Political world metamorphose

[igualitarist]

Trumps grandfather comes from germany.

We germans are doomed. We produce the bad guys. Karl Marx. Joseph Göbbels. Donald Trump.

Ohhh god, and there are still Horkheimer, Adorno, Marcuse and Habermas. Damn germany !!
At least you guys make good cars and beers.

[Deleted]

At least you guys make good cars and beers.

And Strudel.

[primalmatter]

Yeah, somehow I do not see this happening. As a person who is not attached to land, but values Western/Humanistic ideals, I do not see the majority on either side trying to destroy the other. And if it does come to that, I fully support conscious AI taking over civilization. We are apparently too stupid as a species to achieve any semblance of stable peace.

It wont be anything like a war... eventually people will crack down hard on leftist riots and cops will once again set up their game. Nations will focus on walls and boarders and wealth will be horded inward. It is a cycle what we are seeing currently is a return to the nation state and a collapse of globalism.

There are somethings that will change that will mame people very uncomfortable but that is the nature of the beast.

The only way to achieve lasting peace is through nightmarish brutality sadly...

I stand as your opposite. I measure things in what is possible what resoirces it will require and what is best for my nation. I have very little care for ills beyond my own boarders. We must struggle and rise higher each time.

[telygroar]

you know, russia try to inviting herself in the french presidency too she's about to share information about another one favorite for the presidency from the left.
By the way, newspaper have started to make a fake-news hunt to not let the election go like the us presidency since falke news mysteriously started to appear too.

[Super Kami Dende]

The world has forgotten the lessons of world war 1 and 2, so they want to give fascism a(nother) chance.

No they don't, it's why they voted in Trump instead of Hitllary.

[primalmatter]

Or an enlightened society that is self disciplined...

Your world sounds, to me, like a Dystopia I would never want to be a part of.

And entertaining your idea, not all people will stand for it, as police states tend to stop innovation/science/progress, etc, so expect the rich elite to bascailly create an Elysium like setup, or a new Mars colony of people who value freedom.

I see the future more like CERN; where nations work together to solve problems. You see it more like? If I had to guess, a very regimented structured society of people that look and think alike.

I see a world were people are genetically designed... taking the best of each sub species of human in order to maximize parental. I see a united earth in time but under one language and one belief. I see national socialism (not the nazi party but the system of government they designed) as the ideal ruling system of such a world.

If I have to pick a fantasy world I would pick warhammer 40k but instead of a emporer there is simply man.

[Wyrt]

No they don't, it's why they voted in Trump instead of Hitllary.

You mean the guy that's trying to delegitimatize judges and is threatening economic sanctions on his own people? Yeah, he's totally not fascist at all.

[JohnBrown1917]

To address the emboldened point first, that may be true on things like welfare, healthcare and employment rights, but at the moment, national security and immigration control is something the Right seems to want to take more seriously than the Left and that is winning a lot of workers over.

Thats more of a authoritarian than a left vs right wing though.
Its also important to note that made very big changes will also get them to lose votes, so its better to just stick to the parties principles.

The Left tends to fracture more than the Right. It's just the nature of the two sides. So, multiple Leftist parties will only divide voters and make it easier for the Right to remain in power.

Seeing as those left wing parties can just form coalitions, its not a huge problem.

[JohnBrown1917]

Trumps grandfather comes from germany.

We germans are doomed. We produce the bad guys. Karl Marx. Joseph Göbbels. Donald Trump.

Karl marx is hardly anywhere close to those people, he was never part of an authoritarian regime.

[Deleted]

The % of seats left-wing parties gets has not changed that much over the past 100 years here.
And if 1 party fucks up? Well, thats that parties own fault, plenty of other left wing parties to choose from. The Right-wing parties will never benefit the worker class more than a left wing party will.

Even in the US, Sanders would have been far better than Trump.

This is fundamentally wrong.

What you meant to say is that the Right-wing parties will never benefit poor people on welfare as much.

True, but here's the thing: Most people are not poor. Most working class families stand to gain nothing from increased taxation, a battered and over regulated economy and government spending their money for them.

8 years of Obama has been terrible for well-off middle class people. We've been taxed like we're rich, but we're not.

[primalmatter]

But again, that is just very... bland.... you need some drama or the whole thing falls apart. Everyone being the same (physically, etc) is not actually a good thing. Genetically having a large gene pool is better than one that is mostly the same. The species is more resilient. Personally, I would rather have a world where people can do as they wish, so far as they do not harm others. That means looking or being as they like to look or be (with genetic engineering, and cybernetic stuff incoming.)

