Thoughts on Tanking and Blood going into Legion (LONG)

[Barael]

I would not recommand using 2 on use trinkets. because they lock out each other and you cant use both at the same time (tich + pod for e.g.)

While DoS is a great DPS trinket i would be careful using it. you cant do anything in the 3secs (can you cancel it?) this can be dangerous while actively tanking.

If you really want to push dps i guess a crit stat stick beats tichondrius.

I didn't think the trinket lockout is universal; some trinkets lock out some other trinkets (or maybe some trinkets lock out all other trinkets?) but I've run Tich with DoS and PoD for a while now and they can all be used simultaneously. This incidentally (at least partially) solves the other point you brought up about being vulnerable while channeling DoS; with the leech from Tich you're also moderately self-healing as well.

So yeah turns out Tichondrius' Fang synergizes best with other trinkets rather than talents/skills. It makes Seed Pod into Bonestorm (well, not quite there but no resource cost either) and Draught safe-ish to use when tanking. Now if only Draught had a 1-min cooldown instead of that stupid 80 sec...

[Deleted]

Got a 915 Hc Tichondrius trinket last night. It doesn't lock other trinkets, at least for me it doesn't lock Seed Pod or Orb of Torment.
At 915ilvl the active gives ~23% leech, short cd so it can be used with VB everytime and has a ridicoulus synergy with BD. The huge amount of strenght it gives (~2370 strenght) is the icing on the cake.

Overrall i would say it's currently one of the strongest trinket for Blood, probably the best in the Nighthold.

[Deleted]

Got a 915 Hc Tichondrius trinket last night. It doesn't lock other trinkets, at least for me it doesn't lock Seed Pod or Orb of Torment.
At 915ilvl the active gives ~23% leech, short cd so it can be used with VB everytime and has a ridicoulus synergy with BD. The huge amount of strenght it gives (~2370 strenght) is the icing on the cake.

Overrall i would say it's currently one of the strongest trinket for Blood, probably the best in the Nighthold.

Then Tichs fang is an exception. Tested pod, infernal contract (lol 8( ) and unbridled fury. they all put a 20 second CD on the other when i activate one of them. are sure you can activate both at the same time? oO

And Tich is never ever one of the best trinkets. The str. amount is the same amount as every other str. trinket. A 915 Odyn or a 915 Chrono would have the same amount. A 915 str. trinket is good for dps yeah, but the effect is so meeeeh.

Why would you stack a trinket cd with VB? VB is so powerful on its own, stacking CDs is a bad idea most of the time. Can you remember dying with VB up?

This *might* change with the announced buffs to trinkets, but imho all NH trinkets have core design issues and no buffs can make them good.

For now, Arcano, Chrono, Stat Stick beat all NH trinkets.

[Spryte]

Got 4 set today, seems pretty nice, means slightly less downtime but it still feels bad giving up a piece of haste/crit gear for a piece of Vers/Mast on Head, Gloves or Back.

Also can I just ask, why are people so obsessed with Versatility all of a sudden? It seems like a lot of people are recommending it.

[Deleted]

Got 4 set today, seems pretty nice, means slightly less downtime but it still feels bad giving up a piece of haste/crit gear for a piece of Vers/Mast on Head, Gloves or Back.

Also can I just ask, why are people so obsessed with Versatility all of a sudden? It seems like a lot of people are recommending it.

Vers has always been the secondbest stat for survivability, pretty close to haste. Crit 'only' offers dps and is very poor in terms of survivability.

[Deleted]

Is Chrono really better than an equal Nightmare Egg Shell? I think I would rather have the more static Haste build up from the Egg than the unreliable Chrono proc.

[bubky]

Chrono shard is just easier to get for tanks. Depends on procrate / uptimes for the real answer but anecdotally ive had both at different times and prefered the feel of egg shells longer and ramping proc.

Also isnt leech pretty underwhelming for tanks, and for blood in particular.
I feel like people are confusing class fantasy with mechanical synergy (outside of VB but read what Schlars wrote a defensive use effect which is only "good" during your big cooldown when you dont need it does not count as synergy)

[Deleted]

Like all the time i am looking for what is the best trinket after a patch note so what are the best trinket for DBK atm? chrono and statstick are better than the rest as usual or NH can give us somethng interresting? because i found the trinket on the first boss pretty nice but maybe i am wrong and it's garbage for us BDK

[Deleted]

Anyone else than me hasn't got ANYTHING from mythic+ weekly chest during all of legion? And yea since start I always had max ilvl coming from it. Already got screwed up twice by shitty 900ilvl loot, gotta love the Rng legion shit. Only managed to get 5 legendaries so far and the only good one is belt + sephuz for dungs mostly. Feels also good to be doing kinda same AoE dmg in almost 900ilvl gear as I did at the start of legion with bad gear, before nerfing our dmg to shit.

