imagine not like the John Fucking Madden levels of WotLK) for medium rewards. So what exactly does a feral druid enjoy atm? Being a wannabe rogue with shape-shifting?

I only raided into Ulduar, so maybe things changed in ICC, but I along with a second feral were always in the top 5 DPS. I think the rotation now is worse.

I enjoy feral when I'm solo, not so much in groups where it's more obvious the spec is under-performing. What's not to like about being a cat and scratching things to death? :P I've always loved the class/spec fantasy.

[Lime]

If it's anything like WoD:

- Pathetic AoE for dungeons
- No AoE stun
- Slowest paced class in the game

[Fappy]

Feral needs a ground up overhaul. Any Feral who is an actual fan of their current rotation and toolkit probably hasn't played a modern, viable melee spec this xpac.

Maining mage now, but if they ever fixed my broken ass Feral I'd seriously consider picking it back up. It's in an unacceptably poor state right now, however.

[Deleted]

Because it's boring not to see armor, just your daily cat form

[Guyv3r]

Because balance outperforms them on anything except strictly single target fights, while being ranged and having a less complex rotation?

This ^ /10char

[Nayami]

Same reason Surv Hunters, Frost Mages, Sub Rogues, and UH DKs are rare. They are underperforming.

I've been pugging raids since the start of Legion, so I get to see a lot more different class/specs in my raids than you'd see in a full guild raid. During all of these pug raids I don't think I've ever seen a Feral druid or Sub rogue invited, I saw a Survival hunter just once and he was (surprise surprise) doing pretty low dps, and on my last HC Gul'dan pug I actually saw a Frost mage doing an actual good amount of DPS! I play UH DK myself, and I rarely see others in my pugs, but its still nowhere near Ferals/Subs/Survival, those specs are seriously rare. Obviously this is just my experience with the game, yours may differ, but I doubt that it's too far off.

What I can't understand from the devs is how they were boasting near the start of Legion of how easily they could implement hotfixes now for class balance, yet they still ignore these specs that are obviously underperforming in comparison to other specs. Sure they may be considered viable by the devs, but other players don't want to invite specs that are just viable. Hopefully we will see more hotfixes for class balance, and not just the first two weeks of hotfixes and then nothing, keeping those underperforming specs waiting for months just to be let down all over again.

[Thorbalt]

kitties got declawed...

[Baine]

I never see them in raiding is there a reason why?

I raid in normal as a feral druid.

- - - Updated - - -

Because it's boring not to see armor, just your daily cat form

Not so much. I think it was a good idea to main a feral. The other artifact weapons look are meh but the kitty forms are just awesome.

[ItachiZaku]

I don't even see them in LFR or dungeons, I see bears and trees a lot though (cuz I'm a tree, but yeah)