Trump reportedly caves in on One China policy

[Garnier Fructis]

People: "OMG Trump is shaking the China boat, that crazy bastard!"
Same people: "OMG Trump caved in on the whole China boat shaking thingy, that corrupt mother fucker!".

Trump does something different: Everybody loses their mind.
Trump does something everybody does: Everybody loses their mind.

Let's face it, the left and the media don't have a problem with what he does, but with who he is.

Counter-example reporting in.

[Underverse]

On the one hand, yeah, the why does matter.

On the other hand, if he consistently does the right thing for the wrong reasons, I'm at least a bit more comfortable with that.

The reasons matter a lot when you're considering future actions. If Trump is really just using his position to make himself and his family more money, that will lead to a lot of shitty decisions down the road. He'll basically be an easy bribe target for other nations.

[ringpriest]

Let me guess. The Nazis on the moon are the reason, right?

Please. Moon nazis are so 2012 - now everyone knows the Nazis are in the Center of the Earth (and that they're lizard people, too).

[Underverse]

Also both are imaginary things that people say. Good job on missing the point.

Craziness and corruption are imaginary?

[Dextroden]

...

Good one, I guess?

It's not Nazis?

[Elim Garak]

Craziness and corruption are imaginary?

Also obtuse.

[Underverse]

It's not Nazis?

Do you actually have something to contribute?

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Also obtuse.

Feel free to make a point if you want. Insults are pretty weak insofar as arguments go. So far you're just confirming that you have nothing useful to add to this conversation.

[Dextroden]

Do you actually have something to contribute?

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Feel free to make a point if you want. Insults are pretty weak insofar as arguments go. So far you're just confirming that you have nothing useful to add to this conversation.

And you did besides Trump paranoia?

[Deletedaccount1]

I have no doubt that Trump is mentally handicapped. But I think he's intelligent enough to know how to pursue money.

And still, even if we assume that what you're saying is true, that doesn't answer the question of why he backed down after a phone call. He doesn't do that unless his feet are being held to the fire.

It explains it exactly. My thesis being that Trump says whatever he is thinking with no regard for the consequences. Xi probably just told him what the consequences would be if Trump didn't accept the One China policy and Trump went "oh shit, that's pretty bad, I didn't think about that yeah I'll back down".

[Underverse]

And you did besides Trump paranoia?

What paranoia? I laid out an intuitive argument with multiple points suggesting possibilities for Trump's behavior. You did nothing except talk about moon-Nazis in an attempt to detract the weight of my argument.

Let's think about this, shall we?

>Trump says he is against the one China policy
>Trump gets a phone call from Xi
>Trump changes his position and says he is for the one China policy

Now, we don't know what Xi said to change Trump's mind. But do we think that it's likely that Xi just asked nicely and Trump agreed? Probably not - that sounds very un-Trump-like, and it would be very unusual for anyone to change their mind on a stated position that they weren't just using as a means to an end (such as identity politics or other popularity propellant). Perhaps Xi offered something in return? Also unlikely, because Trump would brag about how he made 'the best deal' - something he has done repeatedly for far more dubious 'deals' that he's made.

The third option is, of course, that Xi threatened to withdraw something if Trump did not agree to accept his terms. What could he withdraw? Let's see, it could be something to do with trade, but Trump would probably not care/see this move as positive, since something like tariffs on US imports would barely affect the US and give Trump a precedent for actively pursuing Taiwan and perhaps imposing far more destructive tariffs on Chinese imports. It couldn't really have anything to do with the US, in fact, because any move that China makes in response to Trump's rhetoric here would be seen as a first strike which would justify some sort of American response. It could, however, have something to do with Trump as an individual; a personal slight - specifically concerning something that Trump would rather have remain hidden - would not set a precedent for a coordinated American response. What might fall into this category? Well, it could be something like evidence that Trump likes to get pissed on by Russian prostitutes. Alternatively, it could be something like Trump's businesses owing hundreds of millions of dollars to Chinese banks. Certainly, we don't know for sure. But there is a lot of circumstantial evidence here that Trump's financial interests might be playing a role in the decisions he is making. This warrants further review, especially coupled with his refusal to release his tax returns and his demonstrated willingness to use his office to support his family's businesses (see: criticism of Nordstrom).

