Healthcare and tax returns

[Symphonic]

Before I was converted to full time, I was a contractor with no insurance. On the taxes this year, I did mention that I was uninsured for part of the year (roughly 3 months) and I paid my penalty.

To that point, I have a couple friends in the same boat (only partially covered for the year). They did NOT report it to the IRS and got their full refund without question.

But if your friends get randomly audited, they just committed fraud, didn't they?

[araine]

I live in Utah, tell me, where would I do that?



It's like the website is designed against me. In any case, the little questionaire they have on the website to figure out if you deserve an exemption or not, conveniently never asks your employment status.

It is your elected officials workingh against you in Utah thats your problem.

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Well maybe next time have republicans not object half the proposals. ACA in its current form only exists because your country has been unable to put aside private profits and enter the developped world. Hence obamacare, half assed solution that painfully saves a few breadcrumbs for poor people at a greater cost than european hc systems

We know Obamacare is a half ass solution it is romneycare and the heritage foundations idea of healthcare solution so of course it has flaws, only way to truly fix it is with true public healthcare and get rid of the for profit shit once and for all.

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But that's not what it does, even with insurance, fucking healthcare is expensive, it's nothing like single payer. It forces people to buy shitty insurance and for poor people for tax payers to part of the cost. Even if you're poor you still pay out the ass for shit insurance that has high premiums and you probably won't even use if you're young and healthy.

Thats the best you can get when for profit and GREED is the 1st part and most important part in your healthcare system

[Deleted]

Obama destroyed our healthcare, yup, Well at least we agree on something.

How can he destroy something that was more broken than when he got there?

[zenkai]

How can he destroy something that was more broken than when he got there?

You can take something bad and made it worse, which is what the ACA did.

[Deleted]

You can take something bad and made it worse, which is what the ACA did.

repeating that a billion times won't make it true

[belfpala]

The same system that billed me $5100 for a salt water iv to help my type 1 diabetic wife bring her sugars down when she had a cold (messes with your blood sugars and makes it more difficult to balance your sugars).

Yeah, that system. I guess I'm "lucky" that mine was only $800? Again, literally just took my blood pressure and gave me salt water. I had to go to the ER because I collapsed while working. It was about 10 hours in, on my "friday" after working about 100 hours that week. I just remember being on the floor holding a 10" chef knife, wondering how I didn't land on it, then I was in an ambulance, then I was discharged with a clean bill of health.

Yeah, that system. Nobody should have to work to that point for a wage that can't pay for it.

[zenkai]

repeating that a billion times won't make it true

Nope, but the majority of Americans who hate it make it true, look at any poll, the ACA is not favored.

[Deleted]

Nope, but the majority of Americans who hate it make it true, look at any poll, the ACA is not favored.

Yeah polls are so trustworthy suddenly

Would love to know how much of the polled people actually read what's inside it

[zenkai]

Yeah polls are so trustworthy suddenly

Would love to know how much of the polled people actually read what's inside it

Since ACA kicked in (it did in stages) the last 4 years I pay 4x more a year for my insurance, my premiums shot up 300%, my family plan no longer covers my spouse since she can get insurance through her own work, even though hers is shit. ACA forces insurance companies to cover children up to 26 EVEN IF THEY CAN GET INSURANCE AT THEIR JOB. Oh , my wife went to the hospital over a kidney stone that hit me with over a thousand, AFTER insurance. I am sure most of you kids can pull 1000 out of your ass to pay for that, good thing I make good money, couldn't imagine if I was on the average American salary.

Yeah mr France, I guess it's pretty easy to be a keyboard warrior for ACA when you're not footing the bill. lol at fucking non Americans thinking they understand our healthcare system.

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcom...=#77ef186946e3

[petej0]

We know Obamacare is a half ass solution it is romneycare and the heritage foundations idea of healthcare solution so of course it has flaws, only way to truly fix it is with true public healthcare and get rid of the for profit shit once and for all.

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Thats the best you can get when for profit and GREED is the 1st part and most important part in your healthcare system

It doesnt really matter any solution that involves a middle man is going to be more expensive then paying directly, because the middle man has costs they must pay.

Health insurance NEEDS the young and healthy to pay so they cushion the costs for the old and sick. You will never get single payer in this country neither side really wants it. Far too many people in our economy would be affected if you essentially dismantle a large portion of a trillion dollar industry.

