Lack of Diversity in TV and Movies Could Push Teens to Join ISIS

[Hiricine]

The problem we have here is that many people generally don't understand Jihadi mentality. They believe that it is a failure of a society to welcome in new people that causes them to feel alienated and strike back at that society, when in reality it is violent beliefs and scorn for the culture that a person brought with them or was impressed upon them by their parents etc, that causes them to become Jihadists.

If you blame the host country for problems, then there is no problem taking in more people from that area. If the problem is with those people, then you can't. So its a reverse-engineered logic for a faulty premise.

[turboether]

Sounds like an irrational enough excuse for a crazy person. A person so inclined will use any excuse or none to rationalise their terrible actions. Calling for more or less representation is merely pandering. It is a vain hope that madmen will be soothed into normalcy by a celebrity with the correct nationality.

[Endus]

Not sure where I was rambling. Two fairly straightforward points. You should stand against racism and you should stand against terrorist threats in order to get on TV.

And neither of those were made. Those are the straw men you're creating, because you'd rather have a boogeyman to attack than deal with what was actually said.

All that he said was that entertainment media is one of the sources that people, largely subconsciously, use to develop their own perceptions as to what they can feasibly achieve. Stereotypes, left to themselves, are self-reinforcing; when you do not see other options, people unconsciously feel as if they can't break out of that stereotype. Either because it's "their lot", or because of some sense that society won't accept them trying to break out of that role. It gets internalized at a deep, subconscious level. Same goes for women; they're as capable of becoming doctors as men are, but we still see fewer female doctors, and in nursing, that gender variance is reversed. And that trend exists because of a history of exactly that kind of representation bias in media. We've moved past that today, but it still existed just a couple decades ago.

If all you show is Muslims in stereotypical roles, it will tend to create an exclusionary society that attempts to reinforce those roles. Not entirely, and not solely, because entertainment media isn't the only thing that exists. But it's an important factor, and there's really no reason to reinforce those discriminatory stereotypes in the first place. There's no reason the new doctor in a show can't be a black Muslim, or a transgender woman, or whatever. You don't have to default to "white dude".

[Dextroden]

I guess that means people from the South should stop being portrayed as gun toting rednecks, right?

Something something prejudice turns to violence.

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And neither of those were made. Those are the straw men you're creating, because you'd rather have a boogeyman to attack than deal with what was actually said.

I don't know. Saying do this or you'll get terrorism sounds like a threat.

[Endus]

I guess that means people from the South should stop being portrayed as gun toting rednecks, right?

You do realize that there are plenty of non-redneck Southerners on television and in movies, right?

I don't know. Saying do this or you'll get terrorism sounds like a threat.

Hardly.

It's like saying "if you don't clean up those spilled donuts, that's how you get ants." That's not a threat, it's a recognition of how ants work.

[Dextroden]

Hardly.

It's like saying "if you don't clean up that spilled sugar, that's how you get ants." That's not a threat, it's a recognition of how ants work.

So, the 9/11 attacks were caused by a TV show? San Bernardino? Pulse?

[Endus]

So, the 9/11 attacks were caused by a TV show? San Bernardino? Pulse?

Is there a reason you're refusing to acknowledge how enculturation works?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enculturation

And no, lack of representation doesn't cause those attacks. But it creates an antagonistic and unsupportive society that creates a circumstance where those attacks might occur.

That's made more complex because we're dealing with a global society, so it isn't any one country that's responsible for any of this. But that's no excuse to contribute to the problem.

[Dextroden]

You do realize that there are plenty of non-redneck Southerners on television and in movies, right?



Hardly.

It's like saying "if you don't clean up those spilled donuts, that's how you get ants." That's not a threat, it's a recognition of how ants work.

And there are plenty of non-terrorists middle easterners and Muslims on tv. No clue why terrorism would be a threat.

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Is there a reason you're refusing to acknowledge how enculturation works?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enculturation

And no, lack of representation doesn't cause those attacks. But it creates an antagonistic and unsupportive society that creates a circumstance where those attacks might occur. And they did. Which sort of proves the point.

