California Secession Advocate Faces Scrutiny Over Where He’s Based: Russia

[alexw]

Utterly vast amounts of US Air, Land and Sea Power is based in California. Along with a disproporate amount of manufacturing facilities for the arms industry.

Oh and money. Unless you're planning on using muskets from the Smithsonian, you'd have to pay for said war. Spoiler Alert: Texas aside, the most conservative states in the country are the poorest, while the most liberal states are the richest.

So good luck with that. More likely California-made Drones from the Boeing Phantom Works plant, or Northrop plant 42 would bomb your house with you in it, while you polished your gun and rambled on a bout how it protects your freedom.

If ever California truly left it would not be only California going. It would be the most prosperous and liberal east and west coast states all leaving at the same time. Under such a scenario the mouth breathers would only be left with the center and deep south, and in any war that resulted they would lose. Military might is dependent on technological and economic might, and the east and west coasts way outclass the rest of the US in terms of technological and economic might.

It would Partysaurus Rex and his fellow travellers who would be doing the dying. Not Californians.

[Fat Mac]

Texas v. White pretty much slammed the door on this, in 1869.

i dont know what any of this means, but damn. call you Skroepedia.

[Mad_Murdock]

I think it's a fundamentally ridiculous question to begin with... but since you asked... the US Civil War (not to mention other successionist movements around in recent times) provides a rather clear cut example.
.

That wasn't a yes or no. In your model, the US becomes fractured and China\Russian march in and take it all is the correct answer. Unless we're counting on NATO to join the Cali side, which I don't see being much help.

[Sesshou]

So that article says a ballot measure is in the works for the 2018 election... do they not understand how this works? There are two ways to start the process to amend the constitution, and neither of them have anything to do with a direct vote by the people.

[Sky High]

LOL says the guy supporting a temper tantrum on a global scale. Waaaaah our 55 electoral votes didn't win the election. We're taking our ball and going home!

55/270. That's a little over 1/5. 1/5 freeby to democratic party and you STILL can't win (against an idiot like Trump) something must be wrong in the blue camp.

Just out of curiosity how many of the 3.9 million republican votes MATTERED in the 2016 California election?

I just said I'd rather Cali stick around.... surely you can mental maths out what my position on this subject REALLY is.

blah blah blah bladdy blah.

about as much as my vote did. since I didn't want to vote for either presidential candidate.

[Theodarzna]

Baba Yaga strikes again.

[Mad_Murdock]

So that article says a ballot measure is in the works for the 2018 election... do they not understand how this works? There are two ways to start the process to amend the constitution, and neither of them have anything to do with a direct vote by the people.

There is nothing wrong with putting this on the state ballot to see if it's what the people want, before pursuing it at the national level. If it fails 90% to 10%, then they know it's not worth even bothering. If it passes, where 90% of the people want to leave, then it's worth pursuing. I think it's a great idea to get some public numbers out there so that everyone can see how the people of Cali feel.

[Independent voter]

There is nothing wrong with putting this on the state ballot to see if it's what the people want, before pursuing it at the national level. If it fails 90% to 10%, then they know it's not worth even bothering. If it passes, where 90% of the people want to leave, then it's worth pursuing. I think it's a great idea to get some public numbers out there so that everyone can see how the people of Cali feel.

If Russia coughs up enough money to get the initiative on the ballot I guess we'll see.

[Skroe]

I actually wish the whole thing would just happen. We'd have a war with California... and legally kill a lot of liberals. Its a win for America no matter how you look at it.

Infracted

Any excuse eh @Kasierith?

As you said clearly it was in jest. Because it was tongue-in-cheek. Because if history is any indication of how the events will play out... it isn't going to be like your (global your) much too older brother finally moving out of the house and into the pool house, it will come to war and war = deaths and California being one of the more liberal states and calexit being a liberal movement would mean... liberal deaths.

But go ahead and infract, I am quite accustomed to the liberal brotherhood of moderators taking actions only against perceived conservative opponents. But prove me wrong... @Skroe just talked about my house being bombed... go ahead dole out some equal treatment.

Except I'm conservative too. The problem is you aren't conservative. You're reactionary.

Killing liberals is fucking insane.

[A dot Ham]

Except I'm conservative too. The problem is you aren't conservative. You're reactionary.

Killing liberals is fucking insane.

Don't label me.

- - - Updated - - -

If Russia coughs up enough money to get the initiative on the ballot I guess we'll see.