[Deleted]

Since ACA kicked in (it did in stages) the last 4 years I pay 4x more a year for my insurance, my premiums shot up 300%, my family plan no longer covers my spouse since she can get insurance through her own work, even though hers is shit. ACA forces insurance companies to cover children up to 26 EVEN IF THEY CAN GET INSURANCE AT THEIR JOB. Oh , my wife went to the hospital over a kidney stone that hit me with over a thousand, AFTER insurance. I am sure most of you kids can pull 1000 out of your ass to pay for that, good thing I make good money, couldn't imagine if I was on the average American salary.

Yeah mr France, I guess it's pretty easy to be a keyboard warrior for ACA when you're not footing the bill. lol at fucking non Americans thinking they understand our healthcare system.

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcom...=#77ef186946e3

Good. You denied poor people medical coverage for years with that fuck-you-got-mine attitude and now people like you are paying for their stupidity and selfishness by having to deal with imperfect legislation.

Also your entire reasoning is based on the premises that HC costs wouldn't have gone up anyways, like they did for tuition fees.

[Zan15]

Since ACA kicked in (it did in stages) the last 4 years I pay 4x more a year for my insurance, my premiums shot up 300%, my family plan no longer covers my spouse since she can get insurance through her own work, even though hers is shit. ACA forces insurance companies to cover children up to 26 EVEN IF THEY CAN GET INSURANCE AT THEIR JOB. Oh , my wife went to the hospital over a kidney stone that hit me with over a thousand, AFTER insurance. I am sure most of you kids can pull 1000 out of your ass to pay for that, good thing I make good money, couldn't imagine if I was on the average American salary.

Yeah mr France, I guess it's pretty easy to be a keyboard warrior for ACA when you're not footing the bill. lol at fucking non Americans thinking they understand our healthcare system.

https://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcom...=#77ef186946e3

That's odd because you appear to have employer based health insurance.
the very article you posted said employer based health insurance saw 11% increases.

but you state you are paying 300% more in the last 4 years.

Now here is the kicker. ACA does almost nothing to your plan, driving the cost increase since its employer based insurance. Sure nowhere near 300%

Most of the reason why you are paying so much is two things.
1. the cost of healthcare.
2. your employer has decided to pass more of the cost on to you. How can you tell? Check your W2. Check it for the last 4 years. Box 12. See what the total cost of your healthcare is, and calculate what your % paid is.

My employer went from paying 86% of the total cost to 59% in the last 4 years. the difference + increased cost all passed on to the employees. Absolutely nothing to do with the ACA just corporations cutting pay and benefits, nothing new



A lot of employers have taken advantage of the ACA as a built in punching bag to increase cost sharing to its employees then blame it on ACA.

On top of that i bet you have worse coverage now then you did 4 year ago. Nothing in the ACA forced them to give you shittier coverage. Nothing forced them to drop your wife.

Oh and ACA does not force your insurance company to cover children even if they can get insurance at another job. Your kid can get the insurance and it would become primary. Hell the ACA does not even force you to sign your kid up, you can kick him off your plan the same way you can kick him out of your house and sign up for single coverage.


seems you might have been too fast on the trigger when talking about understanding our healthcare/health insurance system

[cubby]

But that's not what it does, even with insurance, fucking healthcare is expensive, it's nothing like single payer. It forces people to buy shitty insurance and for poor people for tax payers to part of the cost. Even if you're poor you still pay out the ass for shit insurance that has high premiums and you probably won't even use if you're young and healthy.

But it shouldn't be like that - the U.S. fucked up because of GOP pressures to keep private profit high in the insurance industry. I'm not saying there aren't Dems also beholden to the industry, but the GOP is the main backers of continuing private profits for Health Care.

This guy said it perfectly:

Well maybe next time have republicans not object half the proposals. ACA in its current form only exists because your country has been unable to put aside private profits and enter the developped world. Hence obamacare, half assed solution that painfully saves a few breadcrumbs for poor people at a greater cost than european hc systems

[zenkai]

That's odd because you appear to have employer based health insurance.
the very article you posted said employer based health insurance saw 11% increases.

but you state you are paying 300% more in the last 4 years.

Now here is the kicker. ACA does almost nothing to your plan, driving the cost increase since its employer based insurance. Sure nowhere near 300%

Most of the reason why you are paying so much is two things.
1. the cost of healthcare.
2. your employer has decided to pass more of the cost on to you. How can you tell? Check your W2. Check it for the last 4 years. Box 12. See what the total cost of your healthcare is, and calculate what your % paid is.