Congratulations. You have successfully argued against calling people racists. Look how much hate it created.

[Endus]

And there are plenty of non-terrorists middle easterners and Muslims on tv. No clue why terrorism would be a threat.

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Congratulations. You have successfully argued against calling people racists. Look how much hate it created.

At this point, you're so aggressively ignoring every point I'm making that I'm pretty sure you're just trolling me, so I'm not going to continue down that road.

[Dextroden]

At this point, you're so aggressively ignoring every point I'm making that I'm pretty sure you're just trolling me, so I'm not going to continue down that road.

Endus. You think everyone that disagrees with you is trolling.

[Graeham]

Utterly ridiculous. No, if people go and join a terrorist organisation then the responsibility is 100% on their shoulders unless they are kidnapped and forced into it. The idea that there isn't 'enough diversity' is pretty dumb in this day and age too. More often than not both mainstream and niche TV shows and movies have 'diverse' casts, at least to some extent. Diversity for the sake of diversity has always been a slippery slope though and it's becoming increasing apparent that it's only done so that out of touch actors and directors can pat each other on the back and tell each other how progressive they are.

[Slant]

There are not a lot of Taoists, or Pagans on TV... should we worry about them as well? Fanatical Taoism could be fun... become balanced or else!

I would totally go extremist Taoist. Except that would mean I'd have to side with something and I would be unbalanced.

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What's the difference beween what this dude says and Hollywood wrecking brains about hiring more black, latinos and other minority ethnicities? :P

[Arenis]

Bar the cringy introduction, he does have a fair-ish point:

‘In the mind of an IS recruit he is the next James Bond. Everybody thinks in their own head they are doing the right thing.

‘Where is the counter-narrative to the terrorists, telling these kids they can be heroes here?’

“People are looking for the message that they belong, that they are part of something, that they are seen and heard and that despite, or perhaps because of, their experience, they are valued. They want to feel represented. In that task, we have failed.”

It is part of the bigger problem that Arabs (Muslims too) are not very represented in everyday Western culture/media.Tthere are (for example) very few movies/series where this group can be seen as the heroes of the story; yet they are very often portrayed as the enemies. It will undoubtedly have an effect on the minds of (especially) younger people of said group and it would be unwise to simply dismiss the case he is making.

[Kraenen]

And neither of those were made. Those are the straw men you're creating, because you'd rather have a boogeyman to attack than deal with what was actually said.

Not a straw man. If you can't see past skin color and identify with someone from another race, you're a racist. It's just more obvious when a white person doesn't like black tv shows. It's easier to call him a racist. If muslims can't identify with other caucasian people then that's their bias and bigotry holding them back.

The options are that either we purposely include people who are a minority or there will be more radical Islamism spreading. That doesn't seem like a peaceful deal to me. It's not even true on an empirical level, given that "there's nothing wrong with Islam" and that there's no connection between Islam and being radical extremist.

All that he said was that entertainment media is one of the sources that people, largely subconsciously, use to develop their own perceptions as to what they can feasibly achieve. Stereotypes, left to themselves, are self-reinforcing; when you do not see other options, people unconsciously feel as if they can't break out of that stereotype. Either because it's "their lot", or because of some sense that society won't accept them trying to break out of that role. It gets internalized at a deep, subconscious level. Same goes for women; they're as capable of becoming doctors as men are, but we still see fewer female doctors, and in nursing, that gender variance is reversed. And that trend exists because of a history of exactly that kind of representation bias in media. We've moved past that today, but it still existed just a couple decades ago.

Don't bring up gender discussions as a mod.

Point is, not including someone isn't the same as excluding someone. If you simply don't have a Shiite person on your TV show, that does not in any way mean you've excluded them or you've stereotyped them. And what about the non-Shiites? It'll be endless. Do you think all those white people watchin Fresh Prince of Belair felt uncomfortable that they weren't represented? No! They loved that show. They could identify with Will past his skin color.

If all you show is Muslims in stereotypical roles, it will tend to create an exclusionary society that attempts to reinforce those roles. Not entirely, and not solely, because entertainment media isn't the only thing that exists. But it's an important factor, and there's really no reason to reinforce those discriminatory stereotypes in the first place. There's no reason the new doctor in a show can't be a black Muslim, or a transgender woman, or whatever. You don't have to default to "white dude".

