Study shows the value of undocumented immigrants

[Mormolyce]

You appeared to be expressing shock at the thought of every illegal immigrant being a criminal, when that is the definition.

I don't think you're following this conversation.

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Immigration = good / ILLEGAL immigration = bad

Because? Stats? Proof? Anything?

[kasuke06]

Really? Because apparently the last FIVE deportations didn't stick, you expect the sixth to be any different?

Insanity it doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.

Would've resulted in fewer deaths.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I'm sorry, but do you not know what the term "illegal immigrant" means? It means someone who is here, illegally. by definition, they are breaking the law.

It's funny how often people get this one wrong.

It's not their PRESENCE that is illegal. There is no particular law for that.

It is when they do not report to border security before entering the US that is against the law. And the funniest part is, that law is a misdemeanor. It's on the same level as a speeding ticket.

And then we have the over half of "illegal" immigrants who came here on a travel or work visa, and just overstayed. They've broken no law, but people still scream "illegal immigrant" and then get triggered when they're corrected to use the correct term, "undocumented migrant", which they are, since they have not explicitly broken any US laws.

[Sunseeker]

Would've resulted in fewer deaths.

No. What you have is the hope that it would have resulted in fewer deaths. You have nothing beyond good wishes and happy feelings. More than likely this guy would have been ignored by local authorities until after he did something.

[Lumocolor]

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Because? Stats? Proof? Anything?

Because.

illegal (ɪˈliːɡəl)
adj
1. forbidden by law; unlawful; illicit
2. unauthorized or prohibited by a code of official or accepted rules
n
a person who has entered or attempted to enter a country illegally
ilˈlegally adv
ˌilleˈgality n

[Cthulhu 2020]

Because? Stats? Proof? Anything?

Feels.

If they don't use our immigration system, then their feels tell them it's wrong.

Another hilarious thing, many of the so-called illegals are here because they were given temporary visas by the immigration department for the duration of their processing, and our immigration system is so broken and backed up, that their temporary visas expire before they hear back from immigration for the first time. Then they apply for another visa, and that visa gets backed up in how broken our immigration system is. Dems of course have continuously tried to fix this broken ass system, and Republicans just scream "WORKING AS INTENDED".

So I'm not even sure why he's saying that legal immigration = good, unless of course he's one of the 0.0001% of conservatives that wants to see our immigration system fixed.

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Because.

illegal (ɪˈliːɡəl)
adj
1. forbidden by law; unlawful; illicit
2. unauthorized or prohibited by a code of official or accepted rules
n
a person who has entered or attempted to enter a country illegally
ilˈlegally adv
ˌilleˈgality n

He's asking for reasons why their presence is bad. As in, a real, practical, applicable reason. Not a word telling you it's bad just because you say it is.

[Mormolyce]

Because.

illegal (ɪˈliːɡəl)
adj
1. forbidden by law; unlawful; illicit
2. unauthorized or prohibited by a code of official or accepted rules
n
a person who has entered or attempted to enter a country illegally
ilˈlegally adv
ˌilleˈgality n

So... tautology is all you have?

[kasuke06]

It's funny how often people get this one wrong.

It's not their PRESENCE that is illegal. There is no particular law for that.

It is when they do not report to border security before entering the US that is against the law. And the funniest part is, that law is a misdemeanor. It's on the same level as a speeding ticket.

And then we have the over half of "illegal" immigrants who came here on a travel or work visa, and just overstayed. They've broken no law, but people still scream "illegal immigrant" and then get triggered when they're corrected to use the correct term, "undocumented migrant", which they are, since they have not explicitly broken any US laws.

You contradict yourself. you say the law they break is considered a misdemeanor, and then claim that no law is broken. so which is it? no law is broken, or the law is broken and must be enforced?

No. What you have is the hope that it would have resulted in fewer deaths. You have nothing beyond good wishes and happy feelings. More than likely this guy would have been ignored by local authorities until after he did something.

huh, almost like that's an incredibly stupid thing to do. Maybe, and just hear me out here, maybe we try and enforce the law? I know that sometimes it's a painstaking endeavor, but we are a nation of laws.

And you're hoping that the illegal immigrants are all going to be perfect model citizens.

[Lumocolor]

So I'm not even sure why he's saying that legal immigration = good, unless of course he's one of the 0.0001% of conservatives that wants to see our immigration system fixed.

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I'm not an American, so i don't care about the politics of American immigration and the decades of neglect. I am a Canadian though and i know that the close to a thousand people who've streamed over the border from the US in the last 2 months don't have papers (work visas or otherwise) to be in Canada and that makes them illegally in Canada. Process them, sniff out their refugee claims and if they are bull then send them back to fill out the paperwork like all the legal immigrants.

[Vash The Stampede]

Businesses want slave wage labour, more at 11.

I'm surprised not many people have caught onto this. The illegal immigration thing is really simple. Either they become legal residents, or we send them back home. And not half ass legal, they have to pay the same taxes and follow the same rules as everyone else does, that includes their wages. They get paid minimum wage, and not a penny less. That includes when and if we switch to $15/h.

