End Boss 7.3

[Qualia]

Qualia There is no Word of God that states the world blows up if we kill the Old Gods. We now know that removing the Old Gods by way of Titans ripping them out kills Azeroth. That is the Word of God. Titans couldn't remove the Old Gods safely. That. is. all. If we kill N'Zoth, Azeroth is saved, not doomed. Azeroth is not weakening because of their deaths. N'Zoth is getting stronger, which is a problem. But there is no direct connection between the Old Gods dying and Azeroth becoming unstable. That is just a feeling you have because of the perceptions the old lore created.

Uhh... what? Have you conveniently missed the interview clip that had been linked many times on the forums so far? The Blizzcon Q&A with Metzen and Afrasiabi, I meant. Here, I will even spend sometimes digging the transcript back up for you:

Q: If you have any theory about what the name for the next Old God would be, and elaborate a little upon the theory. Because a while ago, you assert the theory that if the Old Gods were dealt with, that's doomsday and Azeroth would cease to be because of some catastrophic event. But so far, with two down, we're not really seeing much calamity happening.

A: Have you played any Cataclysm?
A: You know, like, when the world blows up? Because of the Old Gods.

Q: Because of the Old Gods?
A: Right.

As you can see, the questioner were asking about the consequence of the two Old Gods' deaths. He wasn't asking "Who caused the Cataclysm?". The answer? "You know, like, when the world blows up? Because of the Old Gods". There you have it - the world blows up (in Cataclysm) because of the Old Gods' (deaths). Keep in mind that they weren't talking about the Old Gods' empowerment to Deathwing, they weren't talking about them corrupting and manipulating him - those were the actions when the two were alive. They were talking about the consequence of the two Old Gods' deaths - which was the world blowing up.

I'm not even sure why you are bringing up the fact that the Titans couldn't kill the Old Gods in the same manner as Aman'thul did, as it would open another wound on Azeroth. It has nothing to do with what is being discussed at hand, and it doesn't contradict what was said either. Nothing in Chronicle or anything released after that interview contradicted with it, actually. I'm always open to be corrected - feel free to give me the exact quote (and source) that stated either (1) C'Thun and Yogg's death didn't take any direct part in the Cataclysm, or (2) Deathwing and his followers were the only one responsible for Cataclysm, no one else. I'd be very happy to admit that it was retconned and I was wrong. We should base our argument around facts, no?

So yes, I would like to return what you said to you - you are entitled to believe in your headcanon if you wish. Or, to quote the WoG article on TVT: "It's important to remember that if you disagree with the Word of God, there's nothing wrong with writing fan fiction that contradicts it, just don't try to foist your preferred Fanon on fans who acknowledge the official canon or on the actual creator of the work". While it has been moving away, the original point was that the Old Gods' deaths (C'Thun and Yogg in particular) caused the Cataclysm (again, this doesn't mean Deathwing didn't cause it), as stated by WoG. If you don't believe it, well, see the quote few lines above.

And Deathwing didn't make his armor. Goblins did 10.000 years ago. Twilight Hammer did now. And I think you way underestimate the time it takes to accomplish such a feat. And you also have to realize that lorewise, The events between TBC and the Cataclysm only took 1 year.

That's wrong. It would only be 1 year if the events in TBC happened at the end of year 26 (for example, December), and the events in Cataclysm happened at the start of year 28 (for example, January). Otherwise, they would average out to be 2 years (26->27=1 year, 27->28=1year, 1+1=2 years). Similarly, WoTLK events to Cataclysm events would be 1 years (the entire of year 27). In fact, in "Shattering: Prelude to Cataclysm", before the first phase of the Elemental Unrest event, Anduin mentioned that it had been many months since the fall of Lich King and the supposed death of Bolvar ("Anduin had mourned the death of his friend Bolvar Fordragon, but the loss had been many months old by the time of the service").

So again, I bring up the issue that you keep ignoring - the earthquakes came months (almost a year) before the elements were disturbed (the time when the earthquakes intensified). If you are saying that Deathwing thrashing around in Deepholm was the only cause of those earthquakes, are you seriously saying that it took months of those thrashing for the elements to realized something was wrong?

However, yes, I believe both of us have stated our points, and it doesn't seem the discussion is going anywhere. I guess we'd have to agree to disagree on this one, then :P

The victorious Northrend expeditions returned home to find all of Azeroth shaken by erratic elemental forces. This unrest preceded the return of the maddened Dragon Aspect Deathwing the Destroyer, who erupted from his lair in the bowels of the Elemental Plane, shattering Azeroth in the process. With the elemental realms now open to the world, chaotic elemental spirits and their tyrannical lords emerged to help the Destroyer and the nihilistic Twilight's Hammer cult bring about the Hour of Twilight: the end of all life on Azeroth.

