Overall, was Survival a failure?

[Deleted]

Giant failure imo

[Draugnakh]

I stopped my WoW account when they removed melee for hunter at Cata. The reason why I'm back on WoW is Legion's survival spec.

I created an account on mmo-champion because of this thread... failure, realy ?

My main character is hunt, my only spec is SV and it's fun.

Not a failure at all. I love it.

[Geran]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but just because the Vanilla/TBC Survival spec had a few melee abilities, wasn't it still a ranged spec? I started late Vanilla/early TBC, but I'm pretty sure hunters never had a full-on melee spec.

Previously 1.7 (commonly called hunter patch) Sv tree talent had more talents that strenghted their melee capabilities (Vanilla talents) but what those people (blizzard) forgot is that the hunter kept the ranged abilities (arcane shot, stings, multishot, volley, aimed had to be talented, but everyone took it cause it was the best,.....) and those were the main source of damage (they intended to make SV the pvp tree back at start).

[Khrux]

(Vanilla talents)

That talent tree brings back some memories, improved wing clip <3 and how the hell did they not bring counterattack back for SV's pvp tree

Realistically hunter's only ever have melee attacks because we had a dead zone in which we couldn't use ranged skills (0-8yrds) so it made sense to remove the melee skills and melee weapon slot when they removed the dead zone. Similarly to how they removed the ranged weapon slots for warriors/rogues, the wand slots for casters and the relic/libram slots for Paladins/DK etc.

But hey, at least we didn't get ammunition back because of #class fantasty xD

[Draugnakh]

Warriors/rogue didn't have a part of their tree about ranged skills like sv hunter did with melee.

At the end of Vanilla I could 1v1 a rogue with double Thunderfury. I off tanked on Molten Core as soon as the raid started etc... It wasn't only about dead zone.

It was also a time when tank's taunt could miss and hunt was the puller, traps were needed in pve etc...

I really liked vanilla's SV. I only played this spec.

I'm not saying that Legion SV is the spec to play, but it's not a failure if it brings back some good memories.

[Ellerain]

All these arguments about 'good memories' and 'I'm only playing the game because of melee hunters' mean jack. You know why? Because there are equal amount of people who have 'good memories' about ranged surv and would like to play it instead. Reality is, surv is the least played spec right now -- while it took the largest amount of dev resources. Do the math.

[Draugnakh]

I do the math when it's about theorycrafting, not about fun.

[Usagi Senshi]

Still hunters best spec IMO and requires the most skill to play considering the extremely simplistic rotation of the other two specs. I can't wait until the patch when Blizzard buffs the spec above the other two and than people forced to play it for a bit. That will be a lovely time to read the forums, lol!

[Firebyrd]

Still hunters best spec IMO and requires the most skill to play considering the extremely simplistic rotation of the other two specs. I can't wait until the patch when Blizzard buffs the spec above the other two and than people forced to play it for a bit. That will be a lovely time to read the forums, lol!

People won't be forced to play it because it would screw up the balance of ranged vs. melee in raid groups. People would far more likely be ordered to not play it (or even to reroll) regardless of damage.

I'd also like to add that I think it's far more likely that there are hundreds or thousands of times more people disappointed at losing ranged sv as are excited over getting melee sv "back." The numbers show quite clearly that people are not excited about melee sv. They wouldn't have been excited about it as a fourth spec (which is how they should have gone), but at least they wouldn't have resented it for taking away the spec they did like.

[Usagi Senshi]

People won't be forced to play it because it would screw up the balance of ranged vs. melee in raid groups. People would far more likely be ordered to not play it (or even to reroll) regardless of damage.

I'd also like to add that I think it's far more likely that there are hundreds or thousands of times more people disappointed at losing ranged sv as are excited over getting melee sv "back." The numbers show quite clearly that people are not excited about melee sv. They wouldn't have been excited about it as a fourth spec (which is how they should have gone), but at least they wouldn't have resented it for taking away the spec they did like.

A very sensible and level-headed reply, thank you. I was mostly trolling because of all of the needless crying over whats done already. The dev time that went in to create the spec and the weapons for it means its won't be going away anytime soon if at all. People should be ecstatic to have a fun and original melee spec to use instead of another ranged spec that played almost the same as MM did.

I also agree with the 4th spec that would have made more people happy overall, but I also play/played other MMOs that d'dn't treat hunters/mages/rogues as strickly ranged or melee either. Its refreshing to see Blizzard do something to shake the classes up more and I think they should have been more off the wall with rogue's outlaw spec and gave it more ranged abilities and turn it into a full mid-range spec (its close enough but its no reaper or ninja from TERA that's for sure).

[Bepples]

An update of the status of Survival with some good news and bad news!

The good news is that Survival now performs well! Better than the other hunter specs, in fact.

