The Nighthold Mythic Race Progression

[Deleted]

Method 9/10

Whats the use of sad people like you?

[Deleted]

Whats the use of sad people like you?

This whole tread is full of them, how did you think we got to 197 pages? :P.

[Deleted]

Whats the use of sad people like you?

The want acknowledgement which is sad really.

[Raiju]

The issue is that you're shooting yourself in the foot. Like, if Serenity streamed progression, I 100% guarantee that Method and Exorsus would beat them. If you stream your progression, you're giving away all your strats for free, and there's no guarantee that your competition will reciprocate that.

The first high end guild to stream progression is the first guild to concede in the WF race.

Fyi, posts like this are the reason mmo-champion forums are a running gag in Slootbag's stream. It's just so naive it makes one wonder if you put more than 2 seconds of thought into it.

The first high end guild to stream progression could actually cause it to become a required part of the WF race - unless you forgot exorsus' rant.

'Fyi', twitch chat is a running gag anywhere off twitch.

[Ogait]

Does anyone knows one Guild that is streaming Augur with decent progress?

I kept Twitch on Prestige Gaming channel since they were making progress on the fight, and from one moment to another they went "dark" and no more stream because of secret tactics. Wanted to see Last Phase and the best I saw was 37%.

Thanks in advance.

[Deleted]

Any idea how you would remove split runs without horribly penalizing people who enjoy raiding with their alts?
I mean most ideas I've heard would end up penalizing casual raiders and people who alt in some way

Remove Master-Loot option from the game, simple solution.

[Darthlegolas]

Does anyone knows one Guild that is streaming Augur with decent progress?

I kept Twitch on Prestige Gaming channel since they were making progress on the fight, and from one moment to another they went "dark" and no more stream because of secret tactics. Wanted to see Last Phase and the best I saw was 37%.

Thanks in advance.

Prestige best pull is like 18% now IIRC.

[Ogait]

Prestige best pull is like 18% now IIRC.

I imagine, but wanted to see how high is the DPS requirement. Also wanted to see how they gonna do it without Heroism.

[Fynzie]

Remove Master-Loot option from the game, simple solution.

They would roll 5 char of the same class and take the most lucky one, now think again.

[Jdance]

So I think it might be useful to look back at the usage of alts in raids over time to understand why and when alts became so prevalent.



Vanilla
Alts in vanilla were a very rare thing for more than a few reasons. First of all, it took an average player around 8 days to reach max level (assuming they ever even did). Second of all, the fundamental ideologies about raiding were not even remotely in place yet - there were so many strides to be made in player skill and knowledge that would be a monumental increase in value of time spent over having alts to gear mains. It would be a much better time investment to spend 8 days learning the mechanics of your character, the mechanics of the game, and farming consumables for your main character than it would be to create a new character and gear it for the explicit reason to gear your main.*


Major points against usage of alts:

• Much harder to reach max level
• Much harder to gear characters
• Raiding was in its infancy, did not necessitate the usage of alts

Burning Crusade
The Burning Crusade probably had the most unique raiding experiencing the game will ever see. On release, there were technically 6 raids complete and available to players granted they had completed the necessary attunements and had the gear to get anything done. However, raiding was still in its infancy and gearing was still very slow. Many of the elite quests in vanilla were nerfed and complete-able by one character. Leveling was not as difficult as it used to be but was still a massive time sink and still much harder than it is today. There were also no catch up mechanics for gear. If you wanted to use an alt you had to hit max level, find a guild, gear in very difficult dungeons, do all the raid attunements, and acquire gear in every raid in a loot starved environment.


Major Points against usage of alts:

• Still very difficult to reach max level
• Still very difficult to gear characters, no catch up mechanics
• Raiding was still in its infancy
• Time in general was better spent elsewhere

Wrath of the Lich King
WoTLK was in my opinion the turning point for the usage of alts. First off, the amount of experience required to reach level 70 and under was tuned down heavily. The majority of all quests were now complete-able solo. Biggest of all, WoTLK introduced heirloom items, cutting the time needed to level a character down by more than 25%. This fact, coupled with the release heroic dungeons being the easiest the game has ever seen, Naxxramas being by current means a "normal" difficulty raid, the increase in the amount of items dropped, as well as the introduction of a gear catch-up mechanic in the form of badges made the usage of alts a viable concept. Many characters started playing an alt as they grew bored of their main. However, this did not mean that players realized the raiding benefits of alts right away. It took until ICC when the first mention of using them for progression took place. Paragon used a full alt raid to learn and test encounters in Icecrown Citadel prior to stepping foot in the instance with their mains due to having a limited number of attempts available on end-tier bosses.*


Major points against usage of alts:

• Raids were available on launch, but were so easy that alts were not required.*
• While the skill of players were beginning to develop, meta knowledge of raiding was still in its infancy
• Major benefits of alts:
• ICC featured a very niche use of alts with the limited attempt system.

Benefits of alts:

• Utilized as a means to evade limited attempt encounters

Cataclysm
Cataclysm was the first time in WoW's history where guilds started to utilize alts to further their main's progression. Cataclysm once again cut down the amount of time needed to level by reducing the amount of experience required and introducing 3 new heirlooms pieces as part of the revamped guild system. Leveling from 80 to 85 took a high end player less than 8 hours. Uniquely to this expansion, dungeons were not easy. This was also the last expansion to have its raids available on release. As such, players did not have time to level and gear their alts before progressing rushing into the instances on their mains on day 1. In Cataclysm, player skill also increased through the roof as necessitated by the fact that dungeon and raiding content was very difficult. Almost all raiders now use addons to assist them. This means Blizzard must now design encounters with addon usage in mind.*


The biggest aspect of Cataclysm was its introduction of LFR. Looking for raid was released alongside 4.3 with Dragon Soul and the gear dropped included trinkets and tier. It was at this point many guilds looked at how they could utilize this system to benefit their progression. Because LFR was so easy, guilds could bring any alts they wanted and still faceroll the bosses. For the first time in the game's history guilds were able to easily funnel gear into their mains.


