Why pvp feels so bad this expansion

[mmowin]

I explain what's wrong with pvp right now.

[FelPlague]

there is a thread for self promotion


"why pvp feels so bad this expansion"
FelPlague explains whats wrong with pvp right now

not enough battle pets

my opinion is as good as yours so
and atleast im not self promoting my youtube channel :P

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...enshots-Videos
post this there, not here, this is a thread, not a place ot share youtube videos


if you want to explain why pvp is bad this expansion, explain it, dont just "this is why"then link a video

[mmowin]

yup i did no about that forum

[JoshuaNLG]

"i cannot beat a healer 1vs1" you do just that in the fucking video. You shouldn't be able to mongo spam a healer down doing a pve rotation, 1 dps should never be able to solo a healer because if that were to be the case, healers are irrelevant, if 1 dps can solo them, two will just destroy one.

WOW is no longer the game where a healer can sit in the back row behind their team and be relatively safe, there's too many ways for classes to be able to close the gap or just blow up someone from range.

PvP is rarely about skill now, it's more "Who's playing FOTM and who has their burst cooldowns up", you can't outplay someone anymore, the tools to do so have been pruned from the game.

[Stormspellz]

its never been easy to mongo pve a healer down and you complain "can't beat a healer 1v1" and like um, you um ramble um on um and um its um annoying um.

[Seneca]

"i cannot beat a healer 1vs1" you do just that in the fucking video. You shouldn't be able to mongo spam a healer down doing a pve rotation, 1 dps should never be able to solo a healer because if that were to be the case, healers are irrelevant, if 1 dps can solo them, two will just destroy one.

Generally speaking I think that a dps vs healer fight, to be balanced in a healthy way, should eventually end and both the parts should have the same chance at winning it.

I miss a lot, for example, wotlk dpriest vs frostmage duels (open world, no pillar hugging, otherwise rip) where, theoretically, the frostmage had to end the duel as fast as possible otherwise the dpriest would outlast him.

I mean it was not perfect but way way better than what we have now.

By a healer pov, winning wise, there are 2 cases:
h1) the healer is able to move the dps healthbar, even through outplaying, so, overall, the dps of the healer is higher than the hps of the dps (healthy);
h2) the healer doesn't move his healthbar at all, even given 30 minutes (unhealthy).

By a dps pov, winning wise, there are 4 cases:
d1) the healer heals himself enough to survive and doesn't waste enough mana, so it might be an endless fight (unhealthy);
d2) the healer heals himself enough to survive but waste enough mana and eventually goes oom, so the fight eventually ends (healthy);
d3) the healer heals himself enough but if outplayed often can't keep himself up (healthy);
d4) the healer get bursted or straight 100-0ed, so the fight ends extremely soon (unhealthy).


H1, D2 and D3 should be what might happen in healer vs dps fights.

I know that 1v1s are not meant to be balanced, in fact, I am not talking about duels, but about that impact that dps vs healer fights might have and actually have in 2s, 3s and bgs too.

Right now, healers get trained to death and explode in a few seconds or healers get ignored.

Why we are in this situation?
The healer can't kill the dps because every dps is a selfhealer basically (dps have too many heals);
The dps can burst the healer thanks to stunlocks (too many stackable, hard ccs or psuedo hard ccs);
The dps has to ignore the healer becuase, if the healer is able to heal, meaning he cannot be/is not cc'ed, the hps is enormous (healer not cc'ed = enormous hps).

So I think the solutions would be a mix of reducing self-heals, stackable hard ccs, and maybe healer output or ways to heal (which might be too focused on hots, or on burst healing, etc.).

WOW is no longer the game where a healer can sit in the back row behind their team and be relatively safe, there's too many ways for classes to be able to close the gap or just blow up someone from range.

PvP is rarely about skill now, it's more "Who's playing FOTM and who has their burst cooldowns up", you can't outplay someone anymore, the tools to do so have been pruned from the game.

I agree 100%.

[Krusza]

PvP is rarely about skill now, it's more "Who's playing FOTM and who has their burst cooldowns up", you can't outplay someone anymore, the tools to do so have been pruned from the game.

This is that all needs to be said on the topic, no need for some video that looks like it was recorded in 2005 bringing up null points about soloing healers and "buff/nerf cycles" that have existed for 10 years.

It's the exact reason that is at the core of why PvP is bad, until that is addressed nothing else they do/focus on will make PvP any better.

[Professor Expert]

Didn't watch video yet but will say that healers have been overcompensated for, esp priests. Once again healers are far too durable in pvp and require too much effort to take down. Incidentally, healers were actually well balanced prior to the tweaks they made for 7.1.5 (more HP for all, net DPS cut across the board).

[mmowin]

I don't get why all the hate. Basically, it's my opinion. I personally don't like pvp this expansion because they've completely removed all progression, and the constant nerfs and buffs are just flat out annoying especially when you've finished grinding up your artifact weapon. Just ask any DH, arms warrior or frost DK, to name a few of the classes, how annoying the constant nerfs and buffs can be.