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It explains it exactly. My thesis being that Trump says whatever he is thinking with no regard for the consequences. Xi probably just told him what the consequences would be if Trump didn't accept the One China policy and Trump went "oh shit, that's pretty bad, I didn't think about that yeah I'll back down".

And what consequences are those? Are those consequences different from what his advisers are telling him? And if they are, why would Trump believe Xi over his advisers? When has Trump ever taken the word of an outsider over the word of an insider? If these consequences are the same as what his advisers were telling him, why would he not heed the advice of his advisers in the first place? It seems very likely here that new information was introduced.

Again, this only really makes sense if these 'consequences' affect Trump alone. Otherwise they can be perceived as threats to national interest and he could use that as leverage for further action.

[Allerius]

Wild speculation with no information will surely be productive.

[Elim Garak]

Feel free to make a point if you want. Insults are pretty weak insofar as arguments go. So far you're just confirming that you have nothing useful to add to this conversation.

I made my point in my original post. You ignored it and went tangential into a dead end of irrelevancy where you slammed your head into the wall of obtuseness.

[Independent voter]

Why did Trump care about the "One China Policy" it's been US policy for years what possible good could come from changing it?

What constituency is he aiming for?

I know Taiwanese are passionate about their independence from the mainland but there can't be many American-Taiwanese voters.

[announced]

i'll bet the media will have a field day with this, Trump did something that everyone advised him to do. Somehow Trump will end up being the bad guy despite making the apparent correct decision.

[Merkava]

"Trump tells Chinese president US will honor 'one China' policy"


Trump owes the Bank of China (owned by the government of the PRC), "hundreds of millions of dollars". Of course, if there's anything the last year has demonstrated, it's how muchlittle Trump's word is worth.

Trump seems to take the advice of the last person he talks to. I would imagine that this might change.

[Breccia]

Trump does something different: Everybody loses their mind.
Trump does something everybody does: Everybody loses their mind.

Counterclaim:
Trump does something to intentionally piss off one of the strongest countries on the planet, both militarily and fiscally, for absolutely zero reason: Everyone loses their mind.
Trump 180s his stance and caves like a spineless little bitch under the full pressing weight of reality: Everyone catches their breath.

Let's face it, the left and the media don't have a problem with what he does, but with who he is.

Let's face it: no matter what Trump does, which position he claims to hold and which actions he takes, some people will defend it blindly and make comments about "the left" to try to disguise the fact that their candidate is a corrupt incompetent used car salesman who has demonstrated yet again he has no idea what he's doing.

And maybe you can read that as me having a problem with who Trump is, but based purely on his history, especially the last two weeks, hell yes I have a problem with who he is, but it's based on what he did.

Oh, and this was a FOX News article. So "the media" is kind of a strange thing for you to say in context.

But you keep deflecting. You keep biting back that buyer's remorse. You keep screaming into the wind "He's going to stand up to China like he said he would! You just wait! You'll see!"

[The Oblivion]

Trump does something different: Everybody loses their mind.
Trump does something everybody does: Everybody loses their mind.

Let's face it, the left and the media don't have a problem with what he does, but with who he is.

basically this, damned if he does, damned if he doesnt.

[Aggrophobic]

Trump does something different: Everybody loses their mind.
Trump does something everybody does: Everybody loses their mind.

Let's face it, the left and the media don't have a problem with what he does, but with who he is.

Don't have to be "left" to have an issue with who he is.
Something is seriously wrong with that man.

[Skulltaker]

basically this, damned if he does, damned if he doesnt.

Donnie demonstrated his massive lack of understanding what the consequences of pissing off china could be. Everyone with a basic understanding of politics and economie could see that. And now it took a call with the leader of said nation, who probably had to spell these consequences out for him letter by letter, to realize what a fuckup that was. He should have called and apologized weeks ago. Or rahter, he shouldn't have made such a huge mistake at the first place, something he should have known if he had anything resembling a brain in that deformed pumpkin he uses for a head.

[Breccia]

basically this, damned if he does, damned if he doesnt.

Well let's be honest here, Trump put himself in a bad position and it's all his own fault. He left himself with basically two options:
a) hostile relations with China
b) caving like a bitch.

Was there a third option I missed? Until then, he does not deserve a speck of credit for taking the option that was less bad. "The left and the media" would have a whole lot less to "damned if he does, damned if he doesn't" if he made some sensible plays every once in a while.

It's not like this was a one-off statement of his, either.

EDIT: Dammit @Skulltaker you ninjad me.