[figuratively]

I, too, have gotten many items from my weekly cache that aren't helpful. Often the same slot, week after week. But I wouldn't call five legendaries "only." I only recently got my fourth, I have guildmates who don't have three.

[Tehr]

Awww, pumpkin, only five? I'm so sorry for your terrible luck!

[Nnyco]

anyone on ptr, how long is the new leech buff consumption gives?

[Barael]

After 2,5 months of nothing... Rattlegore Legplates. Feeling pretty sucker punched right now. Fairly sure at this point I'll level an alt or start a DH after Nighthold.

Mind you this was my 4th legendary, only one of which I'm remotely happy with:

1st: Aggramar's (still love them)
2nd: Koltira's (yeah I made the terrible mistake of switching loot spec on a LFR run once), funnily enough a lot better than the Legplates since it at least has good secondaries.
3rd: Sephus' (lol)

I just passed the statistical "limit" for 4th legendary (so got it pretty much on cue) and the 5th requires as much as the four first combined so really uninterested in going through that just to give RNGesus a chance to surprise buttsecks me with the Cloak or some shit.

[Deleted]

anyone on ptr, how long is the new leech buff consumption gives?

Appartenly 20%.

After 2,5 months of nothing... Rattlegore Legplates. Feeling pretty sucker punched right now. Fairly sure at this point I'll level an alt or start a DH after Nighthold.

Mind you this was my 4th legendary, only one of which I'm remotely happy with:

1st: Aggramar's (still love them)
2nd: Koltira's (yeah I made the terrible mistake of switching loot spec on a LFR run once), funnily enough a lot better than the Legplates since it at least has good secondaries.
3rd: Sephus' (lol)

I just passed the statistical "limit" for 4th legendary (so got it pretty much on cue) and the 5th requires as much as the four first combined so really uninterested in going through that just to give RNGesus a chance to surprise buttsecks me with the Cloak or some shit.

Me too. Got my fourth last week and it was Aggramar, the others being Lana'thel, Sephuz and Prydaz. Three generic legendaries sure a a let down.
Going with Aggramar and Lanathel as of now, but I don't really care as I am rerolling into Brewmaster (not 'cause of legendaries, I simply can't stand current blood anymore), but I and many others certainly understand how frustrating can be to farm for months just to get an unwanted legendary.

[Shoat]

Appartenly 20%.

I think he meant duration ("how long", not "how many %"), because that's not listed anywhere in our online sources and can only be seen by someone who's actually ON the PTR.

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

does the 2p set bonus also increase the resouces generated by heartbreaker?

[Tojara]

Blood feels okay in Nighthold, just, not the best at anything, at least from what I experienced so far. Thank god for the boneshield change though, or it would have been an absolute nightmare.

Part of the reason that blood just feels okay, is because a few of the other tanks just feel absolutely broken in regards to certain criteria. We do nothing amazing, and aside from mass grip on a couple bosses, nothing actually screams that you need a blood DK.

Damage wise pretty much every tank can do more damage than us right now. But protection warriors and paladins for example, with proper talents are pretty disgusting. Druids aren't that far behind, and it seems like Druids are still either the best at everything, or simply second best at everything. Nearly every tank for example that solo soaks the roots on P3 Mythic Botanist is a druid tank just keeping their 30% magic DR up the entire time, something that no other tank can realistically do with such ease. Why the ability doesn't have a CD to some degree is absolutely mind boggling to me, especially considering the niche of magic damage tank wasn't exactly what you through of Guardian Druids in expansions past.

Then you have Brewmasters who are silently OP. Aside from their damage (which isn't as bad as what it use to be, and is actually competitive), I think Blizzard was actually right in telling the community that they were good all along, and that people were just bad. Well that and the very slow realization by Blizzard that Guardian Druids are excessively overpowered, and that Warriors were as well (at least at launch). Brewmasters are kings of ignoring thinks that will kill other tanks. For example a lot of guilds doing Mythic Tichondrius with a Brewmaster can usually do two stacks of bloods fairly easily without risking death on tank, if you try this on other tanks you're going to have to pop a lot of CDs however. Now, Brewmasters might have actually been really bad, but the constant tweaks and buffs (especially in 7.1.5) have made them incredibly strong, to which you see them a lot in top Mythic guilds currently. I won't say I'm too upset though, considering (regardless of community perception) that they were non-existent prior.

