Coming out as a conservative - How polarization push moderates to take a stand.

[matt4pack]

Considering 'the left' has never done this, while the right actively solicits its crazies...You first.

The right isn't 'becoming more moderate'. People want actual change and the Democrats aren't providing, ergo they were repudiated. The Republicans are running the same shit show that Reagan inaugurated.

The left has pretty much become the party of the don't assume my gender pink haired crazies or whatever else you want to call them. They use to be the party of the working class and are alienating a large segment of the population to support the small fringes of society.

The right is becoming more moderate especially on social issues in polling. Just because the very loud still scream doesn't change the overall trend.

[Elegiac]

The left has pretty much become the party of the don't assume my gender pink haired crazies or whatever else you want to call them. They use to be the party of the working class and are alienating a large segment of the population to support the small fringes of society.

Because the left clearly doesn't support pro-worker policies like higher wages or PTO or parental leave...oh, wait.

I heartily commend your in depth political analysis based on a sample size of tumblr.

The right is becoming more moderate especially on social issues. Just because the very loud still scream doesn't change the overall trend.

The overall trend is that the right wing is at a severe demographic disadvantage.

Moreover, their economic policies are becoming increasingly less popular as the Baby Boomers die the fuck off.

[Stormspellz]

The left has pretty much become the party of the don't assume my gender pink haired crazies or whatever else you want to call them. They use to be the party of the working class and are alienating a large segment of the population to support the small fringes of society.

The right is becoming more moderate especially on social issues in polling. Just because the very loud still scream doesn't change the overall trend.

the "left" is not random people on the internet with a rant blog

how ever the "right" are sure as hell not getting more moderate on social issues, the simple straight forward blunt truth of what legislation the "right" is pushing proves they are just as hard lined on social issues as they always have been, if not more.

[Annoying]

The left has pretty much become the party of the don't assume my gender pink haired crazies or whatever else you want to call them. They use to be the party of the working class and are alienating a large segment of the population to support the small fringes of society.

The right is becoming more moderate especially on social issues in polling. Just because the very loud still scream doesn't change the overall trend.

No. "The left" has this small, vocal minority that you describe. If what you said was true, then by your own descriptions, "the right" has pretty much become the party of racial supremacists and woman-haters. They aren't, but some loud (and small) subset of them are springing up that hold those views. Just like some loud (and small) subset of "the left" sprang up and are screaming in people's faces about assuming gender and such.

The majority of the people are somewhere between two relatively reasonable points of discussion, and everyone focuses on these tiny amounts of people who yell loudly. Because people yelling loudly and doing extreme things makes more money then walking around and discussing things with regular people.

[Deleted]

This is a thread about how politics force people to take a stance.

Well, if I don't agree with the groupthink at work I am fired, so here's that. :/

I don't believe there is nobody else in my company which doesn't agree 100% with the line.

But hey, whatever for rent money.

[matt4pack]

the "left" is not random people on the internet with a rant blog

how ever the "right" are sure as hell not getting more moderate on social issues, the simple straight forward blunt truth of what legislation the "right" is pushing proves they are just as hard lined on social issues as they always have been, if not more.

Polling shows that they are getting more moderate. Just because there is a lot of noise over certain laws being pushed in some locations or there being extremist politicians doesn't change that.

[Elegiac]

Polling shows that they are getting more moderate. Just because certain laws are being pushed in some locations or there are extremist politicians doesn't change that.

You're aware that 'getting more moderate' means 'drifting to the left', right?

[Stormspellz]

Polling shows that they are getting more moderate. Just because there is a lot of noise over certain laws being pushed in some locations or there being extremist politicians doesn't change that.

its not "some locations" its nearly in every gop controlled state house and congress itself. furthermore this some odd ball token sponsored bills: voter disenfranchisement, abortion roll backs, "religious liberty", environmental/wall street deregulation, these are all flying through committee all the way to governor's desks and being signed.

and while democrats did gain seats in congress both in senate and the house, at the state level the same pattern doesn't continue.

so while people as a whole are becoming more moderate, the "right" certainly is not.

