Oklahoma : Women who want an abortion face needing the father’s written consent

[Total Crica]

These arguments can have a few words changed, and suddenly, abortion is illegal.

The mental gymnastics people will go through to justify their opinions never cease to amaze me.

Yes, your mental gymnastics are acrobatic, but fail.

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obligated

No one is obligated to continue to use their body for any purpose they no longer consent to.

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And then okay, think about that.. What if neither carries? neither the Man or Woman, but a Tank.

We can then choose to grow babies in tanks and give them to people who want to raise them. That was easy. I love science. I can't wait for science to do that. Eugenics seems fun too. Super babies! I hate my body. I would have loved to be a super baby!

[Tinykong]

Having a baby is a risk of sex, precisely because pregnancy doesn't have to, but can, result in a baby. That's what a risk is: a possibility of something unpleasant occurring.

This would be true if having sex instantly created a baby. You're smart enough to know that it doesn't. Pregnancy results in having a baby, and safe and reliable abortion techniques exist, so having a baby is not a risk of having sex, it's the consequence of choosing to carry a pregnancy to term.

The counter argument to a financial "abortion," which I've repeated several times now, is that unlike an abortion, which ends or reduces a potential financial burden, a financial "abortion" simply shifts that burden to the taxpayers.

No, it shifts the responsibility to the mother, who is choosing to have a baby she can't afford. That isn't the father's fault, it's the mother's fault for not having an abortion or giving the baby up for adoption to a person or persons that can afford and want to raise it, of which there are plenty.

Abortion facilitates and encourages financially responsible outcomes for troublesome or undesirable pregnancies, whereas a financial "abortion" simply absolves men of all sexual responsibility at the expense of the taxpayers. If your next reply to me shows that you are incapable of grasping this point, whether you agree with it or not, then I can be confident that you are simply trying to waste my time, as I have laid out the argument in very clear words and I am quite certain you are capable of understanding it as written.

A financial abortion creates an equal option of choice to both parties. Women are still free to carry their pregnancy to term, or abort it, and men are still free to be willing financial contributors to the child, or not.

Until you understand that the person who is responsible for the child existing is the woman who decides to carry the pregnancy to term, there is nothing to argue and you may as well just go back to whatever echo chamber you came from.

The woman has the decision thrust upon her as the result of an unwanted pregnancy, but both the man and the woman are responsible for that situation existing in the first place as a direct and foreseeable result of their actions. It takes some real cognitive dissonance to act like pregnancy and childbirth are some crazy and unpredictable outcome of sex.

There are two different situations. A pregnancy and a child. The man and the woman are responsible for the pregnancy existing, the woman is responsible for the child existing.

I don't think that's ever going to get through to you.

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Yes, your mental gymnastics are acrobatic, but fail.

Is this your version of a "Nuh-uh, my Dad is cooler than your Dad!" rebuttal?

lol

[Violent]

No one is obligated to continue to use their body for any purpose they no longer consent to.

The fuck you aren't. You don't get to go back on consent once you have given it. Then that's murder.

We can then choose to grow babies in tanks and give them to people who want to raise them. That was easy. I love science. I can't wait for science to do that.

Wtf are you talking about? That wasn't even what was said.

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There are two different situations. A pregnancy and a child. The man and the woman are responsible for the pregnancy existing, the woman is responsible for the child existing.

That is just utterly wrong. In so many ways.

[Total Crica]

You don't get to go back on consent once you have given it.

I never consented to remain pregnant.

[Tinykong]

That is just utterly wrong. In so many ways.

Please, explain how a man is involved in a fetus turning into a baby.

[Total Crica]

That wasn't even what was said.

You said what if tanks were used.

[starlord]

both men and women already have an equal choice regarding supporting children. they may give it up for adoption, pay child support to the other parent, or raise it themselves.

pregnancy is solely a womans (or person possessing female parts at least), bodily function. there is no inequality anymore than men not having to experience periods.

[Total Crica]

both men and women already have an equal choice regarding supporting children.

They don't have an equal choice in having a child. But that is biology.

[Hopebringer]

This would be true if having sex instantly created a baby. You're smart enough to know that it doesn't. Pregnancy results in having a baby, and safe and reliable abortion techniques exist, so having a baby is not a risk of having sex, it's the consequence of choosing to carry a pregnancy to term.



