I just want to vent

[Charge me Doctor]

Tier has 1 dice. You're guaranteed to get x amount of drops when you kill the boss with the dice rolling on what item drops.

Legendaries have 2 dice. A super low dice to get a drop at all, and then a dice of which one you get.

Legendaries should have of those dice removed, either targeted legendary and RNG drop or predictable drop (a grind/quest chain etc) with RNG legendary.

No, tier also has "2 dice", because it's not about "this item has X chance to drop from a boss, and this item as Y chance to drop from a boss", because you roll for a drop, then you roll for what did get dropped, just like with legendaries, the only difference is where it drops. From daily AND weekly activity, or from ONLY weekly activity.
It would be really nice to get a tier item drop from a boss instead of trash bracer that won't replace my legendary (see what i did here?)

[Flurryfang]

What the fuck are you even talking about? No one cares about your personal dilemma of whatever the fuck you do outside of collecting flowers. This discussion is obviously not aimed at you nor your kind of players.

Next time a thread pops up with a casual scrub crying about not being able to complete Balance of Power inside LFR I'll have my fun.

- - - Updated - - -



Except that legendaries have certain drop chances associated with them.

Dude, we are talking about changing things for everybody, not just top 100 guilds Im just trying to put peoples problems into perspektive You are not forced to deal with the heavy RNG based competion at the top. You can have fun without it by just taking things a little bit slower And what kind of player do you think i am then? You obviously seem to know something about me, since you are completly signing me out of this discussion

Also, follow the rest of dialoge and you will find context to what i am talking about

Edit: And if you want to bring your voice to a discussion about LFR or Balance of Power, you are more then welcome Always in need of more opnions

[Deleted]

the game has always been about rng how dense can you get..

I didn't complete all my tier sets when they were current, i didn't get every trinket or loot drop that i wanted off each boss, there were items that didn't drop at all. rng loot has been a thing since the beginning.

So I was one of the players that got Vial of Shadows very late (an all agility BiS trinket that could drop off any of the first six bosses in Dragon Soul) the boss has to dice roll "shared loot" and then that dice roll be Vial, it was a system that got a lot of complaints, having an item behind so much RNG.

There's a reason we've not seen that system since.

[Charge me Doctor]

If this many people are unhappy with a system you can't, in good conscience sit there and say the system is fine?

How many people exactly? As many as those who quit wow because of flying (being implemented or removed - pick yourself). Extremely vocal forum minority is not proper representation of playerbase.

And yeah, there is "ughhh i didn't get the item i wanted really much, so much kidraaaage" thing involved.

[Flurryfang]

If this many people are unhappy with a system you can't, in good conscience sit there and say the system is fine?

The game has several million players. The amount of voices on this site and the offical forums count only in the hundres, maybe 1000 players, and they are often focused in the very high end of raiding. How can you say, that 1000 shall change the game for the millions.

[Charge me Doctor]

The game has several million players. The amount of voices on this site and the offical forums count only in the hundres, maybe 1000 players, and they are often focused in the very high end of raiding. How can you say, that 1000 shall change the game for the millions.

More like 20. And players from top guilds afaik are fine with this system because they are ready to overcome the odds by, for example, playing 5 hunters via multibox and raiding with the one with best legos.

With being able to target legendaries from the start of the expansion there is always a risk of getting stuck out of pugs/raids for picking "wrong" legendary, aka "kick this mage he picked helm over a belt lol scrub"

[Deleted]

More like 20. And players from top guilds afaik are fine with this system because they are ready to overcome the odds by, for example, playing 5 hunters via multibox and raiding with the one with best legos.

You think that's an acceptable solution and not something a Blizzard should address themselves instead?

PS. This is before we get into top guilds recruiting characters rather than players and piloting them, but hey,

[Deleted]

The game has several million players. The amount of voices on this site and the offical forums count only in the hundres, maybe 1000 players, and they are often focused in the very high end of raiding. How can you say, that 1000 shall change the game for the millions.

Well that's not true either. Just because only hundreds or thousands post here doesn't mean there aren't more people with the same opinion. Just because people don't post on a forum doesn't mean they don't have an opinion. Of course not everyone of the millions of players posts here. You can only listen to the people who make the effort of giving feedback. I think it's fair to say a lot of people dislike this system, but it's probably not the overwhelming majority. But to say it's only 1000 is totally dishonest.

[Charge me Doctor]

You think that's an acceptable solution and not something a Blizzard should address themselves instead?