My employer went from paying 86% of the total cost to 59% in the last 4 years. the difference + increased cost all passed on to the employees. Absolutely nothing to do with the ACA just corporations cutting pay and benefits, nothing new



A lot of employers have taken advantage of the ACA as a built in punching bag to increase cost sharing to its employees then blame it on ACA.

On top of that i bet you have worse coverage now then you did 4 year ago. Nothing in the ACA forced them to give you shittier coverage. Nothing forced them to drop your wife.

Oh and ACA does not force your insurance company to cover children even if they can get insurance at another job. Your kid can get the insurance and it would become primary. Hell the ACA does not even force you to sign your kid up, you can kick him off your plan the same way you can kick him out of your house and sign up for single coverage.


seems you might have been too fast on the trigger when talking about understanding our healthcare/health insurance system

ACA does almost nothing to your plans? Bullshit, when you have to accept people with pre exiting conditions and children up to the age 26, even though they can get insurance for themselves. That's going to go up.

Also when you are forced to buy insurance that has no competition outside of state, that also makes prices go up.

Fucking economics 101 son.


As far as my employer, again bullshit. Insurgence rep came out, explained what part of the ACA was getting implemented that year and why my premiums were going up. ANNNND my insurance didn't go up the first 4 years I was at my company because any cost increase they absorbed. Not to mention my xgf who worked for Blue Cross and blue shield could explain better than I can why the ACA was fucking us. Wish a fucking Republican had implemented the ACA then at least people like you would be against it.

[Djuntas]

Rofl all these rules. I have never looked at any healthcare shit in my life but order a plastic card with my name on it....How can you guys live with all these rules...Land of the free ? No government ? lol

[Casterbridge]

You can take something bad and made it worse, which is what the ACA did.

Kind of an unfair statement. The ACA as originally designed almost certainly would have been an improvement for everyone but the very wealthy, it certainly wasn't perfect and there was a lot of crap in there but it was a basic step in the right direction, but then it got crippled at the start, so it's kind of disingenuous to say "Look at what a failure the ACA is!" when it was denied resources it was supposed to have access to when it was originally proposed.

The idiocy currently being presented by the republican party is just awful, and is a disaster waiting to happen, I can't even believe that made it past the planning stages.

[Zan15]

ACA does almost nothing to your plans? Bullshit, when you have to accept people with pre exiting conditions and children up to the age 26, even though they can get insurance for themselves. That's going to go up.

Pre-existing is not a driver of your cost increases, this practice was already all but stamped out before ACA. You are talking about minor increases if any at all since most pre-existing conditions end up under reinsurance claims once they hit a dollar threshold. You are looking at a few percents at worst case over 4 years.

They also can't charge you more for pre-existing conditions, before they could. so some people saw a reduction in overall cost, and some plans ended up with reductions in this part of their premiums.


Children up to the age of 26 is optional. If they stay on the plan then the driver of the cost is the employees choice. Blame your fellow employees for your cost increase not ACA. Especially if they have a job and can get their own insurance. They also pay a larger premium for a family plan with children. So that offsets some of the extra cost. Like pre-existing the impact on your cost is a few percents at worst case over 4 years.


Again look at your last 4 W2's. Feel free to post that box number 12 and the amount. Then tell us how much of your paycheck each year went towards your healthcare.

Then look at your deductibles over the last 4 years, how much did they increase?
Then look at your copay over the last 4 years, how much did they increase?
Coinsurance, used to be 90% for a lot of people, did it change over the last 4 years?
Out of pocket max, what did it change over the last 4 years?

All cost sharing passed on to you, increasing your cost even after your premiums are paid.

I still stand by the bet that you are paying a much larger % of your premium then you used to if your premium in fact did to up 300%.

Also when you are forced to buy insurance that has no competition outside of state, that also makes prices go up.

If you are talking about state lines bullshit then you are wrong. Any insurance company can sell insurance in any state. Been like that forever. Crossing state lines does nothing for your cost or competition.

Crossing state lines sounds great.
Oh look Insurance company A in CT can now cross state lines and sell insurance in NJ. But wait, they now have to set up a provider network, sales team, contracting team, service team, etc etc etc. Sometimes it takes over a year to just set up a provider network.