That said I felt good on Gul'dan (Heroic anyway). With proper talent setup, you can solo every single 100 energy Felscythe in addition to doing every single one of your empowered bonds by yourself as well. How much that helps, I don't know, but it makes healing the tanks incredibly easy and takes away from some coordination of possible saving your tank from bonds!

Part of the problem with blood right now is that it doesn't really do anything better than the other tanks. Certainly not the worst state we have been in, but it certainly doesn't feel exciting either. If there were fights that AMS could block debuffs we would be good, but they seem pretty careful not to throw something like that in that could potentially make us by far the best choice for a single encounter!

[Deleted]

Blood feels okay in Nighthold, just, not the best at anything, at least from what I experienced so far. Thank god for the boneshield change though, or it would have been an absolute nightmare.

Part of the reason that blood just feels okay, is because a few of the other tanks just feel absolutely broken in regards to certain criteria. We do nothing amazing, and aside from mass grip on a couple bosses, nothing actually screams that you need a blood DK.

Damage wise pretty much every tank can do more damage than us right now. But protection warriors and paladins for example, with proper talents are pretty disgusting. Druids aren't that far behind, and it seems like Druids are still either the best at everything, or simply second best at everything. Nearly every tank for example that solo soaks the roots on P3 Mythic Botanist is a druid tank just keeping their 30% magic DR up the entire time, something that no other tank can realistically do with such ease. Why the ability doesn't have a CD to some degree is absolutely mind boggling to me, especially considering the niche of magic damage tank wasn't exactly what you through of Guardian Druids in expansions past.

Then you have Brewmasters who are silently OP. Aside from their damage (which isn't as bad as what it use to be, and is actually competitive), I think Blizzard was actually right in telling the community that they were good all along, and that people were just bad. Well that and the very slow realization by Blizzard that Guardian Druids are excessively overpowered, and that Warriors were as well (at least at launch). Brewmasters are kings of ignoring thinks that will kill other tanks. For example a lot of guilds doing Mythic Tichondrius with a Brewmaster can usually do two stacks of bloods fairly easily without risking death on tank, if you try this on other tanks you're going to have to pop a lot of CDs however. Now, Brewmasters might have actually been really bad, but the constant tweaks and buffs (especially in 7.1.5) have made them incredibly strong, to which you see them a lot in top Mythic guilds currently. I won't say I'm too upset though, considering (regardless of community perception) that they were non-existent prior.

That said I felt good on Gul'dan (Heroic anyway). With proper talent setup, you can solo every single 100 energy Felscythe in addition to doing every single one of your empowered bonds by yourself as well. How much that helps, I don't know, but it makes healing the tanks incredibly easy and takes away from some coordination of possible saving your tank from bonds!

Part of the problem with blood right now is that it doesn't really do anything better than the other tanks. Certainly not the worst state we have been in, but it certainly doesn't feel exciting either. If there were fights that AMS could block debuffs we would be good, but they seem pretty careful not to throw something like that in that could potentially make us by far the best choice for a single encounter!

Again. If you HAVE to critisize something, you will find something.

I can EASILY think of atleast 5 bosses, that will make it easier for the raid as blood(as like the best tank spec out of all). Your post says more of your experience:

Adds:
Skorp(mass grip).
Ticho(mass grip).
Kronos(mass grip).

Sqeezing mechanics with AMZ(we talk about completly ignoring crucial mechanics - I don't know what else should scream after a blood DK):
Augur(complete removal of dots you must place).
Spell Blade(massive reduction in all that magic dots/spell)
Elisande(the balls you can walk throu with zero damage taken).

Even me who have a blood as off-spec, can finish 15+ with zero itemization.

I think blood is doing just fine, just as they always been doing. Its all about this dumb casual community(i don't know what the hell you or other people are expecting).

[Deleted]

The real problem with Blood dks is not performance, every player who's not in a hardcore progression guild will do just fine in NH. Not saying dks are good, they are without a doubt the wrost tank currently, but its seriously a non issue for the majority of players.
The real issue here is that dks have an extremely boring and linear gameplay. There are no real talent choices, our artifact traits and abilites are almost a joke and there is no gameplay thought while taking: keep BS over 5 stacks, use D&D on cd, spam HS, use DS when needed. That's it, that's the depth of blood gameplay, you will keep doing this from LFR Nythaendra to Mythic Gul'dan.
There is close to none decision making when tanking with blood right now, which also translate into poor versatility when facing different mechanics. I would dare to say that Legion IS the wrost state blood dks has ever been. For me at least, it's so mindnumbing that I decided to switch main for the first time since I started playing.

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

ditto as far as normal and heroic are concerned blood is fine and dandy havnt jumped in mythic yet but i dont think id have many issues on the earlier bosses with a few more upgrades