1009 Maw of Souls runs needed to max out Artifact in 7.2

[SpiffyGriffy]

While i haven't read all 25 pages of this thread i haven't seen one person that has made a point regarding the new AP tokens.

Blizzard has specifically stated that current AP tokens will no longer be usable on 7.2 weapons. This would imply that there will be new tokens which could potentially give a higher amount of base AP. The math the OP used was off of 400 AP per token which is the base right now. If that number is different this entire argument would be different.

We don't even have a release date for 7.2 and we don't even have 5 guilds that have cleared mythic NH. I think we should all give some time for some more details to come out. In the meantime i'm pretty positive 99.9% of this thread hasn't even looked at mythic Gul'dan.

[MasterHamster]

This topic is basically casuals (that never went through the AP grinds) telling raiders (that had to go through the AP grinds) that the AP grinds are fine. It's not even a discussion, a debate. It's simply people that were always hateful towards those that had more in the game finally having an outlet for their hatred and laughing their asses off because the situation is no longer favorable for raiders and makes them grind this horrible repetitive dungeon crap, when in the recent past they were able to just raid&relax.

I don't have to go on an olympic athlete diet- and exercise regiment to say that for 99.99% of people that compete in sports don't need to do the same in order to enjoy their competitions in their brackets. People on the forums who angrily shout having it being mandatory to have maxed artifacts to be "competitive" have completely lost perspective, and a lot of this is due to prior designs in Cata/MoP/WoD I'd say, where getting 100% raid-ready was attainable relatively quickly. Instead of accepting that Artifact Power gain is designed to be omnipresent throughout Legion, they stare themselves blind on how a few more percentages make or break some wipe they found on Warcraftlogs.

So no, this is not about LFR-raiders telling actual hardcore raiders something they haven't gone through is fine. This is at its core a topic of MMO game design, and people setting realistic goals. People who chose to go all-out to cap their artfacts and hated doing it have only their own decisions to blame. If anyone gets benched because they're not 54, or have certain legendaries, etc, find a guild that doesn't set ridiculously high expectations. This has been, and always will be, a factor in high end raiding. If a guild force you to reroll classes for progression fights, or play a spec you don't enjoy, or force you to pay 100k to gbank every week cuz reasons, and you don't want to do that, you find another guild. Same thing, just different scenarios.

But I'm not completely ignorant. I know very well how uncapped systems like this can cause unhealthy player behaviour. WoW dipped into the realms of raid-and-logout and that changed a lot when it comes to player mentality. To the point where a lot of people feel angry that they are not 100% optimal every time a new raid is released. Gone are the times when players knew and accepted that it'll take a lot of time and dedication to waltz through a new raid. Now a new raid is released and people get pissed if they don't clear it in one lockout because of high gear requirements.

[shonist]

im have 30 or 31 artifact levels on several weapons. Never felt forced to farm anything. why do you?

you ppl having a mental condition or im missing something about the game? maybe blizzard is paying ppl to max their artifacts??

[angrys13]

The biggest lol will be when we have to sacrifice our weapon at the end of the expac for a shitty green/blue when leveling again.

Unless this is the last expac. Which would be kinda nice tbh.

[shonist]

It's bad game design to require 1000 dungeons to get to the highest competitve level.

its requires more than 1000 dungeon. im pretty sure you are really bad at the game, and you will be after 1000 dungeons. So trust me, you will neve reach highest competitive level. You can slow down now that you know what's reality.

[Eleccybubb]

The biggest lol will be when we have to sacrifice our weapon at the end of the expac for a shitty green/blue when leveling again.

Unless this is the last expac. Which would be kinda nice tbh.

Why would it be the last?

[shonist]

Why would it be the last?

why not? they could add patchs till Patch 999.9999 inside legion.

[Eleccybubb]

why not? they could add patchs till Patch 999.9999 inside legion.

Well there's the Void Lords to deal with, Azshara, South Seas and what's stopping them from creating entirely new lore?