PS. This is before we get into top guilds recruiting characters rather than players and piloting them, but hey,

I think that people butthurting over dice rolls have to take it to their face, instead of crying about having shitty luck while drowning in high ilvl tier sets.
Blizzard should address the point of alts not getting a first needed legendary out of huge pool of legendaries, which is being addressed. Anyone playing by this time already have 4-8 legendaries on their mains. It's rerolls and alts that are in shit, but this point your main should already have decent pool of legendaries to pick from

[chesder]

the game has always been about rng how dense can you get..

I didn't complete all my tier sets when they were current, i didn't get every trinket or loot drop that i wanted off each boss, there were items that didn't drop at all. rng loot has been a thing since the beginning.

Let me be plain.

RNG is fine.

It makes it feel that much better when the item does drop.

HOWEVER

RNG in WoW has always had one very obvious trait. It's not a question of where it comes from, or what it is. It's only ever been a question of time.

You know where the items drop, you know that you had your chance that time you attempted and it either worked out or didn't.

Legendaries are not on this system. They are a completely new and different RNG. For the first time in WoWs history, important items are not dropped by specific bosses, world mobs or quests. They are not a "oh well I didnt get it this time" item. They are random. Completely. Every bit of content you do has a chance to drop one. Furthermore you can't aim for any of them, that's a second layer of randomness that the game has only now introduced.

Now you can say that the coins to roll for loot has this effect of "you don't know what you're going to get" but you can narrow it down immensely because you can only coin what's available off that enemy.

The issue with this system can be narrowed down to three things.


1. No way to target an item so it is impossible to know if the hours you put in are going to pay off.

2. The items are balanced to be both useful as dps gains and also outside of those areas, but you again can't control which you get. And since the game doesn't separate them based on that usefulness by, for example, making World Quests only ever drop ones that are useful outside of raids, and Raids drop ones useful for them, you can be screwed and have to wait even longer. This is made even worse in the case of some classes, who have "DPS" legendaries that are unusable in every sitation (Shaman bracers are literally a stat stick)

3. Because some legendaries change the way your class works or offer new ways to play, as a player and even moreso as a raider you are less valuable than someone who has them barring playerskill.

All three of these issues were brought up in the ALPHA of Legion. All three of these issues were outright IGNORED.

This issue is going to very literally kill the game if it is not addressed and comparing someone who puts in the minimal effort to others who put in leaps and bounds more is idiotic. By the simple math the players who put in more time doing all this spammable content should in every way have the edge.

It's not the players fault that others want to be more casual and it is nonsense that they should be punished for it.

[Charge me Doctor]

Well that's not true either. Just because only hundreds or thousands post here doesn't mean there aren't more people with the same opinion. Just because people don't post on a forum doesn't mean they don't have an opinion. Of course not everyone of the millions of players posts here. You can only listen to the people who make the effort of giving feedback. I think it's fair to say a lot of people dislike this system, but it's probably not the overwhelming majority. But to say it's only 1000 is totally dishonest.

So, there is 10 who are butthurt over the system, 10 who are fine with the system and mullions are out of conversation and there is no way to know their opinion at this point. How exactly this is an argument then?

[munkeyinorbit]

Then honestly your comments hold no relevence. Whenever a hc raider talks to a mythic raider about legendaries all I see is "lmao why care about legendaries lmao just kill the boss lmao".

All I see is people who think they are mythic raiders have a cry about not getting gear handed to them. Mythic raiders make their own luck and if it doesn't go their way, they find a way to make do and kill the bosses anyway cause skill>gear.

[Hey There Guys its Metro]

Unusable is a pretty silly way to describe those legendaries, but in total I agree. The system is flawed in a couple ways.
Nothing to be upset about though tbh. IMO its much better than the WoD legendary. Just has a couple big flaws they will refine over time.

[Heathy]

snip

because if you could target legendaries ppl would just pick the best ones and be done with it.

legendaries aren't mandatory for progression, encounters are not designed around specific legendaries. if they were it would be a problem.
in the end blizzard did hear the whining because the chance of you ever seeing another dps increasing legendary after this expansion is effectively zero.

they've already said that if they could do it again, or if they do, do a legendary system like this again it'll be utility only.

so if your ever hoping of seeing dps legendaries in future expansions i'd keep that expectation to a minimum. might aswell enjoy spending the rest of this one enjoying any that you do eventually get, because lets face it, everyone WILL EVENTUALLY get the legendary they want. the main problem is a lack of patients.

the thing about past RNG and the amount of times you could run content in 1 year, it was possible to not see items at all, the way the legendary system is designed means that by the final tier you will have a decent selection of legendaries to choose from. it might end up being that some of the ones you thought were useless are actually quite good on certain fights. the main difference with this rng is that you are guaranteed to eventually get them all.

[Deleted]

One of the big problems is M+.

If they buffed the drop chance but removed M+ as a loot source it'd be better.