This is part of being legal. Business though like to have these workers fly under the legal radar to pay less. I also like the title using "undocumented immigrants" and not "illegal immigrants". Either become a citizen or get out, there's no in between.

[Cthulhu 2020]

You contradict yourself. you say the law they break is considered a misdemeanor, and then claim that no law is broken. so which is it? no law is broken, or the law is broken and must be enforced?

Read carefully. Reading is an important skill.

Overstaying your visa, a visa being what you get when you go through border control/immigration, is something that is no itself illegal in a strict sense of the term. There is no law against it with no punishment like jail time or a fine. You can be deported... if immigration cares enough to do it.

What is illegal is crossing the border without checking in with immigration, but again, it's on the level of a speeding ticket or other minor moving violation. Over half of migrants that are here "without proper documentation" / "illegally" are here on overstayed visas. Which is again, not itself illegal in the proper sense of the term. It's something you "can" be deported for, but rather than just wantonly deporting everyone without a visa, they look at each individual situation, and if the person has roots here and has committed no crimes (many have been here for 20+ years with no proper citizenship, and in that time have had children, have a job they've been at the entire time, etc) and/or immigration processing for their citizenship has been slow as balls, then they haven't been deported.

[Citizen T]

citation on remittances?


also at 10k per pupil, i gander half the people in the state don't cover the cost as well as "other cost are factored in", since most education is funded through property tax and illegals generally don't own their own home. They pay property tax through rent, which they don't get credit for the owner of the rental does.

once you factor in what % of the rent goes towards the home property tax you would have to add that into the 400m they pay.

Don't forget, even thought they are paying wage taxes they will never see a dime back in social security or medicare. you can add that money as a net positive as well.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remittance Over half a trillion (with a T) dollars are sent out of the US as remittances in 2015

Whether or not US citizens require government support is immaterial in this discussion. The purpose of government is to help and protect it's citizens. It's not a feel good organization to provide charity to anyone that wants to walk in the door.

I assume you didn't read the OP very closely because it states that they paid federal, state and local taxes which includes property tax. Do you really think that a study trying to paint illegal immigrants in the best possible light would fail go factor in something so obvious - not to mention that you have no idea what percent of those illegal immigrants actually have bought a home.

While they are not eligible for Social Security, you also don't account for the billions of dollars that are fraudulently paid to them thru the IRS via the child tax credit and EIC. Another issue along these lines is the cost to citizens who have had their Social Security Number stolen (mostly accidentally by illegal immigrants just using made up social security numbers)

[Daelak]

I'm sorry, but do you not know what the term "illegal immigrant" means? It means someone who is here, illegally. by definition, they are breaking the law.

A misdemeanor, not even a class E felony.

[Ethris]

Not only that, but putting a star-of-david-esque approach to this and hunting people down is downright Nazi-like.

especially since every white person in the USA is a descendent of someone that came off a boat. The irony is mind boggling and catastrophic.

Yes. Yes it is.

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A misdemeanor, not even a class E felony.

Yeah, laws are made to be broken, right?

[cuafpr]

yes b.c. exploiting them with super low wages and little to no employee rights is great! Better idea, a reform of the path to citizenship, 6 month forgiveness window to get started on the new path, if you fail that you get the boot, no anchor baby nothing nadda, and zero sympathy form me.

This new path should be open to all, and free to little charge... almost like an Ellis island type deal where you report to, ensure vaccinations are up to date, learn basic English, and history, while getting an assign social security number , prove you have a "skill" that can be used to acquire a job (Job placement programs available) and on the books as a citizen. Another path already sorta exist, enlist in the Military and earn a citizenship via fighting for the country.

[Ishayu]

STOP
MIXING
UP
ILLEGAL
AND
LEGAL
IMMIGRATION.

If the immigrants want to live in the US, that's fine. Why don't they ask us instead of undercutting legal immigrants and natives by not paying their taxes and taking benefits because noone can keep track of them?

The wall is not and never has been about keeping Mexicans out. It's about controlling and documenting who are here so the law can be enforced on them.

[zenkai]

http://www.ctpost.com/local/article/...s-10959317.php



How wonderful that we have great research like this. It's time to recognize that this issue is not black and white!

http://www.fairus.org/publications/t...ates-taxpayers

[kasuke06]

A misdemeanor, not even a class E felony.

and yet still, a broken law. Sorry the law hurt's your feelsies, but we're a nation of LAW, not feelsies.

[jediknight12]

lol this post is funny so on this logic drug dealers and abuser or any crime for that matter should be left alone since they are also feeding the economy for the state they live in.Also no 1 is going to be deporting normal dreamers or none criminal its the bangers and bads getting deported and i seen other reports that show its still a net loss since they are using public aid and education cost among alot of other things.

[Rooflesstoofless]

How about instead of "telling me right now" you provide some evidence?

The evidence is in the namesake.

It's hard to be a law abiding illegal.