Serious Guardian druid nerf in 7.2 :(

[Deleted]

Guardians have their 1-point paragon trait (Ursoc's Bonb) reduced to 6% armor bonus from 10% on PTR. Guardians have "Fortitude of the cenarion circle 1 point new trait giving 12% armor rather than 20% as other tanks have. Let's compare that to a blood DK/warrior/pally- they get 10% armor from their 1-point trait and 20% more from the other one

Bears- 18% armor bonus
Plate tanks- 30% armor bonus.

That's quite substantial. I guess this is Blizzard's intention of brining bears more in line with other tanks.

[Elbob]

armor nerfs are expected pretty much every tier for bears cause they will keep hitting armor cap via iron fur

[Bearshield]

Yes, they are nerfing the armor we get from artifact traits, but like Elbob said, we still have iron fur and Blizz wants to make sure we feel compelled to use it. I'm no numbers person, but I don't think these nerfs are going to cripple us.

[Deleted]

Well.... Blood DKs are going to be kings of passive mitigation then:

20% hp from Fouls Bulwark
30% max hp from Souldrinker (7.2 new trait)
16% reduction from boneshield.

And you keep these 100% of the time.

[Flurryfang]

Well.... Blood DKs are going to be kings of passive mitigation then:

20% hp from Fouls Bulwark
30% max hp from Souldrinker (7.2 new trait)
16% reduction from boneshield.

And you keep these 100% of the time.

HP is not really king atm. Most of the tanks already have enough HP, so it is all about how much dmg reduction you can put on top of your base armor and atm with bears being able to keep 2 stacks of iron fur up nearly all the time, they are still king of dmg reduction. Their heavy set of CDs also help them jump above the curve.

[Tehterokkar]

Well.... Blood DKs are going to be kings of passive mitigation then:

20% hp from Fouls Bulwark
30% max hp from Souldrinker (7.2 new trait)
16% reduction from boneshield.

And you keep these 100% of the time.

Health doesn't have anything to do with mitigation. It only allows you to take more damage before you die and wastes more healer mana. Bears are strong simply because their mastery increases health and healing taken, so them stacking mastery doesn't make healers use more mana to heal them.

[Deleted]

Health doesn't have anything to do with mitigation. It only allows you to take more damage before you die and wastes more healer mana. Bears are strong simply because their mastery increases health and healing taken, so them stacking mastery doesn't make healers use more mana to heal them.

You should know however that versatility is better for survivability on bears than mastery so.... They are left out purely with their armor. (which got SEVERELY nerfed).

Bear in mind too that high ilvl bears with good gear who are already close to armor cap wont get that affected but lower ilvl ones will be severeley punished for the good progress of the high ilvl ones.

[pay928]

Thought your name was familiar. You were the guy that said you were re-rolling to DH because of 7.1.5 changes (I only played DH then http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...-7-1-5-changes). How'd that doomsaying work out, eh? The 100% extra armor as amazingly OP as you thought?

[ReD-EyeD]

Bear survivability nerfs are very much expected. And this looks like not a very serious nerf to me. Well, obviously "nerf" as in comparison to other tanks.

Now bears need actual dps buffs too. I remember they saying something about Mangle doing more damage on ptr.

[Saverem]

Guardians have their 1-point paragon trait (Ursoc's Bonb) reduced to 6% armor bonus from 10% on PTR. Guardians have "Fortitude of the cenarion circle 1 point new trait giving 12% armor rather than 20% as other tanks have. Let's compare that to a blood DK/warrior/pally- they get 10% armor from their 1-point trait and 20% more from the other one

Bears- 18% armor bonus
Plate tanks- 30% armor bonus.

That's quite substantial. I guess this is Blizzard's intention of brining bears more in line with other tanks.

Wow, that sucks. Looks like you guys are going to be dropping from top tanking spec to still top tanking spec because of this change. #feelsbadman

[Tehterokkar]

You should know however that versatility is better for survivability on bears than mastery so.... They are left out purely with their armor. (which got SEVERELY nerfed).

Bear in mind too that high ilvl bears with good gear who are already close to armor cap wont get that affected but lower ilvl ones will be severeley punished for the good progress of the high ilvl ones.

Vers decreases damage taken, Mastery makes you a bigger meat shield without the drawbacks of getting higher health(more mana used from healers).

Both are important, but at the very core, Mastery offers point per point slightly more mitigation(800 rating per 1% health/healing taken vs. 950 rating per 1% dmg reduction).

[Dreyen]

I mean when the bear design idea was brought up in beta I always thought bears would have high hp, high healing received, but would take much more damage than other tanks (if you have +20% hp/heal you should expect 20% more damage taken)

It's not normal to have both the highest hp and mitigation at the same time.

[Lysozyme]

Vers decreases damage taken, Mastery makes you a bigger meat shield without the drawbacks of getting higher health(more mana used from healers).

Both are important, but at the very core, Mastery offers point per point slightly more mitigation(800 rating per 1% health/healing taken vs. 950 rating per 1% dmg reduction).

That's actually not true. See this post for more information.

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...1#post43902666

[Quag]

Its nothing to worry about, with full TOS gear most bears will be close to armour cap anyway with iron fur - its just a scaling issue - bears are currently the strongest tank in pretty much every situation, this change is unlikely to disturb that

[coblade14]

Bear form has a 200% armor modifier thou. Doesn't that make it 18*2=36% vs the 30% of other classes based on your math?

[kurama]

Well it's not a big nerf. The difference between my dk and my druid is really big so the nerfs are expected :/

[Hobbidaggy]

With the gear levels getting higher on the next raid and the stats getting higher also I see this as more a check that the Druid tanks don't become these OP behemoths that are the only tanks people will take (for lack of better words)

[Cuppy]

armor nerfs are expected pretty much every tier for bears cause they will keep hitting armor cap via iron fur

So is it:
Mythicfarmer mega-tank-X-bear now ilvl1000 has armor cap, In 7.2 not capped
ilvl800 casual-bear now doesn't have cap, 7.2 makes him even worse?

[huth]

Bear form has a 200% armor modifier thou. Doesn't that make it 18*2=36% vs the 30% of other classes based on your math?

That's still only an 18% increase in Bear Form, compared to the 30% you have now.
It's *3, as well. Bear increases armor by 200%, not to 200%.(i.e. 100% base + 200% bear = 300% total)

At least you can still manage to get more armor than Moonkins with IF up.

So is it:
Mythicfarmer mega-tank-X-bear now ilvl1000 has armor cap, In 7.2 not capped
ilvl800 casual-bear now doesn't have cap, 7.2 makes him even worse?

They'll also make it easier to get higher level gear. "New" zone has Tanaan/TI style token drops, dungeon base item level gets boosted up etc.

[Polarthief]

HP is not really king atm. Most of the tanks already have enough HP, so it is all about how much dmg reduction you can put on top of your base armor and atm with bears being able to keep 2 stacks of iron fur up nearly all the time, they are still king of dmg reduction. Their heavy set of CDs also help them jump above the curve.

Health is definitely mitigation to Bears (minimum healing of FR is %-based + you can take more damage and heal it back up), Paladins (Light/Hand of the Protector is HP% based), and I think DKs (Death Strike is ridiculously similar to FR). Don't know much about Warrior/Monk though.

That said, I don't see why we can't be given more health or something in return for this... OOH I KNOW, HOW ABOUT MORE THREAT? >_>