I'm not sure what this "white dude" is. There's plenty of diversity amongst people who are white. You could be a white muslim, btw, so I'm not sure why you put that out there as a contradiction to a Muslim.

You have no evidence of the bolded/underlined assertion. This is a complete straw man on your part. No one has done an actual study on whether muslims are 100% portrayed as bad evil terrorists. This is nothing more than political bias informing your beliefs.

There's also no real reason the new doctor in a show should be a black muslim, or transgender woman. That would not be representative of its audience, so there's more reason to show something that would be representative. Heck, I'm not sure if there really are good white representation in media (think of Family Guy or Simpsons - dumb, ugly, lazy white men are supposedly the norm, but you don't complain even though white men get shit for that, and it affects their relationships and social clout in a negative way). But this whole notion that media needs to be representative or that it's somehow democratic is just arbitrary, anti-artistic nonsense.

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Is there a reason you're refusing to acknowledge how enculturation works?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enculturation

And no, lack of representation doesn't cause those attacks. But it creates an antagonistic and unsupportive society that creates a circumstance where those attacks might occur.

That's made more complex because we're dealing with a global society, so it isn't any one country that's responsible for any of this. But that's no excuse to contribute to the problem.

There's literally nothing wrong with Islam, so those attacks had nothing to do with Muslims being antagonized.

[Jimmy Woods]

Right-Wingers: We need to do something to counter ISIS propaganda videos that are recruiting people to go fight for them.
Hollywood actor: We should show more Muslims on TV to show youths that they are part of western culture.
Right-Wingers: WHAT AN IDIOT!! (HEAD IN SAND)

You guys are wrong bitching and whining about this guy. Even right-wingers yesterday on Fox News said he has a point.

[Jingoism]

They join ISIS and get killed. Nothing of value is lost.

[Zecora]

Lack of Diversity in TV and Movies Could Push Teens to Join ISIS

That's a bit of a reach, surely. It's more important what the people on the Telly is saying than what colour they happen to be, no?

[ro9ue]

Dude was great in The Night Of. But not sure why if someone is good at X suddenly their opinion gets a platform for Y. I always wonder why CNN would be discussing a very nuanced social problem and be like "here to discuss... NBA superstar Charles Barkley."

I just don't understand it. If I want philosophical enlightenment I'll go to someone like Sam Harris, not Meryl Streep.

[Polyxo]

Obviously he doesn't mean this as a 1 step process. The lack of diversity in entertainment does make it more difficult for one to participate fully in society. When someone gets isolated from the rest of normal society in enough ways that they don't have a path to 'belong', they start looking for belonging elsewhere, and that means fringe groups.

[MasterHamster]

Uh no, it's mostly social alienation and economics. It's freaking embarassing that this is even suggested with a straight face.
Guess what happens if you, to put it bluntly, put a large number of people that originate in very different cultures, fail to integrate them, and they instead find themselves living in more and more segregated areas, rather finding unity in their own cultures and norms while the "majority" culture and population are pushed further and further away, and all you hear are politicians on TV discussing immigration policies over your heads like you were emancipated problems to be solved.

Why do you think Sweden is mass-producing ISIS-sympathizers? We've let failed integration rot and grow for almost 30 years all the while admitting way more people than we could ever hope to integrate in an acceptable rate. I'm frankly surprised we're not seeing even larger numbers of people become radicalized.

Then again, we have areas where children are 'playing ISIS' on school playgrounds, so it's sure gonna be an exciting time as they grow up, most likely remaining in socioeconomically oppressed areas like their parents, and the effects of our 2000-2015 insanity starts to really bear fruit. Sweden's only concern was to be a beacon of solidarity, no long-term plan. Discussing economics and trying to collect data whether or not it was an economic drain or not was 'reducing refugees to numbers on a sheet' and 'inhumane'.

And this muppet suggests radicalization occurs because of a 'lack of representation'? No, a future with no hope leads to radicalization.