Thanks @Darkarath. Though I have a feeling he'll still claim it isn't necessarily the only reason.

Obviously it isn't. What was described there was the phases of the Elemental Unrest event (4.0.3 basically). The earthquakes intensified, elementals went chaotic and over time, eventually attack us. I have stated many times that I wasn't referring to those earthquakes during 4.0.3. The one I mentioned was the earthquake in 3.3.0 (during ICC - before Lich King was even died), the elements were pretty peaceful by then. Obviously, there weren't any "victorious Northrend expeditions" back then. Those two (earthquakes started before our assault to ICC and first phase of Elemental Unrest) were months (almost an year) apart - as pointed out many times (see above).

Heck, in fact, that paragraph didn't even say that Deathwing caused it. It said the Unrest preceded Deathwing's return, and Deathwing's return shattered Azeroth in process. That's nothing new and I don't think anyone argued against that. So... how is it the answer for the discussion at hand, then?

[Darkarath]

Thanks @Darkarath. Though I have a feeling he'll still claim it isn't necessarily the only reason.

You were right :P

[Qualia]

You were right :P

Why did I expect someone who thought Wild Gods weren't bounded to the Dream by Freya but had that done naturally instead even when that was stated clearly in Chronicle, to be capable of reading and thinking properly in a discussion again?

[Darkarath]

Why did I expect someone who thought Wild Gods weren't bounded to the Dream by Freya but had that done naturally instead even when that was stated clearly in Chronicle, to be capable of reading and thinking properly in a discussion again?

Actually I agreed with you, even if Chronicles seems confusing about this topic:

It doesn't say that they were bound to it naturally, though. It's true that it can be interpreted as such, but there is also the possibility of interpreting it that since Freya used Emerald Dream to seed life accross Azeroth, she bounded her beloved Wild Gods to it as well, in a form of empowerment / protection. Fortunately, we have this bit from Chronicle (after the list of the Wild Gods) that would clarify the issue and explain Freya's reasoning: "It was on the slopes of Hyjal that Freya bound the spirits of her beloved Wild Gods to the Emerald Dream. Inexorably tied to the ethereal realm, they would come to symbolize the health and vitality of Azeroth itself".

That seems to solve the issue, but is strange to me because in Ashamane story it says that she never got close to Freya, but they were bounded even if she doesn't want it.

For instance, when described the Wild Gods, Chronicles states: ''They are creatures of two realms. The Wild Gods inhabit the physical world of Azeroth, but their spirits are bound to the Emerald Dream.'' Not saying that you aren't right, but not a single mention of Freya in their main description seems odd to me.

Later, Chronicles name some of the greatest Wild Gods, not all of them, and says: ''Freya bound the spirits of HER beloved Wild Gods...'' So, as I told you before, you might be right, but this seems open to interpretation. She might only bound the Wild Gods that she knew, but it could be hundreds that she didn't know, and, consequently, that she didn't bound.

[Daan]

Endboss will be a seagull - fled from Eye of Azshara and infiltrated by the legion.

[bloodmoth13]

He is scared of the Void Titans, not the Void Lords. The Void Titans aren't the Void Lords. At best, you can say that he is scared of their ability to corrupt things - infant Titans in particular - but that doesn't mean anything about their strength. In fact, he found them out when the most powerful among them manifested. He realized they were far more powerful than the demons and was concerned about the meaning of their existences to the universe, yet he still continued his war with the demons and just made a mental note to confront them after he is done. Compare that attitude to when Sargeras found out a big threat (the possibility of a Void Titan being born): he immediately stop his war with demons, summoned the Pantheon and reported everything to them - one can say that it doesn't seem like Sargeras was that much bothered about the Void Lords themselves. I'm already being careful to put the Void Lords' power level at "questionable" instead of just "below the Titans" since they are supposedly the current big bads and Blizzard have a lot of time to hype them up.

Feel free to give me any quote I missed about Sargeras being scared of the Void Lords' strength / power. I'm pretty sure we have none at the moment.

yeah, this. He fears them the way you fear a disease, not the way you would fear godzilla.

[3mperor]

Here me out here but remember how the whole of the Ahn'qiraji were subdued by C'thun what if the Legion is being controlled by some greater Void source or Void Titan already. Or if we do kill Sargeras the Void Lords Appear

[Magical Mudcrab]

Sargeras needs to die already. Sick of the misconception that he's the most OP thing in the universe.