Any moment of my life I am not logged in farming M+ I am slacking on legendaries. Any other expansion, I've done the boss for the week, ah well, next week.

[munkeyinorbit]

...If I'm better than 95% of people but perform in the 85% cause these fuckers have good luck, it's a fucking flawed system...

In that example, you would be in the 85 percentile bacause of your skill, not 95 percentile because 500 000 players have better luck than you. Stop blaming your gear. Good players find a way to make do. Bad players make excuses.

[Irefusetodie]

I think that people butthurting over dice rolls have to take it to their face, instead of crying about having shitty luck while drowning in high ilvl tier sets.
Blizzard should address the point of alts not getting a first needed legendary out of huge pool of legendaries, which is being addressed. Anyone playing by this time already have 4-8 legendaries on their mains. It's rerolls and alts that are in shit, but this point your main should already have decent pool of legendaries to pick from

I don't get what's so hard to comprehend about this. A Balance Druid with Ekowraith, Prydaz, Sephuz, Lady and the Child, Kil'jaedens, Promise of Elune, and Cinidaria is behind a Balance Druid with just ED, IFE, and OI.

The amount of legendaries you have does not matter. Which ones you have is all that matters.

[Flurryfang]

Well that's not true either. Just because only hundreds or thousands post here doesn't mean there aren't more people with the same opinion. Just because people don't post on a forum doesn't mean they don't have an opinion. Of course not everyone of the millions of players posts here. You can only listen to the people who make the effort of giving feedback. I think it's fair to say a lot of people dislike this system, but it's probably not the overwhelming majority. But to say it's only 1000 is totally dishonest.

I am in no way saying, that the 1000 players are dishonest, not at all. I actually believe, that Blizz should hear the active community out, since it is often this community, that creates things outside of the game But when we are talking about a system, which affects the entire playerbase, just listening to the extreme loud players is proberly not giving a good picture of what the entire playerbase feel.

Like lets take the AP system. Many people on this forum and the offical forum have loud problems with that feature, but when i go play with my casual guild, i hear total praise of the system. The endless grind that somebody calls it, is an endless carrot on a stick for many other people, who often needs a good reason to play and AP is that reason. If you are looking for the viewpoint of the entire playerbase, just looking at forums can often give you a distorted view about how things are. The forums can give you a very good view into how mythic/hardcore heroic players want and do things, but not much for the rest

Again, i want this community to be heard, since they are carring alot of the game, but changing AP and legendaries just because mythic players have a problem with them, is just not a completly way to do things i believe.

[Charge me Doctor]

snip

So, your complaint is about RNG being too wide? Like, when you are fishing for double crit roll BoE cratable items?

You are able to target an item - it's an legendary, you have a list of activities that give you a chance of getting one and improve them if you don't get it. Yes, you can't target one exact legendary item exactly because they are not balanced around each other very well. And you know why? Because blizzard wanted to make them fun and impactful. You can't have fun and balance at the same time (well, you can, but some fluctuations are to be expected). If you allow players to "target" a legendary it will be abundantly overrepresented and it will be impossible to make an adjustments, just look at difference between amount of legendaries in heroic fight 15k from most popular to 800 of the least popular. By being able to "target" legendaries you basically draw a line under 3 legendaries and others don't exist. Then blizzard is forced by players decision to target these three to nerf them into the ground and ask themselves "how much do we buff legendary boots? -dunno just give them perma-on-the-move-cast lol".
It's a recipe for a balancing disaster which will lead to all community complaining instead of just couple of thousands of entitled ones

[Deleted]

I am in no way saying, that the 1000 players are dishonest, not at all. I actually believe, that Blizz should hear the active community out, since it is often this community, that creates things outside of the game But when we are talking about a system, which affects the entire playerbase, just listening to the extreme loud players is proberly not giving a good picture of what the entire playerbase feel.

Like lets take the AP system. Many people on this forum and the offical forum have loud problems with that feature, but when i go play with my casual guild, i hear total praise of the system. The endless grind that somebody calls it, is an endless carrot on a stick for many other people, who often needs a good reason to play and AP is that reason. If you are looking for the viewpoint of the entire playerbase, just looking at forums can often give you a distorted view about how things are. The forums can give you a very good view into how mythic/hardcore heroic players want and do things, but not much for the rest

Again, i want this community to be heard, since they are carring alot of the game, but changing AP and legendaries just because mythic players have a problem with them, is just not a completly way to do things i believe.

The superunlucky just want a little bit of bloody help!!

We have put in so much more effort than those who got it on legendary 1 or 2 and STILL have to put in more effort to perform the same as the lucky.

Anyone who says "just play better and beat them", it's not mathematically possible unless they perform horribly.