Major points against usage of alts:

• Raids were available on release
• Introductory content was relatively difficult

Major benefits of alts:

• Leveling to 85 was very easy
• LFR introduced the concept of split runs to guilds
• Content was easy enough to funnel gear to mains

Mists of Pandaria and Warlords of Draenor
These expansions are so close to each other they aren't worth noting separetly. Leveling is now easy and the game has been out for so long that many players already have multiple characters at max level. Introductory raids on normal are not difficult, and player skill has evolved enough so that every top guild can now use split runs to gear their mains. The biggest change in alt usage from previous expansions is that guilds will now do multiple raid clears on split runs after the content is on farm. This ensures that all characters, mains and alts, are ready for the next tier.*

Major points against usage of alts:

• Alts are now a huge time commitment. Top players spend 60-120*hours a week doing split runs and mythic progression on release of a new tier.*This*commitment cuts down to 16-20 hours when content is on farm.

Major benefits of alts:

• Almost all mains now have 4 set and BiS trinkets week 1.
• Player skill is now so high that top players can bring any class needed for a certain encounter.

Legion
Legion is unique only in that it further increased the amount of time top players must spend to progress their characters via repeatable content. This isn't a bad thing for 99.9% of players. However, top guilds must now maintain 3, sometimes 4 alts and 1 main. This means grinding on multiple characters for trait 54, sometimes for multiple weapons, and praying for warforged/titanforged/socketed gear. Legion skyrockets the amount of time needed to compete in a top end guild and ostracizes anyone who would otherwise want to try.


Major points against usage of alts:

• Alts are*now a bigger*time commitment. Top players still spend the same amount of time as the previous expansion, and even more to maintain alt artifact progression. Top players must now commit 30-40 hours per week to optimally maintain their characters.

Major benefits of alts:

• Almost all mains now have 4 set and BiS trinkets week 1.
• Player skill is now so high that top players can bring any class needed for a certain encounter.

[Darthlegolas]

They would roll 5 char of the same class and take the most lucky one, now think again.

Gear templates in Raids like in PVP.

[Aet3ra]

Gear templates in Raids like in PVP.

Best way to kill the PRG part of the game.

[Darthlegolas]

Best way to kill the PRG part of the game.

Oh, that part. What is PRG?

[Deleted]

Due to titanforging and repeating m+ a lot guilds do have relative high gear to what drops in the nighthold. But you also have to take in accounts 2 things:

- Legendaries and weapons bump this up quite a bit, so there is more growth potential than might seem at first glance.
- NH gear can warforge too. The chance will be just as small as before but in a few weeks you will see 910+ pieces on many players.

Eventually even in more casual guilds people will approach 900 even if they would just do heroic. The reality in wow is now that you will start the instance better geared than in other expansions but you can also grow higher beyond the hard cap that we had before. The bosses are also tuned around that (Although its still pretty likely mythic bosses will get nerfed, but blizzard did that before too)

[thilicen]

Oh, that part. What is PRG?

Can't come up with an argument, better focus on the obvious spelling error to divert attention.

[Darthlegolas]

Can't come up with an argument, better focus on the obvious spelling error to divert attention.

No, it's an honest question. Are we talking about the RPG aspect about mythic raiding? Really?

I'm not saying that you can't get rewards in the form of gear during Mythic raids, just that there could be stat templates in play in the same way that there is in PVP.

[Laurathansal]

The optimal world in my eyes would be something along these lines:
All raid progress is done on a designated server(s), with special rules.
On these servers one can create one of each class at max level, making it so that it's easier to do class stacking if it's needed (perhaps with a cap to amount of people of the same spec in a raid)
Either all chars are created with a baseline set of gear, and let Blizz dictate what gear that is, aka, gear is a non issue, as everyone has the same gear.
Other option regarding gear is to simple have all gear available to buy, and then let people min-max all they want with different gear and trinket combinations, leaving better informed people with an edge.
I'm not sure if it would be a good idea to have a time restriction on the servers, as in, you can only spend X amount of hours a day inside the raid. I think this would make it so that the people who want to be able to push for an extra hour or two if they're really close to a kill lose the ability to do so. Have to remember that good planing of how the guild spends their time is a big part of what makes a day-time raiding guild good.
All servers (EU, US, Asia) open at the same time, removing the annoying 2 day gap between US release and Asia release, giving the eastern guilds an actual shot at world first.
Once progress is over, you can play the game on your normal servers again, and due to the fact that gear and alts are handled by the progress server, you don't have to feel forced to maintain 5+ chars at the highest level at all time, but rather you could play the game in a way you find to be fun.

I'm sure there are a lot of bad things that I may have missed with the above things, but I do feel like there needs to be some sort of official rules set by Blizz, in order to help the progress race out.

This
/10chars

[Darthlegolas]

This
/10chars

But.. the RPG aspect

/s

[Killface1]

Paragon 1/10m. Struggling on CA.

[Deleted]

Time spent and prep. is a part of the race and should be. But I know why guilds that play less would watn set chars, since it would make them catch up to the big boys.