[Temp name]

im have 30 or 31 artifact levels on several weapons. Never felt forced to farm anything. why do you?

you ppl having a mental condition or im missing something about the game? maybe blizzard is paying ppl to max their artifacts??

That's because 30-31 traits takes like 3½ seconds to do. It costs 1 759 430 AP to get 30, 546k more to get 31.
Whereas getting to 54 takes 65 256 330.

And no, Blizzard aren't paying anyone to max their artifacts, but people have this thing called "taste" that means they enjoy certain things. For quite a lot of people on these forums, one of those things they enjoy is mythic raiding. To be able to raid mythic you need to put a certain amount of care into your character, which means maxing out your artifact. If you don't do that, you will be bared for entering, and as a result you have to do something unenjoyable and boring to do what you enjoy.

[Relapses]

Players: Blizzard, your game requires way too much grinding to be relevant in Mythic raiding. Could you perhaps tone it back a bit?

Blizzard: Good news! We're making it three times more grindy in 7.2! That's what you wanted, right? Right? Guys? Hello...?

Blizzard: Fuck. This always happens.

Blizzard:

[Toastyame]

Simply gate artifact level with mythic raiding and have it unlock levels on a week by week basis.

People can spam to their hearts content and have ridiculous levels for maw spam, solo content or Heroics, but not Mythic. That way, epeening 60/hour week players can still #humblebrag but a majority of mythic raiding guilds that feel inclined to max their characters before content won't have to worry about doing 1000 maws in a couple weeks time.

That or weekly cap like conquest; if you don't cap, it gets extended to the next week.

Also they very well may not make live/be the precursor for now until the end of the expansion, which we can easily assume will be a little over a years worth of content. At that, you have 3 maw of souls worth of AP a day at max AK, doesn't include dailies, caches or other forms like raiding/heroic dungeons, etc.

Although shitty to look at in full, I doubt this will have a meaningful impact on progression unless there's another threshold, such as paragon points, that was crucial for guilds progressing on helya and guarm.

[Saverem]

Won't change the way I play the game in any way. I do like 1 or 2 M+s a week and sit on like 45 traits in my main weapon. I don't farm now and I won't farm in 7.2.

I'm in a semi-casual 9/10H guild and enjoy playing the game this way. They don't ask me to gear up raid ready alts nor ask me to sit because this fight requires X class over Y class.

I feel bad for you top .5% guilds who feel the need to grind until you're maxed out. I can see most of you getting burned out. Best suggestion I can give is you should just realize that this is a game created as a form of enjoyment and not a way of life. The sooner you realize this, the sooner you'll stop stressing out and start enjoying the game for what it is, a game.

[Deleted]

But I'm not completely ignorant. I know very well how uncapped systems like this can cause unhealthy player behaviour. WoW dipped into the realms of raid-and-logout and that changed a lot when it comes to player mentality. To the point where a lot of people feel angry that they are not 100% optimal every time a new raid is released. Gone are the times when players knew and accepted that it'll take a lot of time and dedication to waltz through a new raid. Now a new raid is released and people get pissed if they don't clear it in one lockout because of high gear requirements.

....And then get angry that some world first dudes beat it in 1 or 2 weeks and make fun of blizzard not being able to design/balance encounters properly.

This is the internet, people suck. A lot.

[Tonkaden]

its requires more than 1000 dungeon. im pretty sure you are really bad at the game, and you will be after 1000 dungeons. So trust me, you will neve reach highest competitive level. You can slow down now that you know what's reality.

HOLY English batman!

[Kokolums]

You arent forced to do 1k runs unless you are competing for world first kills. If you arent copeting for that then you wait for raid bosses to be nerfed so that they can be killed with less than max traits.

[Rankstar]

The no-lifers in this thread complaining about "competing" are fucking hilarious. Who do you people think you are? What are you competing for? Prestige? LOL. You're wasting just as much time as the person sniffing flowers and you're just as much of a nobody as the guy sniffing flowers.