But wait. Insurance company A can and always has been able to just file to get a licence in NJ. oh look they can now cross state lines and sell insurance. Been like that since the 80's (at least)


Insurance companies are not going to magically start popping up in markets they know they are not going to get a return on. If they knew they would make money they would already be there. Fact is many markets have just a few employers that make up the majority of the covered lives in that market. If one insurance company has those few employers they have an instant monopoly. Happens in most markets. No other insurance company is going to enter that market and compete if there is no way they can win those contracts. They will not make money with the population of covered lives that are left to sell too after the massive cost of setting up a network in that market.

As far as my employer, again bullshit. Insurgence rep came out, explained what part of the ACA was getting implemented that year and why my premiums were going up. ANNNND my insurance didn't go up the first 4 years I was at my company because any cost increase they absorbed. Not to mention my xgf who worked for Blue Cross and blue shield could explain better than I can why the ACA was fucking us. Wish a fucking Republican had implemented the ACA then at least people like you would be against it.

Pull out your W2. the proof is there.
Then look at your Deductible, Coinsurance, copay, all the cost sharing for how much has been passed on to you.


"ANNNND my insurance didn't go up the first 4 years I was at my company because any cost increase they absorbed" So you agree then with me? You just proved my point, they absorbed the cost. After that they no longer wanted to absorb the cost and passed it on to you 300%. If it went up that fast then they were making up for all those years they absorbed the increase cost of healthcare
Nothing in the ACA stopped them from absorbing more cost.



BTW i am 101% against the ACA, should have been medicare for all that would eventually morph into a full blow single payer system with financial price controls of the whole industry.

BTW x 2 i have worked in the health insurance industry for over 25 years, multiple large insurance companies, contracting, benefits, financial analysis, benefit structure, premium analysis and underwriting. Its not FUCKING ECONOMICS 101. Its way more complicated then that.
I priced plans i know where the cost are coming from year over year.

Your blame is all in the wrong place, especially with Self Funded Employer based health insurance.

P.S. in what world is a insurance rep going to not say what their customer wants them to say? I've been at benefit roll outs, you say what you are told to say by your customer, its very scripted and biased to tell the story they want you to. Was one of the worst things i had to do.


Of course i don't expect you to believe any of this but the proof is out there




Rates were increasing much faster pre ACA. Pre all these things you speak of. Implementation of these new provisions should have caused it to accelerate, and it didn't

Where are these spikes because of pre-existing, 26 year olds, all the ACA requirements??? Somehow its uniquely expensive for just YOUR COMPANY to offer these additional things?





Look at the deductible cost sharing trend, even pre-aca. Passing more of the cost on to employees




http://www.realclearhealth.com/artic...ts_110255.html

In 2014, an American Health Policy Institute study found that over the next decade, the cost of the ACA to large U.S. employers (10,000 or more employees) will be $4,800 to $5,900 per employee.

10 year cost 5900 or 590 dollars a year split between employee and employers at various %'s.
So a 50/50% split would cost around 25 dollars per month for the implementation of ACA to employer based insurance


More recently, a survey of employers by the International Foundation of Employee Benefit Plans (IFEBP) found the ACA increased actual employer health care costs by an average of 5.8 percent.

Sure nowhere near 300%

Many more studies cited

According to the Centers for Medicare & Medicaid Services, employer-sponsored health benefits will cost $975.6 billion in 2016, or $5,697 per covered life. Direct and indirect ACA provisions likely increased the cost of employer-sponsored health benefits by 5.8 percent in 2016. This means the ACA likely cost employers $56.6 billion in 2016, or $330 per covered life.

330 per covered life. 27 dollars a month split between employee and employer. assume 50/50 and you are looking at 14 dollars a month


All drops in the bucket to what the actual impact of the COST OF HEALTHCARE increases are year over year. You had drug prices nationally increase 9% last year.

http://fortune.com/2016/06/21/health-care-rising-costs/

Here’s Why You’ll Likely Pay More for Your Employer-Sponsored Health Insurance

Health care costs are expected to grow 6.5% through next year.
The medical cost trend for 2017 is projected to remain the same year-over-year, according to a new study from PwC's Health Research Institute.
"The bad news is health care does cost employers a lot of money and the idea that they are just going to absorb a 6.5% increase when CPI is at a much lower rate is unlikely, so they will continue to cost shift."



Things you should worry about:

Drugs- Example of massive cost increases


http://www.healthsystemtracker.org/c...drug-spending/

Drugs 11% 2014, 8% 2015, 6% 2016.


Cost sharing shift




Deductible shifts



http://www.healthsystemtracker.org/i...dly-over-time/