The Nighthold Mythic Race Progression

[Deleted]

Agreed, this has been a great race to follow

[Deleted]

Seems like the EN performance of Exorsus wasnt a 1 time thing.

[Deleted]

Seems like the EN performance of Exorsus wasnt a 1 time thing.

They have been in the top for years as far as I am aware .

[Ktperry]

I really hope russians will take it home, they're making such a great performance over the years, time to shine even more!

[Deleted]

Well, another contender for 10/10 now - would be a big smack in the gob if Serenity lost this one after their attempts lead on Gul'dan but a very impressive race thus far!

[Emancptr]

google told me that the average boost cost for EN is 150 euros, or $161 for a full 7/7 mythic clear. for ToV it is $350.

to make 50-75k as a raider taking the ENTIRE payment you would need to do 98 clears of these instances to earn $50k~ and 147 clears of these instances to earn $75k~. now let's assume you want to earn that much money in the year: 2 runs per week to earn $50k~ and 3~ runs per week to earn $75k~

now let's assume the cut is split evenly 20 ways: that $161 is now worth $8.05 and the $350 is worth $17.5. in order to make $10k you would need to do 392 runs of these instances. to do that in a 12 month period you would need to run roughly 8 runs per week, assuming you took 0 time off. therefore, in order to make $50k from boosts per year you would need to run EN/ToV (at the prices given by the majority of websites) 40 times per week.

yea, quit your bullshit because it's just not true. even if you took the entire cut it's almost impossible because of the logistical hurdles involved lmao.

You're looking at prices for content that isn't relevant anymore and you're not including things like Mythic+ sales which are much more lucrative than ToV and 7/7 Mythics. 7/7 Mythic went for $1-2k for the first couple of weeks that it is out (if you're running splits you can double down on that). Mythic+ sales were going for upwards of $150-200 for a 10 and around $1,000 for a 15 earlier in the expansion (30-50 minutes per run on each of those). Mythic+ sales are still relatively lucrative with around $200-300 dollars for a package that usually takes boosters 1-2 hours to complete. Split that money 4 ways and it's $20-30 per hour.

We haven't even really started on Gul'dan boosting, which will be immense because it has a Mount and Tier pieces associated with the gear (both things that usually drive prices up). As a comparison, Archimonde boosts (just archimonde) were $20-50 ($20 for last 6 months of expac, but roughly $50 for the first little bit) just for the moose mount. This means if you were one of the people that did 2,000+ Archimonde's and you averaged $30 per boost you made more than 60k last year. And that is before you start accounting for Challenge Mode boosts in that expansion. I know people that made 100-200k during HFC sales.

I'm honestly not posting this information to brag. I'm just trying to get people to actually understand how profitable boosting really is. Yes, you're probably playing the game for 60 hours a week in order to make that kind of money. But if you want to, boosting is a 50-75k/year job.

[stevenho]

Serenity time spent on Elissande 2d:4h
Exorsus time spent on Elissande 2d:4h

If Guldan suvives the reset, the race is IMO completely even between those 2.

[Deleted]

If Gul'dan stays alive this reset, it's going to be quite interesting next reset. Extend? Farm? etc

[FareweII]

Exorsus lost Augur and Elisande by like 3h each, not a huge gap IF Gul'Dan survives this reset, now it's basically all up to individual performance on him.

Seems like the EN performance of Exorsus wasnt a 1 time thing.

They've been in Top 10 since ICC and in top 3 since MoP

[Deleted]

Serenity time spent on Elissandre 2d:4h
Exorsus time spent on Elissandre 2d:4h

If Guldan suvives the reset, the race is IMO completely even between those 2.

Wouldn't count method out if Gul'dan stays alive this reset.

[Aureli]

Do you understand its not like free money right? You still need to pay taxes and shit like that, you are providing service for money.

[FareweII]

Wouldn't count method out if Gul'dan stays alive this reset.

If they kill him early in the day tomorrow than maybe, otherwise other two guilds will have plenty of time to see the fight and gear whoever they need on Wednesday.

[stevenho]

Wouldn't count method out if Gul'dan stays alive this reset.

You have to. They haven't even seen boss9 that takes 2 days, aka they will not see Guldan this reset while 2 guilds have 2 days on him.
If Guldan dies next reset (or this), Method is racing for world 3rd. If it survives yet another one, anything is possible.

[Rezhial]

If Gul'dan stays alive this reset, it's going to be quite interesting next reset. Extend? Farm? etc

I could be wrong but I don't think a top guild has ever extended a raid. It's a massive waste of gear, especially when they will probably go 9/10 in a few hours come reset.

[SLSAMG]

My Russian brothers have got this in the bag!

[Rezhial]

You have to. They haven't even seen boss9 that takes 2 days

What? Method is on boss 9....

[Gorsameth]

If Gul'dan stays alive this reset, it's going to be quite interesting next reset. Extend? Farm? etc

Guilds will never extend unless they wipe on 0.1% 2 minutes before the server goes offline for maintenance.
The extra gear from another clear will help enormously and these guilds are good enough in execution that they won't wipe a lot on a 2nd clear.

[nVIDIA]

Imagine nighthold race ending with 0 world first for method

[Dangg]

I could be wrong but I don't think a top guild has ever extended a raid. It's a massive waste of gear, especially when they will probably go 9/10 in a few hours come reset.

The only one I can think of is Paragon extended for WF LK HC 10 man, but that's because the 5% buff came up that week.