Why are you bashing people who enjoy competing with friends and/or rival guilds? Assuming from your comments you are new to wow.

In previous expansions, before artifact traits, gear and skill were the only element separating good players from bad ones, and with a raid tier lasting over 1 year it eventually came down to just skill in playing your class.

With the introduction of a seemingly endless grind for AP, RNG titanforging and casino legendaries, the sense of competition among friends and rival guilds is diminished dramatically as performance is skewed. The game becomes more about luck and whether you are employed or have 24/7 to grind AP, so forgive us 'no-lifers' if we dont enjoy the type of 'end-game' legion is compared to previous expansions.

[Teri]

Tbh, at this rate, I think this artifact upgrade might even be "final" for the expansion as it's rather huge, 4th relic slot, many new or higher traits, at this amount of AP it's just crazy.

Of course 7.3 and beyond will still continue dropping relics with higher itemlevels, but I doubt this "1000 mythic dungeon" amount is simply meant for 7.2 towards 7.3.

Now they really gotta be careful how they handle the next expansion, when so much time/effort is put in the weapon, they need to find a way to transition into the 8.0 without being like "hey look here's your weapon again, it's purple now, and will be replaced at level 115 by a 1200 itemlevel (example) dungeon blue"

[shaunika123]

If you use the term "forced", then you already lost any argument you were trying to make.
Do blizzard set entry requirements based on your artifact progression ?
No, players do.

except you're wrong

if you have to do content type a in order to be competitive content b, then you are indeed forced to do it.

anyone who raids at top tier level is pmuch forced to grind their AP
why do you think exorsus made an entire point about how problematic it is?

"fair" raid progress should not come at the cost of a 1000 5man dungeons which arent even the slightest bit of challenge to you

a certain amount of grinding is fine, needed even. excessive amounts of it is just a lose lose to everyone, cutting edge guilds will feel they're forced so they'll grind their asses off, top tier(ie top 100-200) guilds will feel they're forced and try to grind but fail due to lack of time, and casual guilds cant even come close. this creates such a huge artificial rift between guilds that didnt exist before, and it's not a good thing.
even vanilla didnt require the amount of sheer grind that cutting edge raiding does now.

we had quite a few players good players who've been raiding in our guild on similar skill level just give it up now cos they dont have the time to grind the AP, ofc it was more prevalent early into the tiers (especially the mandatory 35pt grind for helya which lost us like 5-6people in 2 weeks) but it's still a thing.


yes obviously you can just "not do it" but by that you give up the thing you actually want to do.
i mean if there's a gun to your head you can choose to die and not give up your wallet, but that doesnt mean you're not forced. (exaggerated paralel i know, but you get the point)

but i dont think blizzard wants the numbers to be that high, they've shown they can compromise with AP with the BOA AK stuff, i think the number will be cut down to more closely reflect the time it takes to go 0-54 now with 25 AK

You arent forced to do 1k runs unless you are competing for world first kills. If you arent copeting for that then you wait for raid bosses to be nerfed so that they can be killed with less than max traits.

we're world ~110-120 (think 116 atm) and progressing on the now nerfed star augur and it still pmuch requires 54 traits from everyone
it's not just world first that requires it, they just require it even more on more characters.

[Banquetto]

You're missing the point of what I said--the type of people I'm deriding are the ones who think they're better than non-raiders(hint: they're not) and I'm pointing out how them "competing" is just as pointless as the dude sniffinh flowers. You don't get anything out of competing unless you're doing pvp tourneys, essentially.

I would have compared them to marathon runners. Those guys don't compete with each other, not really. They're just competing against the environment to see who can finish a course first.

[zaino]

The no-lifers in this thread complaining about "competing" are fucking hilarious. Who do you people think you are? What are you competing for? Prestige? LOL. You're wasting just as much time as the person sniffing flowers and you're just as much of a nobody as the guy sniffing flowers.

who the fuck are you to say how people enjoy their hobbies