Why are you pro-choice?

[Maletalana]

So if she's 8 1/2 months along, but gets bored and decides she doesn't want it anymore, it's ok for her to abort still, as it should be her "right" to her own autonomy?

Shows you reeeaaaally don't know what you're talking about. Just, medically speaking, that's just not how it works. You are trying to cherry-pick an argument, but that one doesn't even work for you in the first place.

[Machismo]

This isn't a discussion about equality and I have no idea why you think my post has anything to do with that.

It's just his attempt to play the victim card.

[Maletalana]

i am pro-choice with limits.

i feel there is a time when that thing becomes a person, and at that point, it should be illegal to abort unless there are certain circumstances that require abortion, like rape or potential death of the mother.

so, up to the point where the mother's stomach starts to grow in size maybe. when the thing is formed into a humanoid appearance. when it looks like a person, that should be the cut off.

My counter-argument is that you rely on there being a federal jurisdiction mandating that others comply with you opinions. So many people confuse pro-choice / pro-life that it depends on when the fetus becomes a person. That isn't the issue at all. The issue is with there being a law written forcing others to comply with your opinion.

If YOU believe that at X months, the fetus is a baby, then don't get an abortion for yourself then, and feel free to suggest that path to your friends and family.

It should not be written into law *when* it becomes a baby.

- - - Updated - - -

Because I don't give birth to anything - Let women have the choice
Obviously, between 2 adults there should be a discussion if a child is wanted or not.

IMO abortion should be available as long as it's safe to do, instead of declining because "it looks like something".

Please run for public office. Well said.


Tangential: Is it the Government's responsibility to pay for them to be done, be ensure everyone has the opportunity? If your religious beliefs are what lead you to the opinion to not support abortions, should you still be forced, through taxes, to fund abortions for others?

[Dug]

Stop spreading ignorance.

In the mainstream it's basically the main argument. But if you can find one pro-life politician who's an atheist I'll agree with you.

[derpkitteh]

My counter-argument is that you rely on there being a federal jurisdiction mandating that others comply with you opinions. So many people confuse pro-choice / pro-life that it depends on when the fetus becomes a person. That isn't the issue at all. The issue is with there being a law written forcing others to comply with your opinion.

If YOU believe that at X months, the fetus is a baby, then don't get an abortion for yourself then, and feel free to suggest that path to your friends and family.

It should not be written into law *when* it becomes a baby.

if killing at the stage it becomes a person should not be illegal, then why should it be illegal to kill any child you want to? both are depending on another person for survival, both are people at that point. it's illegal to kill the child though, because it is a person.

[Ehrenpanzer]

I am personally pro-life. Unlike a lot of people though, I realise that not everyone should have to live under my ideals of morality.

[Lady Dragonheart]

Economic Awareness > Too Many Unwanted Children > Body Autonomy > Extremely Unsafe/Unhealthy Alternative > Everything Else

[Thetruth1400]

Why am I pro-choice in the USA : Because outlawing abortion is the alternative which leads to :

1) Females being seen by society as nothing more then incubators that can simply be raped when males would like a child if females don't have the option to abort a product of rape.

How sick in the head are you that you think that's how people actually think? Only 0.5% of all abortions are the result of rape / incest.

2) An explosive increase in the number of unwanted children forced into an already over-loaded foster care system that lacks proper resources to take care of existing unwanted children.

Another extreme over exaggeration. There are only roughly 700,000 abortions a year in the US for both medical (7%) and non medical reasons (90%), the remaining 3% being listed as other, in studies. By contrast, there are 4,000,000 "wanted" births a year. The US population has 318,900,000 people, so we're talking a whopping 0.2% population increase by no abortions.

3) An explosive increase in illegal abortions, including ones that potentially endanger the life of the mother and ones that are particularly inhumane, because of the desperation of females who were raped, don't feel ready to be a mother or coerced by others to abort.

True, but speculation as well. Again, you're using the buzz word of "explosive" to try and support what is a very infrequent thing.

4) An explosive increase in birth defects (a pregnant female who is compelled only by law and not by her own will to give birth is almost certainly not going to take the proper steps necessary to ensure a healthy child).

More speculation. The female human body is designed to do everything it can to protect and nurture growing life. The mothers health will suffer long before a fetus. Likewise, the leading cause of birth defect is advanced maternal age, genetics factors, and lastly environmental factors.

5) An explosive increase in the number of single/extremely young mothers which in turn leads to higher rates of death (pregnant female is so young she can't bear the pregnancy), suicide, crime, welfare dependency, aggressive tendencies in their children, child abuse of unwanted children, etc.

Oh look, your friendly "explosive" speculation. Literally nothing you said here is backed by fact.

6) An explosive increase in the number of false rape accusations, particularly if rape cases are exempt and treated as exceptional cases where abortion is allowed.

Getting tired of the buzzword really. All this will do is clog up the justice system and result in a bunch of women fined or behind bars for false accusations.

7) An explosive increase in poor pregnant females dying from complications because they couldn't afford healthcare during pregnancy.