It's a misconception if you want to ignore the current lore and statements by the developers.
He's the most powerful Titan, which were envied by the Void Lords (the creators of the Old Gods) for their power. You could argue that Azeroth is more powerful, but it's dormant. Other than that, there's nothing that really compares.

[Farrarie]

Sargeras is the strongest in the wow universe 1vs1
and with the fel fused
he is the strongest in the wow universe 1vs 5 strongest being only weaker than the fel titan

[Grimfrost]

Is it confirmed that 7.3 will be last patch of legion?

[WolfRider]

Is it confirmed that 7.3 will be last patch of legion?

I don't know, I doubt it will be the last. I think there will be a 7.4 that will lead to the next expansion.
7.1 is about Illidan's resurrection, kill Gul'Dan and get the final Pillar of Creation.
7.2 is about pushing back the Legion at the Broken Shores and chase the Legion from the Tomb Of Sargeras.
7.3 is about Illidan's former plan : go to Argus and end the Legion there. Illidan planned to blow up the planet, so I think it will happen.
7.4 could be :
Somebody (Jaina? Odyn?) takes the Pillars of Creation in Dalaran and close the gate at the Tomb Of Sargeras while we're on Argus. As the planet is slowly exploding, we need to find a way to return to Azeroth. Illidan uses the Sargeras Keystone (or something else) to open a portal back to our Planet. We discover that Dalaran has been attacked and a new Island has raised south of the Broken Shores. We find out that Old God minions and Nagas are all over the Island and they are protecting a Titanic Prison : N'Zoth's jail.
The new questline leads us to investigate who took the Pillars to isolate us on Argus and raised the Island. We discover that it was [Jaina or Odyn] and we've been tricked since the beginning by the last Old God. The last raid will be N'Zoth's prison, with Nagas, some Twilight Hammer's followers, Old God's minions and the last boss will be a corrupted [Jaina or Odyn]. But N'Zoth has already escaped from its prison.

[Grimfrost]

I don't know, I doubt it will be the last. I think there will be a 7.4 that will lead to the next expansion.
7.1 is about Illidan's resurrection, kill Gul'Dan and get the final Pillar of Creation.
7.2 is about pushing back the Legion at the Broken Shores and chase the Legion from the Tomb Of Sargeras.
7.3 is about Illidan's former plan : go to Argus and end the Legion there. Illidan planned to blow up the planet, so I think it will happen.
7.4 could be :
Somebody (Jaina? Odyn?) takes the Pillars of Creation in Dalaran and close the gate at the Tomb Of Sargeras while we're on Argus. As the planet is slowly exploding, we need to find a way to return to Azeroth. Illidan uses the Sargeras Keystone (or something else) to open a portal back to our Planet. We discover that Dalaran has been attacked and a new Island has raised south of the Broken Shores. We find out that Old God minions and Nagas are all over the Island and they are protecting a Titanic Prison : N'Zoth's jail.
The new questline leads us to investigate who took the Pillars to isolate us on Argus and raised the Island. We discover that it was [Jaina or Odyn] and we've been tricked since the beginning by the last Old God. The last raid will be N'Zoth's prison, with Nagas, some Twilight Hammer's followers, Old God's minions and the last boss will be a corrupted [Jaina or Odyn]. But N'Zoth has already escaped from its prison.

Yeah like, i don't think 7.3 is last patch either

[Caerule]

If you think there's going to be a 7.4 you're setting yourself up for disappointment.. Blizz made a big deal out of announcing the story not ending in 7.2, as was the case in WoD with 6.2. The exciting announcement was that the story would have a finish in 7.3, in Argus. Where we're going to strike a decisive blow against the Legion.

[Dahlia Dawnseeker]

I have two words for you lot.

Prophet. Velen.

[Raetary]

I have two words for you lot.

Prophet. Velen.

Nah, he's the last who would fall to darkness.

[Dahlia Dawnseeker]

Nah, he's the last who would fall to darkness.

Nobody is above getting corrupted, goddammit.

[gcsmith]

I hope that we find the remnants of the titans soon and speak to them. Or at least, hope we get back Wrathion and have him tell us all the titans told him.

[Deleted]

Except for the players

How come? We've already seen Alliance vs. Horde pvp.

[Crawclaw]

I think I may have posted here before, but I'm just going to put in my guesses again. Either the raid will start on Argus and end within the body of Sargeras with the final boss being his Heart or it will stay on Argus, but have a plot twist of Xe'ra being a servant of the void and the final boss.

[Qualia]

Players are not corrupted by supernatural forces. We seem immune to the fel, the old gods, the sha, whatever. We still like to kill each other but not because we are somehow mind controlled.

All those retards friends that I had to hit to break them out of MC / mutation / confusion in various encounters would beg to differ