The bad news? You still have no one playing it. I guess there's some good news here because it's now looking like it has 33% of the parses of the 2nd-least-played spec in the game whereas before 7.1.5 it was more like 20%... but there's also the extra bit of bad news here; now throughput is no longer an excuse for bad SV population.

Anyone still answering "no" to the thread title? I'm in the mood for more SV spin-doctoring.

[Okacz]

An update of the status of Survival with some good news and bad news!

The good news is that Survival now performs well! Better than the other hunter specs, in fact.

The bad news? You still have no one playing it. I guess there's some good news here because it's now looking like it has 33% of the parses of the 2nd-least-played spec in the game whereas before 7.1.5 it was more like 20%... but there's also the extra bit of bad news here; now throughput is no longer an excuse for bad SV population.

Anyone still answering "no" to the thread title? I'm in the mood for more SV spin-doctoring.

The people who were attracted to SV after 7.1.5 buffs immediately rolled back, seeing all the WotMN clusterfuck they would need to perform for best dps. Why do this when you can roll Havoc and do similar or higher dps while watching Netflix?

The spec still needs some refining, but good news is the t19 bonuses work way better on the easier talent choice, which has more time to set up those sweet MB chains. Perhaps with 4pc the non-annoying way of playing SV is on par with WotMN.

[barackohmama]

NH is the most melee friendly raid in a while so I don't see reasons why hunters shouldnt play SV seeing how well it performs compared to other hunter specs.

[Geran]

For SV to be a competitive spec (and i mean in terms of people playing it, not damage or smooth mechanics) they should buff it so every other spec ingame (other classes included) performed so low it would be crazy not to pick it. (lets say normal dps varies from 90-110, SV would need to do 150, being so overpower no one would discuss its viability).

As this won't happen, SV is relegated to be an alt spec, a pvp spec, or a try it spec.


The reasons for the failure of SV have been told again and again:
- Being melee, in a overcrowded melee class world, which perform better anyway, and coming from a range spec hurt it much more.
- Convoluted rotation/priority (compared to rest).
- Awful secondary stats weights (which have been tuned since start).

[MonsieuRoberts]

NH is the most melee friendly raid in a while so I don't see reasons why hunters shouldnt play SV seeing how well it performs compared to other hunter specs.

You make it sound like it's EZPZ to just pump a weapon to 52 and get some fantastic relics on par with your mainspec, on top of transitioning from ranged to melee mindset. I don't know the stat priorities, but if they're different, that's not helping the case.

I don't know a Hunter who's just gonna switch for the heck of it, or a raid leader that would accommodate a Survival Hunter in progression. Doesn't make sense!

Edit: I just looked up the stat weights. No one is just gonna "try" Survival when they've been MM for months. Not happening.

[xZerocidex]

NH is the most melee friendly raid in a while so I don't see reasons why hunters shouldnt play SV seeing how well it performs compared to other hunter specs.

Because most of them wanted to be range.

[Usagi Senshi]

You make it sound like it's EZPZ to just pump a weapon to 52 and get some fantastic relics on par with your mainspec, on top of transitioning from ranged to melee mindset. I don't know the stat priorities, but if they're different, that's not helping the case.

I don't know a Hunter who's just gonna switch for the heck of it, or a raid leader that would accommodate a Survival Hunter in progression. Doesn't make sense!

Edit: I just looked up the stat weights. No one is just gonna "try" Survival when they've been MM for months. Not happening.

You make it sound like its really hard when its actually not even close to being so. On all of my alts, I have 5-6 extra relics laying about and even then, the majority of them don't equate to super dps gains by a wide margin. Switching back and forth between range and melee is easy as fuck as well, game isn't hard ya know.

Stats aren't a big deal as well but slightly annoying as is the rotation with WotMN (which is why I just use Axes on my hunter alt instead).

I just see a lot crying and someone not willing to try shit tbh.

Also, you don't represent everyone with your "no one" shit.

[Deleted]

Survi shouldnt be another meele spec.

Ranged will always be favoured over meele, especially when they have solid aoe.

What would save Survi is if it was tank spec for hunter. Would be especially nice, considering there are no other mail wearing specs.

[Threndsa]

NH is the most melee friendly raid in a while so I don't see reasons why hunters shouldnt play SV seeing how well it performs compared to other hunter specs.

Because melee friendly doesn't equal stack melee. Ranged dps classes, in my experience this expac, seem to be far less common than ranged. I play BM and there's no chance my raid is going to want me to go from a fully mobile ranged spc, which is still helpful on a good number of fights, to melee when we have an average of 3 ranged dps.

I enjoy SV and usually do my LFR as SV for SnG but I dont ever see me raiding as it.

[Deleted]

I honestly don't touch it because it's still a freaking mess to play, I don't like this MB chaining, it's worse than AS spam.
That+ I'm literally 30 traits ahead with my main spec.
Pretty much can't play BM for the same reason... not to mention that playing without a legendary for that spec would feel even more awful than playing with something "minor" as Zevrim as MM.