Such a world will always fall to infighting and violence. I don't seek to destroy creativity but rather elevate mankind itself.

I simply do not see us at a technological state for that to be possible so the nation must suffice until we are capable of unity.

[Sevyvia]

These sort of things are a cyclical... we will swing back to the left eventually... until then expect a rise in nationalism and violence on both sides.

Because the left is so peaceful, now and historically.

SO peaceful.

Yeah.

[Deleted]

Karl marx is hardly anywhere close to those people, he was never part of an authoritarian regime.

Probably you are right. But still Karl Marx created a philosophy that killed millions of people. He surely never intended that, but an ideology that was as blind about the human nature just had the destiny to fail miserably.

Karl Marx was right about the development of capitalism. But he was not right about the consequences and how to prevent a development like that.

[JohnBrown1917]

This is fundamentally wrong.

What you meant to say is that the Right-wing parties will never benefit poor people on welfare as much.

True, but here's the thing: Most people are not poor. Most working class families stand to gain nothing from increased taxation, a battered and over regulated economy and government spending their money for them.

8 years of Obama have been terrible for well-off middle class people. We've been taxed like we're rich, but we're not.

The point is to increase taxes on the rich so the workers have to pay less, in most left-wing systems.
All labour or workers parties are also left-wing, so you really gotta try harder.


worker protections, lower risk of ending up poor, more affordable eduction etc.. will benefit worker class families.

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Because the left is so peaceful, now and historically.

SO peaceful.

Yeah.

How is the right better? Did you forget about human nature?

[Deleted]

The point is to increase taxes on the rich so the workers have to pay less, in most left-wing systems.
All labour or workers parties are also left-wing, so you really gotta try harder.

And by taxing the rich into oblivion you destroy the economy, Jimmy Carter called and wanted his policies back. As for labor parties being left wing (duh?), I'm sure Stalin thought he was a man of the people too.

Your so called worker's parties only ever accomplish one thing: they redistribute misery, they do not grow the economy.

[primalmatter]

Well, a world that is inhabited by people that lack discipline, yes, that would start infighting and violence. Because most people attack/fear anything that is different from them.

The point is that with the right discipline, the right world view, you can surpass that. Whether we do that with genetic engineering, or mind training programs, or philosophy, or drugs, like in the "Island", it is possible without being an authoritarian state.

But people are told they need to be controlled by external forces, and they buy into it. They follow strong men like Putin, Stalin, Hitler, etc... because it is easier being told what to do, than figuring out what to do by yourself.

Or we are stronger united under one rule...

I do not believe we can truly achieve our full potential until the last holy man is crushed by the stones of the last church.

I see unity towards a goal. While at least from my point of view you seems naive... but its something I wish could be.

[PC2]

The point is to increase taxes on the rich so the workers have to pay less, in most left-wing systems.
All labour or workers parties are also left-wing, so you really gotta try harder.

Well that's not what Democrats do. If you ask them to make the statement that they will never raise taxes except on the 1%, they wont. They use the rhetoric then never pinpoint target the ultra rich.

[Cerilis]

trumps grandfather comes from germany.

We germans are doomed. We produce the bad guys. Karl marx. Joseph göbbels. Donald trump.

noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo!

[JohnBrown1917]

And by taxing the rich into oblivion you destroy the economy, Jimmy Carter called and wanted his policies back. As for labor parties being left wing (duh?), I'm sure Stalin thought he was a man of the people too.

Your so called worker's parties only ever accomplish one thing: they redistribute misery, they do not grow the economy.

Our economy was doing fine, if not great, under Willem Drees, Wim Kok, etc...

But that is not the point, the point was that parties that represent the workers the best are on the left.

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Well that's not what Democrats do. If you ask them to make the statement that they will never raise taxes except on the 1%, they wont. They use the rhetoric then never pinpoint target the ultra rich.

Probably because they are to the right of even the social democrats.
The problem is your 2-party system.

[Yvaelle]

Well that's not what Democrats do. If you ask them to make the statement that they will never raise taxes except on the 1%, they wont. They use the rhetoric then never pinpoint target the ultra rich.

Because the DNC, like the GOP, are corporatists.

They aren't progressives, or liberals, or left-wing: DINO's.