[Hexme]

Didn't watch video yet but will say that healers have been overcompensated for, esp priests. Once again healers are far too durable in pvp and require too much effort to take down. Incidentally, healers were actually well balanced prior to the tweaks they made for 7.1.5 (more HP for all, net DPS cut across the board).

Its funny cause they had to give into the constant healer QQ saying that they were useless (lol try to be a tank in pvp then they can cry) cause they "were dying". It's like this every damn expansion since wrath and it's getting old, honestly I'd rather have no healers in pvp cause it's always who has the better healers or who has healers that makes or breaks a match, or you know what make healers not immune to oom (seriously it takes a good 5 min team fight to make a healer oom) and they need to be that threat of getting killed like everyone else.

Then you got world of ret/DH/assarogue/mw/rdruid craft,man I'd love to get half the tool kits get these melees have on my enhance shaman.

[Tyrannica]

I don't get why all the hate. Basically, it's my opinion. I personally don't like pvp this expansion because they've completely removed all progression, and the constant nerfs and buffs are just flat out annoying especially when you've finished grinding up your artifact weapon. Just ask any DH, arms warrior or frost DK, to name a few of the classes, how annoying the constant nerfs and buffs can be.

better ask a rogue, we got rather radical nerfs each week by the end of september and mainly in pvp. Frost dk? hardly ever saw the nerfbat until just recently. Just because some arena comps are strong with rogues won't translate in overnerfing stats and survivibility as well as heavy pruning of core abilities as well as the slow was justified for all availible pvp content. Ultimately, i start to hate arenas now, because the comps are the sole reasion of rogue nerfing in anything pvp. Since i play both of these classes since bc/wrath, i want preperation back, slows restored as what the are and the selfhealing talents back of the frost/uh dk.

Actually i do not care for pvp progression anymore, it took some months to see the truth, that PvE is the only true content now where you could progress on in many ways. without pvp gear, and a pvp template that makes sense for all specs, i do not even bother anymore.

Too many restriction in your on your class power is turning People off, too. Why all that pruning and nerfs on stats, stats that are randomized into something that won't ever make sense via stat templates, some selfheals that got gutted to nothing whenever pvp flagged, while they are talents(see sub's soothing darkness Talent)

I rather have even more hp and base resilence than such restrictions that feel like an personal embarassment for each of the specs you play.

[shoegazing]

Why PvP feels so bad this expansion: ability pruning

[Cempa]

1) Way too many melee specs in PvP especilly after the addition of DH (x2 specs) SV (x1 Spec) and making tanks somewhat PvP playable.

2) Over tuning of some spec

3) Havoc

4) Havoc

6) Havoc

[Lazerbrain]

skill pruning in arena and duels and the removal of fun items use in bg's.

[mmowin]

skill pruning in arena and duels and the removal of fun items use in bg's.

Yup. Don't forget.

-No more progression
-No more pvp vendors
-RNG gearing is crap
-Stat templates lol?
-No more experimenting
-boring

[Mafic]

Not being able to gem gear how you like it was the biggest loss of experimentation. That really sinks the fun of PVP along with ability pruning.

[mmowin]

Not being able to gem gear how you like it was the biggest loss of experimentation. That really sinks the fun of PVP along with ability pruning.

Yeah I remember when gemming your gear was really fun back in the day. Deciding whether you should be gemming all strenght or all crit or even remember pvp power gems? :O lol!

[axizelbbb]

Why PvP feels so bad this expansion: ability pruning

no more words, totally agree with you
By the way, menwhile someone is going to buy RGB wins boost like that because of the death of PVP's

[Crruor]

I disagree, to me this expansion feels a lot better then wod ever did. There are some major issues but those arent actually about the pvp itself but more about how you get pvp gear, world pvp and similar. The pvp itself feels fast and fun. The 3v3 focus still makes healers a bit too tanky but otherwise its not bad at all.

If they put in 40% dampening or so as baseline battle fatigue the game would play rather nicely without 2 minutes of nothing happening every arena. I dont really feel the pruning to be honest. Especially with all the honour talents. Granted i dont play a shaman or a mage, but most classes got a big part of their toolkit back or equivalent talents. I really dont like how some classes play (sub rogues, ranged hunters) but i do like the general feel of pvp this expansion. Feels a lot like wrath but without the clunkyness (which took a bit part of the skill away, sure, but still).


Actually, now that i think about it theres actually very little real pruning happening for most classes at least if you compare it to wod.

[Wow]

Poor dk's let us know when they nerf the dmg of all your main abilities and nerf your primary stat 55+%. Talk about some crazy tuning, Anyway.

Pvp feels so bad so this exp because of all the pruning on top of an idiot making all the tuning changes. Then the rng on getting gear, the artifact lvling is terrible and getting worse in 7.2. No control of any stats, no more progression. They just made so many bad changes at once.