Thoughts on Tanking and Blood going into Legion (LONG)

[gegalfo]

https://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu...0anish+Terrace
https://www.wowprogress.com/guild/us/illidan/Limit

killed him with bdk

[xpire]

limit used 2 bears... don't trust wowprogress to tell you the right specs. Watch their video instead. DT did however use a DK and a monk, and you can see the monk tanking 90% of the time and the DK taunting off doing bitch-duty things such as bonds. Essentially only there to reduce fel scythe damage lol

[Tehr]

https://www.wowprogress.com/guild/eu...0anish+Terrace
https://www.wowprogress.com/guild/us/illidan/Limit

killed him with bdk

limit used 2 bears... don't trust wowprogress to tell you the right specs. Watch their video instead. DT did however use a DK and a monk, and you can see the monk tanking 90% of the time and the DK taunting off doing bitch-duty things such as bonds. Essentially only there to reduce fel scythe damage lol

Just to kind of elaborate on this, if a player swaps specs before they log off, it will display them as that spec on WoWProgress even if they killed the boss as a different spec. Some guilds have used that technique in the past to hide strategies.

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

just got an 880 shivermaws jawbone, man this trinket is glorious

[figuratively]

So, got Acherus Drapes tonight. Don't know how I feel about it. I usually just use wrist and boots, but I swapped in the drape for Star Augur. I think 10 seconds isn't enough to cheese two meteors, as they're 10 seconds apart. Anything else where it's notably good?

[tanksin the enhance shamy]

tbh your probs better off with the boots

[Deleted]

So, got Acherus Drapes tonight. Don't know how I feel about it. I usually just use wrist and boots, but I swapped in the drape for Star Augur. I think 10 seconds isn't enough to cheese two meteors, as they're 10 seconds apart. Anything else where it's notably good?

It had it's uses in EN, like when solo-soaking Elerethe winds, or Cenarius brambles. I can't think of any fight in the NH where it could be worth using.
Aggramar's are a better choice in every scenario.

[Tojara]

Cape can be used on Augur and it can also be used on Botanist to clear spores. Pretty helpful on Mythic when you aren't tanking to just run around and basically get every single spore for 10 seconds every minute. I didn't have them, but I'd likely use them on this boss. Certainly not terrible though. Additionally if you're tanking the elf adds on Tichondrius a well timed AMS (easier with cloak) means they can't apply the arcane debuff at all. With just normal AMS I'll pop it 6-7 seconds before the next bloods come out. That way, hopefully the adds are dead prior to the taunt swap on boss, and the puddle will always drop in the back or somewhere in the middle. Alternative is rushing back to the boss, when the new bloods come out for taunt and having some goop drop near/on the boss.

It's not awful, but you would generally be better with most of the other ones. It has uses though, just a lot of them aren't super important (like you can block the scorpion debuff in the first boss wow!). I still would probably use it on Mythic Botanist P2 if I had it though because of how we do P3 Botanist, not like P1/P2 are dangerous to DKs, and with proper talent setup P3 isn't that difficult either.

[Deleted]

Tier bonus is 25% chance to get 3k versatility (just published 7.2 build). LOL might aswell be 4 set: no bonus. What a joke this spec is and the tank balance is at an alltime low. Since Wrath in my opinion atleast. Basicly I don't expect them to make us good by any standard, but I'm surely not rerolling, dk since wrath.
And there we can see some guardian druid dps buff, nothing for us wow!

[Ikrekot]

So new artifact trait:
Concordance of the Legionfall Your abilities have a chance to trigger Concordance of the Legionfall, increasing your primary stat by (lvl1)2000/(lvl50)11800 for 10 sec. Proc rate 1.37 per minute.

It will increase PRIMARY stat and if I remember our primary stat is mastery xD.

[NightTrain32]

So new artifact trait:
Concordance of the Legionfall Your abilities have a chance to trigger Concordance of the Legionfall, increasing your primary stat by (lvl1)2000/(lvl50)11800 for 10 sec. Proc rate 1.37 per minute.

It will increase PRIMARY stat and if I remember our primary stat is mastery xD.