[OrcsRLame]

Argument from authority. Just because you were in Method doesn't mean you're right about minor strategy optimizations vs execution. Give me everyone in Serenity, I'll explain every single thing about a strategy down to the second timings on a fight like Archimonde at 718 and let's kill it in 5 pulls. Definitely a thing, right?

No.



Strategy is the simple part. It's rarely a big deal. You had interviews after Archimonde progression where people talked about healers doing DPS as if that was some big thing. I mean the raid wasn't taking damage so what else would healers be doing? That's purely execution, it wasn't some big secret. The same is true for any time you're overhealing (you brought up a hybrid situation already).

Unless a fight is so unbelievably complicated mechanically that a strategy can totally simplify the fight, it's likely the least important thing as good guilds after seeing it a couple of times end up doing the exact same things.

I'm sitting here saying strategy is important, but it's not -200 wipes important, it's not game changing. Execution is always incredibly important. It doesn't matter how good your strategy is if you can't execute it. A strategy that works for a guild that can execute as well as a top 5 guild can may never work for a less capable guild.

I sat there and watched US top 50 guilds in EN progression wipe to trivial shit, they didn't even talk through what Exorsus/Method did, they were just failing to deal with the mechanics on a basic level (dodge, stand in plants, etc). Method killed Dragons in sub 5 pulls right? That's what I've heard, I haven't confirmed it, but I know guilds (mine included) that needed 40+ to kill it because people refused to do the mechanics, even when told repeatedly, even after seeing it. It was literally "do mechanics, boss dies" because there was nothing difficult about the boss. You go further down and there are guilds wiping just to people not healing, or tanks not popping their CDs. The only thing I see different is execution from the top down to people who can barely kill a boss.

What was hard about Cenarius? Method didn't do the drake-herder strat. They just used the heroic strat with some minor modifications. It was literally "this is the obvious way to do this boss." Nothing fancy. No special push timings, no ignoring adds. They wiped a little more than Exorsus, got W2, and beat tons of other guilds of comparable skill level who were in fact using the drake strategy, and that's a clear example of a strategy that made the fight quite a bit easier for most people. Why is that a thing? Could it just have been due to their healers being good at healing, DPS moving away from shit on the ground, someone actually clearing now and again, and good timing on CDs and priority DPS control? All basic execution, stuff Method does really well.

Did that lose Method W1?

Exorsus killed Il'gynoth at 13:53 on 9/28.
Method killed Il'gynoth at 18:00 on 9/28.
Exorsus killed Cenarius at 21:57, 8 hours after their Il'gynoth kill.
Method killed Cenarius at 11:58, 18 hours after their Il'gynoth kill.
Method would've had almost 4 hours progression on Il'gynoth when Exorsus killed it.

Yeah I doubt it. Exorsus just destroyed the rest of the instance and had a big enough lead that they were taking W1, even if they took 18 hours on Cenarius like Method did.



And how? They didn't give a reason. It didn't. Similar wipe counts, did they just wipe hundreds and hundreds of times to people failing to get in a position? The geometry made it impossible to fuck that up. It sounds like that's just shitty execution, not an addon. There are LOTS of guilds that even with that addon still wiped to that stupid mechanic over and over and over.



I'm not making baseless claims. You're arguing from authority and getting really emotional, and there is no evidence directly contradicting me. My argument is that execution is important and the primary differentiator between ranks in a race. Everything you've brought up clearly reinforces that fact. Are you going to find a situation where the key in progression was strategy and not execution? More importantly, would that one case you may be able to find actually prove your point or mine, if virtually always it's execution?

If I'm not putting much effort into my arguments, it's because you keep bringing up things that are totally irrelevant that I don't even care to talk about. You go on long winded rants that are nothing but assertions.

Your entire argument is predicated on a false dichotomy, like you can have strategy or execution, and that there are no gradients where one can make the other easier. You also ignore a HUGE component of raiding, tactics.

In case you do not understand the difference between strategy and tactics, allow me to explain. Simply put, strategy is your long term plan. Tactics is the individual moves that allow you to win with that plan. Strategy is tanking the Butcher in the pool. Tactics is solo soaking his jumps with BoP.

Most people in wow do not differentiate the two. Giving people your tactics is the worst part about streaming. I wonder how many pulls it took Slootbag to realize that Bastion of Light gave him 100% SOTR uptime for one sequence on mythic Helya.

Probably the only thing you've said that I agree with, is that execution is the primary difference between ranks in a race. Just because it is the primary difference though, does not mean it is the only difference. Even among the top 5, the difference in skill is so relatively small, that any significant advantage could catapult one of them to the top. Like, as much shit as people give Limit; I bet if they had a 5% health/damage/healing buff, they would have already killed Gul'dan. Why give away your strategy and your tactics for free? It's like raiding without enchants. It's totally possible to kill the boss like that, but you'd have to be a fucking retard to think that won't gimp you on some level.

The primary difference in our positions is this.

You think execution is the only thing that matters.

I think everything matters; especially when the execution requirements are strict.

It's why you see Method, Serenity and Exorsus keep flip flopping. Exorsus won EN, Method won ToV, and Serenity has been winning NH. It's not like the other two suddenly become retarded when one pulls ahead. It's not that Method just lost their ability to execute mechanics in NH. It's incredibly small things that add up to a moderate advantage. The difference between these guilds is razor thin.