[Deleted]

I agree. The left has become far too right wing.

Are you saying it should be illegal to boycott businesses or make public the names of people who are saying shitheaded things?

I'm not saying it should be illegal to boycott businesses, what I am saying is due to the current way the West is, a boycott on a lefist issue (the example that springs to mind is the bakery that wouldn't cater to a gay wedding) can switfly become national news, in which case imo, it goes from being a simple boycott to a hate campaign.

When you can force a private business to go against its own wishes, and you aren't the government, you have power.

[Elegiac]

I'm not saying it should be illegal to boycott businesses, what I am saying is due to the current way the West is, a boycott on a lefist issue (the example that springs to mind is the bakery that wouldn't cater to a gay wedding) can switfly become national news, in which case imo, it goes from being a simple boycott to a hate campaign.

Pointing out selective discrimination is a 'hate campaign'. Right.

When you can force a private business to go against its own wishes, and you aren't the government, you have power.

Your issue seems to be that people aren't as willing to overlook discrimination as they used to.

[Deleted]

Pointing out selective discrimination is a 'hate campaign'. Right.

Your issue seems to be that people aren't as willing to overlook discrimination as they used to.

Not at all. My issue is that why does someones religious freedoms get trampled upon instead of simply telling the gay couple to go somewhere else?

I personally don't agree with the bakery in that situation, think its pretty stupid to hate someone for the way they were born.

And yes, when it becomes national news that a single bakery refused to serve 2 people, it becomes a hate campaign, regardless of whether you dress that up in quotation marks or not.

This is my entire point, if those bakers had declined for a different reason, it would have been fine, no issue. But because it was discrimination to a minority group, they get the metaphorical sledgehammer brought down on there tiny peanut of a business.

Step out of line, get your life ruined. That is what the Left stands for now.

[Elegiac]

Not at all. My issue is that why does someones religious freedoms get trampled upon instead of simply telling the gay couple to go somewhere else?

Because 'religious freedom' is a wash as an argument in this case, unless you're refusing to sell cakes to anyone not of your particular denomination.

Step out of line, get your life ruined. That is what the Left stands for now.

What makes you think moderates don't engage in these boycotts?

[cubby]

I’m a gay New Yorker — and I’m coming out as a conservative - February 11th 2017


Source: http://nypost.com/2017/02/11/im-a-ga...-conservative/

If you think Moore's story is isolated, think again. With the polarization taking wings in our society, many people are being forced to make a choice that they'd rather not have to do. This mean taking a stance against family members, friends, teachers and spheres of society where we grew up.

What's worse is that conservatives have become the new progressives -- where ideas and free speech are prioritized -- while liberals, who used to have that title, has become the group of conservative "liberal" authoritarianism. It's ironic in a sense and quite frankly I still have a hard time to grasp how such a thing is even possible.

Personally, I don't think I'll ever be able to be an integral part of the right. It's so fundamentally against my own deeply held beliefs that it's simply beyond my grasp. But I do have to say that if I have to make a choice, if I keep being pushed to make a decision, I will side with them and put my values on the side until balance has been restored.

PS: This is not a sexual orientation thread. This is a thread about how politics force people to take a stance.

EDIT: I've seen some people think that conservatism is the opposite of progressiveness. This couldn't be farther from the truth - historically, progressiveness and conservatism worked hand-in-hand. For those who'd rather take a quick glance to learn more, head on the official wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

There are a number of problems with this post - and it's hard to know where to begin. @BloodElf4Life - despite your desire to be objective, you usually side with the conservative view of things. This post is a perfect example.

The post itself, where a "former liberal" has "come out" as a "conservative" - seems a little far fetched, but okay. It's an interesting piece with a varied perspective. Certainly helps to see the full picture and make sure my behavior is one of openness. That's good.

But then, with this:

What's worse is that conservatives have become the new progressives -- where ideas and free speech are prioritized -- while liberals, who used to have that title, has become the group of conservative "liberal" authoritarianism. It's ironic in a sense and quite frankly I still have a hard time to grasp how such a thing is even possible.