I thought primary stat meant strength/agility/intellect?

[Ikrekot]

Ok my bad. Is it str or sta?

[Tehr]

Ok my bad. Is it str or sta?

Strength. Stamina is a "Secondary" stat technically iirc.

[Deleted]

Tier bonus is 25% chance to get 3k versatility (just published 7.2 build). LOL might aswell be 4 set: no bonus. What a joke this spec is and the tank balance is at an alltime low. Since Wrath in my opinion atleast. Basicly I don't expect them to make us good by any standard, but I'm surely not rerolling, dk since wrath.
And there we can see some guardian druid dps buff, nothing for us wow!

Thats really disappointing. Even the 2p from Arcway/CoS is better with 3.3k vers and 15 sec.

I hope this is true:

Tier 20 Set Bonuses
The currently-datamined Tier 20 set bonuses are indeed mostly placeholder and untuned. Bear in mind that the current Tier 19 bonuses went through several rounds of revisions, and in many cases redesigns, before they went live as well. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

---

But then reading this makes me sad again, this was so obvious for so long ://

Tanks and Magic Damage
Just pinging this thread to say that we're talking about magic damage reduction for all tanks, including Prot Warriors, and how it compares across the board.

It should be noted that Nighthold is highly unusual as raid tiers go - it ended up with a lot more magical effects for tanks to worry about than most, which has taken a couple of tank abilities that normally qualify as "kind of nice to have" and moved them to "extremely useful on many encounters." Not sure re-designing tank mitigation based on one raid is the right way to go, and we certainly don't want to make sweeping changes to Nighthold encounters at this point.

But like I said, we're talking about it. At the absolute minimum we can keep a better handle on it for Tomb of Sargeras. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

- - - Updated - - -

And i really hope this new paragon trait gets some extra effect for tanks. i mean why should i bother 200 more str as a BDK when nearly all of our mitigation does not scale at all with str? its a super tiny dps increase, yay 8(

[Deleted]

4p is definitely underwhelming. Seems like we have to work our asses off to titanforge to 925 four t19 pieces, and bring them to ToS in 7.2.
I seriously doubt that, despite that blue post, they will change our tier bonus.

Also, the blue post about tank mitigation really shed some light on how dev team handle tank balance: they don't. It was pretty obvius from ptr, and with lots of tank feedback, that due to the nature of the encounters in NH some tanks had a tremendous advantgae over others. They decided to ignore this fact and now we have druids breezing trough most of the encounters, with monks and palas having a easy life basically everywhere, and wars dhs and dks barely making the cut.

[Tojara]

Fine with the concordance thing, be nice if it extended to stamina as well for tanks, but it's whatever. More concerned with the post about warriors surrounding their design philosophy when it comes to magic damage and tanks. Seems to me they are absolutely fine with having balance be terrible for months on end, because they don't want to disrupt progress. That works if all you care about is 5-25 guilds, but what about the rest of the guilds that are unfortunate enough not to have a druid, or a monk. There are, last I checked other tanking classes out there.

What's hilarious is it doesn't really matter what they do. Being happy with tank balance, but claiming that they will be careful when designing encounters in the future doesn't really solve the issue. Anybody here who isn't brain dead knows exactly what happens if you just flip a switch and make it so there is more physical damage, than magic damage? That essentially solves nothing because druids are the best at taking physical damage as well, as evidenced in EN. Realistically they can't just be happy with tank balance because as it stands, druids can't suffer in any type of content because they are the best at basically taking any form of damage.

What annoys me most is they created this expansion under 'class fantasy' and trying to carve out niches for people. You know, I can actually get behind our dog shit mobility and to a very distant point maybe having less CDs. But when another class roles in who traditionally just had a lot of health and took really low physical hits (or just avoided everything), it makes no sense when you also give them a giant heal on massive burst, a massive amount of CDs, mobility (druids always had that, so it's fine) and the best magic DR in the game. That's really where it annoys me, and I'm normally not in the position of just asking people to nerf other tanks because I'm not having fun. But I think at this point it actually hurts the game, at least in raiding. Why bring other tanks if the damage output is balanced around maybe two of the best ones and not the others? I think this is a far bigger issue than healing balance or DPS balance at the moment.