You literally have a one word vocabulary. Again, no. Not only are there tons of free healthcare clinics that specialize in female pregnancy healthcare, but the ACA ensures coverage for all. Not only that, but literally no hospital can turn a patient away, so the only way people can't get healthcare is if they choose not to, which is their fault.

I'm against these negative consequences on society more than I'm against early-term abortion. As a result, I'm against criminalizing abortion. I'm totally in favor of encouraging people to be smarter about who they sleep with and how, including making it easier for us to adopt children born from females unwilling or incapable of raising them. That's very different from having our government force females at gunpoint who are unwilling/incapable of bearing a child to have the child anyway.



You're against speculation and I get that. The buzzword heavy, "Government's coming to hold you at gunpoint" nonsense though, that helps absolutely no one.

I am personally pro-life. Unlike a lot of people though, I realise that not everyone should have to live under my ideals of morality.

Exactly. For me, I'm morally against it as a form of birth control. Frankly, I feel that if a woman is using abortion as a form of birth control, that we should grant it to them, but also sterilize them while doing the procedure, that way the problem solves itself on turn one instead of repeating it.

Now for health reasons, which again, are only 7% of abortions, I don't feel this should be the case. Yes, they should be perfectly fine in getting the abortion, but no we shouldn't sterilize them.

At the end of the day, I feel like the government really shouldn't have any hand in deciding on the rights of a woman's body. If she wants an abortion, that's on her, for whatever reason. At the same time though, I don't think the government should be funding abortions in any way. If you want an abortion because you don't feel like raising a kid, then fork out the $350-$700 and get it done. That's 70-140 packs of cigarettes, 411 - 822 cans of beer, 140 - 280 gallons of gas, 145 - 290 loaves of bread, etc.

if killing at the stage it becomes a person should not be illegal, then why should it be illegal to kill any child you want to? both are depending on another person for survival, both are people at that point. it's illegal to kill the child though, because it is a person.

One is a physical human being that is dependent on another person doing something to take care of them and one is literally a parasite though. If the mother dies, a fetus can not survive. If the mother dies to a living child, someone else can step in and take care of it. If you come up with a way to take care of a fetus that's completely separated from the mother, I'm sure science would love to hear about it.

[zenkai]

In the mainstream it's basically the main argument. But if you can find one pro-life politician who's an atheist I'll agree with you.

What are you going to tell a Pro-Life Atheist? Separation of Church and State? LOL


http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendl...m-one-of-them/

[igualitarist]

This isn't a discussion about equality and I have no idea why you think my post has anything to do with that.

Weird, usually abortion is a recurring theme is discussions about gender equality. Who knows ?

My post was just to show the double standard that precedes this argument of failed contraceptive method as a excuse for abortion.

Don't know why you got so defensive ? Maybe i exposed some kind of hypocrisy ?

[Machismo]

I don't see how that has anything to do with calculating a simple probability so you can understand that even if you take precautions consistently, you still have a high chance of getting pregnant eventually. I think saying getting pregnant is irresponsible you're saying having sex is irresponsible and I just don't think that's the case.

Your probability (.99 ^ 50) doesn't take into account that pregnancy is not a given. It just means that the birth control did not work. It is entirely possible for it to not work, and the woman still not get pregnant. That's why I posted those either odds, because it deals with percentage chances by the year.

[Dug]

What are you going to tell a Pro-Life Atheist? Separation of Church and State? LOL

No that then becomes a question of morality and ethics. Something religious people are also arguing but their argument comes from a place of religion is my point. How many times have you seen pro-life people/politicians talk about the issue and at some point their religion is brought up... "as a christian.." etc.

Of course the issue is not wholly a religious one but in the main stream it is one of the major talking points and denying that is dishonest.

[Stormspellz]

Bodily autonomy, atheist, and follow scientific reasoning not "feels"

[Deleted]

Bodily autonomy.

pretty much /thread

[zenkai]

Bodily autonomy, atheist, and follow scientific reasoning not "feels"

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendl...m-one-of-them/

merican Atheists President David Silverman wasn’t wrong when he told a reporter at CPAC this week, “I will admit there is a secular argument against abortion” (even if he didn’t agree with that position himself).

[Chaelexi]

I am pro-choice but I do see some arguments for pro-life as being valid and the biggest one is not a religious, beliefs or any of those but comes from the legal side. If someone kills an expecting mother in some circumstances they get hit with a double murder charge because they also killed the child. How is this any different than the killing of a child through abortion willfully.

[Stormspellz]

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friendl...m-one-of-them/

merican Atheists President David Silverman wasn’t wrong when he told a reporter at CPAC this week, “I will admit there is a secular argument against abortion” (even if he didn’t agree with that position himself).

doesn't change the fact a lot of; if not most of the arguments for banning abortion is religious based

[Molis]

A woman can do whatever they want with their bodies.

Government shouldn't dictate this.

[zephid]

Because I see no reason why I shouldn't be.

[xero5141]

This doesn't happen though. I keep hearing about this last minute abortions but never see any sources. I don't doubt their existence but I know for a fact they are not common.

You're misunderstanding, read the post that I quoted. I was using that as an example of a situation where bodily autonomy IS NOT top priority. No one said it's common or that it happens at all.