No, it shifts the responsibility to the mother, who is choosing to have a baby she can't afford. That isn't the father's fault, it's the mother's fault for not having an abortion or giving the baby up for adoption to a person or persons that can afford and want to raise it, of which there are plenty.



A financial abortion creates an equal option of choice to both parties. Women are still free to carry their pregnancy to term, or abort it, and men are still free to be willing financial contributors to the child, or not.

Until you understand that the person who is responsible for the child existing is the woman who decides to carry the pregnancy to term, there is nothing to argue and you may as well just go back to whatever echo chamber you came from.



There are two different situations. A pregnancy and a child. The man and the woman are responsible for the pregnancy existing, the woman is responsible for the child existing.

I don't think that's ever going to get through to you.

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Is this your version of a "Nuh-uh, my Dad is cooler than your Dad!" rebuttal?

lol

We are like minded.

[Total Crica]

Is this your version of a "Nuh-uh, my Dad is cooler than your Dad!" rebuttal?

I was only contributing as much as you were. Why contribute more?

[starlord]

They don't have an equal choice in having a child. But that is biology.

it is two seperate issues. trying to conflate them is wrong. child support is about providing for a child. both parents are equally obligated.
carrying a pregnancy to term or not is not even fully in a womans control, (just because you want it doesnt mean it will happen) and its their body that they have a right to.

[Total Crica]

child support is about providing for a child.

That one of them didn't have a choice in NOT having.

I think most men are upset that a woman can have sex and never have a child if she doesn't want to.

But men can't do that. If they have sex they HAVE to have a child even if they don't want one if the woman decides to have it.

That would make me angry too! But I wouldn't take it out on a woman...

It's not her fault she can do something a man can't. She was born that way! I would be at the governments door telling them to fix it!

[starlord]

That one of them didn't have a choice in having. Only the choice to risk having.

if a woman attempts to have an abortion and it fails, did she have a choice?

[Total Crica]

if a woman attempts to have an abortion and it fails, did she have a choice?

They fail? It will stay in there forever??? Oh my god, I am never having sex again!!!!!

[starlord]

They fail? It will stay in there forever??? Oh my god, I am never having sex again!!!!!

yes, its not a garuanteed thing. especially with chemical abortions.
alternatively, there may be other medical reasons why a person cannot abort. or cannot have children even. that is why trying to legislate based on "amount of options available" is dumb. women have an extra option to try to prevent pregnancy that is consistent with their burden in the matter.

but either way its not garaunteed.

[Total Crica]

yes, its not a guaranteed thing. especially with chemical abortions.

It will stay inside me FOR-FREAKING-EVER??? Jesus Christ almighty, our education system sucks balls!

Well, technically, if it stays inside me forever, there still is no child for a man to pay for =P

[Machismo]

It should be assumed that someone who wants something is responsible for it.

But it's about the results of actions. The first and the last are the exact same action, with the same willing participants.

[pateuvasiliu]

It is the women's body.

Gestation takes place inside the women's body,.

She is at risk for life-threatening conditions or sudden death due to eclampsia or amniotic embolism.

It is her body that will bear the stress of pregnancy.

It is her that will possibly bear the brunt of post-partum depression.

It is her that can possibly form a rectovaginal fistula during childbirth which is both painful and unpleasant.

What did the father donate to this whole process? Oh yeah a single sperm and not having to endure any of the aforementioned. I haven't even listed half of the things a woman goes through before and after pregnancy and what else can go wrong.

It's great that you want to champion father's right but they will never ever be equal or supersede a woman's right to bodily autonomy.

You're right, what did the father do? Nothing.

So why pay child support?

[Total Crica]

You're right, what did the father do? Nothing.

So why pay child support?

Because she needs to be paid for all that work, of course! She going to get payment outta that child at 18 too!

Oh, god, my husband's parents actually tried to guilt trip him when he didn't tell them he was getting married.

They told him "how DARE he betray them like that! after all they did for him, and not even include them in his marriage plans!"

Wow, parents are really strange to me... I am glad I don't think I can be one, that way I won't ever be one.

[starlord]

It will stay inside me FOR-FREAKING-EVER??? Jesus Christ almighty, our education system sucks balls!

Well, technically, if it stays inside me forever, there still is no child for a man to pay for =P

it also carries the risk of making a person sterile, as well as dying from complications. so, not something to be considered lightly.