I find it unrealistic to buff every tank to druid level, but I suppose it would be more realistic to nerf them some and bring some of the others up, at least if they are going to maintain this raid design of having extended periods of magic damage, or giant frequent bursts of damage. Mark of ursol is probably the largest offender of what makes druids crazy right now, if that were changed and others were buffed, we would probably see a better playing field. It's sad because my co-tank started as a DH (and my alt was a DH as well) and changed to Druid half way through EN because of how overpowered Druids were. I never really had the option to change when blood was in a much worse state because my only alt was a DH.

I wouldn't put too much weight into the set bonuses because I sincerely hope those are just place holder values. That amount of versatility is basically what you get from the CoS/Arcway 2 piece, which also has a longer duration, and if you check logs has pretty close to 25% up time. If that value goes live, coupled with the 2 piece, it would be incredibly pathetic and just another instance of blood DKs having terrible set bonuses. The ones in NH are fine, but nothing you scream about really wanting to have. I can't remember the last time I thought, holy shit, those set bonuses would be really nice.

[Marrilaife]

Mark of ursol is probably the largest offender of what makes druids crazy right now, if that were changed and others were buffed, we would probably see a better playing field.

The problem is mark of ursol is spammable and has no cd. DH - empower wards has a cd. Warrior - spell reflect has a cd. Paladin - has no special magic mitigation, mitigation works on everything but has maybe 60-70% uptime at best with high haste and no seraphim. DK - AMS has a cd and also is not a % reduction but a fixed amount absorb. Monk - has no special magic mitigation again but stagger is less effective against magic, even with mystic vitality.

But generally the fact mark of ursol has kinda perma uptime, monk can stagger magic damage and paladin can have fairly high uptime on mitigation means the other 3 tank classes are gimped against magic damage.

Also you're right, no idea why druids need to have it all, high hp pool, effective % mitigation against physical and magical damage both, a good self heal, strong cds and the most powerful artifact ability on top of it.

If we want tanks to be balanced either every tank needs a weakness or every tank needs to have tools for every occasion and answer to everything, like a current edition of druid.

Especially it shouldn't be the case tanks that mitigate the most damage have also one of the most powerful self healing tools and the most powerful cooldowns, while the tanks that mitigate baseline the least damage have also weak cooldowns.

[Deleted]

The problem is mark of ursol is spammable and has no cd. DH - empower wards has a cd. Warrior - spell reflect has a cd. Paladin - has no special magic mitigation, mitigation works on everything but has maybe 60-70% uptime at best with high haste and no seraphim. DK - AMS has a cd and also is not a % reduction but a fixed amount absorb. Monk - has no special magic mitigation again but stagger is less effective against magic, even with mystic vitality.

But generally the fact mark of ursol has kinda perma uptime, monk can stagger magic damage and paladin can have fairly high uptime on mitigation means the other 3 tank classes are gimped against magic damage.

Also you're right, no idea why druids need to have it all, high hp pool, effective % mitigation against physical and magical damage both, a good self heal, strong cds and the most powerful artifact ability on top of it.

If we want tanks to be balanced either every tank needs a weakness or every tank needs to have tools for every occasion and answer to everything, like a current edition of druid.

Especially it shouldn't be the case tanks that mitigate the most damage have also one of the most powerful self healing tools and the most powerful cooldowns, while the tanks that mitigate baseline the least damage have also weak cooldowns.

As a blood dk, I kinda feel stupid whenever I remember that guardian mastery is basically a permanent vampiric blood on steroids.

[Tehr]

As a blood dk, I kinda feel stupid whenever I remember that guardian mastery is basically a permanent vampiric blood on steroids.

It's a shittier VB, to be fair.

[Deleted]

So been progressing Mythic Star Augur the past few days. Solo tanking him. I check the logs tonight and the Nightmarish Ichor Trinket that I've been using only procs in the last phase for some reason.