You head into your usual la-la land. Conservatives, as they stand now, are the antithesis of new ideas and openness to free speech. I'm not sure how you could come to such a ridiculous conclusion - it's beyond fathomable that anyone who has paid any attention to the new conservative leaders (Trump, Conway, Bannon, Spier, etc) could ever reach this conclusion.

So, I can only assume you're making this post and drawing ridiculous conclusions to either troll the forums some more or bait people into getting banned. Either way, your intellectual honestly remains at it's usual level: Non-existent.


And then with this beauty:

EDIT: I've seen some people think that conservatism is the opposite of progressiveness. This couldn't be farther from the truth - historically, progressiveness and conservatism worked hand-in-hand. For those who'd rather take a quick glance to learn more, head on the official wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressivism

You delightfully attempt to claim that conservatism equates with progress, when the opposite is in fact true. And some wikilink about Progressivism doesn't do even a lick of good to batter down the logic you wish to destroy. At every step of the way, every progressive movement, has been led by the "liberal" side. I would challenge you to show me different.

(and I'm sure we'll see your usual deflection rather than a real discussion, but we have to keep trying to educate you - despite yourself)

[Deleted]

Because 'religious freedom' is a wash as an argument in this case, unless you're refusing to sell cakes to anyone not of your particular denomination.

I understand that its a shitty argument coming from the bakery. My point is, it shouldn't even be an argument, they have the right to serve or not serve anyone they want, that is law, and yet apparently, if your one of the select groups that the Left cares aobut, you force those laws not to exist for you.

What makes you think moderates don't engage in these boycotts?

Never said they didn't, I imagine they do, since the majority of people are moderates, going back to my original point of the Left being far more Orwellian than the Right, the proles do what they are told.

[Elegiac]

I understand that its a shitty argument coming from the bakery. My point is, it shouldn't even be an argument, they have the right to serve or not serve anyone they want, that is law, and yet apparently, if your one of the select groups that the Left cares aobut, you force those laws not to exist for you.

Sorry, should we -not- be advertising the unethical and discriminatory things businesses do?

Never said they didn't, I imagine they do, since the majority of people are moderates, going back to my original point of the Left being far more Orwellian than the Right, the proles do what they are told.

If you'd actually read Orwell you'd understand that it wasn't a matter of left or right.

[Deleted]

Sorry, should we -not- be advertising the unethical and discriminatory things businesses do?

Do you think its acceptable for a bakery not serving a gay couple to make national news?

If you'd actually read Orwell you'd understand that it wasn't a matter of left or right.

I have never said that the book was left or right, i'm talking about which party is acting more Orwellian, you understood that point 3 posts ago, why don't you understand it now?

[Elegiac]

Do you think its acceptable for a bakery not serving a gay couple to make national news?

Even if I said 'no', your point would be what.

I have never said that the book was left or right, i'm talking about which party is acting more Orwellian, you understood that point 3 posts ago, why don't you understand it now?

It continues to remain bullshit, primarily.

[Deleted]

Even if I said 'no', your point would be what.

Why was it such a big deal? Just answer that question.

It continues to remain bullshit, primarily.

So the Left isn't more authoritarian than the Right as things stand?

[cubby]

I understand that its a shitty argument coming from the bakery. My point is, it shouldn't even be an argument, they have the right to serve or not serve anyone they want, that is law, and yet apparently, if your one of the select groups that the Left cares aobut, you force those laws not to exist for you.

So they can refuse to serve blacks? Muslims? Are you advocating for that as well? Because that's the slippery slope you enter when you start to discriminate again "one of the select groups that the Left cares about".

[Elegiac]

Why was it such a big deal? Just answer that question.

Because for-profit news media tends to hone in on the most salacious and spectacular stories because they are the most interesting.

So the Left isn't more authoritarian than the Right as things stand?

Considering the left isn't using the force of law, no.