But if Russia influences the vote to secede... is it valid?

Good for the goose... good for the gander.

[Corvus]

Maybe the US could return the favour and help further stoke the Siberian independence movement.

[Lynarii]

In all truth, this would be a huge mess if it ever got anywhere close to happening. And if it came down to civil war, I'd really not want to be in California. Because once California starts to break away, all bets are off. People talk about the amount of economic and military power based there... but there's no guarantee any of it would stay there. A lot of companies would likely pull out. Hell, California itself would probably shatter, there are some pretty conservative parts of the state, even if they're in the minority population-wise.

And no sane person wants a civil war in the US. There's almost zero chance it would stay contained to the US alone, most likely it'd become World War 3, and even if it /did/ remain contained, the US civil war was a brutally bloody conflict that left scars on the nation that still exist today. You wouldn't have winners at the end, even the victors would lose a lot.

[Hiricine]

Texas v. White pretty much slammed the door on this, in 1869.

But yes, this is yet another bit of Russian mischief as has been discussed. Boy, I really can't wait for what havoc CIA-backed insurgencies are going to wreck, once Trump's gang of idiots give way to an administration as hostile to Russia as Congress and the National Security establishment is.

Like, can we smash these people in the fucking face and knock out half their teeth already?

Eliminated the ability of a state to secede of its own accord. We haven't seen federal legislation or Constitutoinal Amendments to eject a State.

[Berndorf]

Texas v. White pretty much slammed the door on this, in 1869.

But yes, this is yet another bit of Russian mischief as has been discussed. Boy, I really can't wait for what havoc CIA-backed insurgencies are going to wreck, once Trump's gang of idiots give way to an administration as hostile to Russia as Congress and the National Security establishment is.

Like, can we smash these people in the fucking face and knock out half their teeth already?

Settle down cupcake.

[Independent voter]

Here's what Sherman did to Columbia South Carolina, the birth place of secession.

[Wyrt]

i dont know what any of this means, but damn. call you Skroepedia.

It means the only way to leave the union is to fight your way out or to get the rest of the states to agree to let you leave. Seeing as how vital California is to the union, the latter is basically impossible.

[A dot Ham]

It means the only way to leave the union is to fight your way out or to get the rest of the states to agree to let you leave. Seeing as how vital California is to the union, the latter is basically impossible.

See my problem is that I don't actually believe the latter.

Currently maybe. But it isn't like anything California currently provides could easily (with time) be replaced by someone else. California leaving wouldn't be nearly as devastating to the Union as people make it out to be. It creates opportunities for other States. Which would be great for the multitudes of Californians displaced that don't support Calexit.

[Fat Mac]

oh man I am a WW2 buff. these are some good picks of the devastation that Europe went through

Here's what Sherman did to Columbia South Carolina, the birth place of secession.

awww dammit, nevermind

[infinitemeridian]

See my problem is that I don't actually believe the latter.

Currently maybe. But it isn't like anything California currently provides could easily (with time) be replaced by someone else. California leaving wouldn't be nearly as devastating to the Union as people make it out to be. It creates opportunities for other States. Which would be great for the multitudes of Californians displaced that don't support Calexit.

First off, you sound like a terrible individual. Killing your fellow americans? In jest?

Second off, the reason California is important and powerful is two-fold.

1) They have access to tremendous amounts of natural resources + the sea. There is a reason why port cities thrive.

2) The human capital. California (along with most US cities, which guess what, lean left) attracts the best and brightest. You may not agree with their political opinions, but the point remains. California is not only full of young, smart and motivated people, but also creative people.

If push comes to shove, you really think the US is going to lose California in favor of Kentucky? Hell, any red state (bar Texas)?

[Marakesh]

Realistically, I think if a state voted to secede, we would just let them go. It would be very difficult to motivate people to fight a civil war on the grounds of no separation. Maybe put some legal and political roadblocks in their way to test their resolve, but no war is gonna happen.

Liberals still have a geography problem though. Texas probably could secede if it wanted, but even deep blue California would probably lose its northern half just like Virginia lost its northwest counties back in the day. Its really blue cities and red America. Houston can't secede from Texas, it just wouldn't work, but eastern Oregon and Washington most certainly could split off from Seattle and Portland. In fact, I'd bet alot of contiguous western counties would bolt as well.

Also, how does California get water in this scenario?