Scaling Scaling Scaling. Enough already!

[MiiiMiii]

In every single expansion, we have slowely moved from World of Warcraft to World of Scalecraft. A game where all content is scaled.

In TBC we got "normal and heroic dungeons". In WotLK we got normal and heroic raids (starting from Ulduar). Cata, 10 man and 25 man choice. Cata, normal vs heroic mode. Cata, LFR. "Flex raiding". "Timewalking dungeons". Now we have even scaleable leveling zones, PvP gear scaling and "unlimited scaling" in dungeons. Gear is also being scaled starting with Heirloom gear and now this whole concept of titanforged and warforged gear. Hell, even spells used to not be scaled before, you had ranks. You are a miner on lvl 1? Don't worry, you can mine the Legion ores, we just scale down how much you get from mining it. Want to kill a mob? We scale the HP and dmg of the mob based on how many attacks it.

Even I am starting to have issues thinking of more things that can be scaled, but I am sure Blizz will come up with something. How about Raiding+? Or maybe scale every single leveling zone all the way back to level 1? Let's not give Blizzard any ideas...

Scaling is LAZY. It is trying to feed us the same content multiple times, with slight changes to HP and DMG, then call it new content. Throw the concept of RPG out the door, we need more scaling! Scaling is, in my opinion the worst mistake this game has done ever. It sucks the life out of this game. It just gets worse and worse, without any indication that it will stop.

I hate every single thing scaling has brought to this game.

[potis]

Your rant doesnt even make sense, like literally no fucking sense.

Every "scaling" has a reason for existing especially the raiding ones.

The reason is called, "Business profit", create 4 raiding difficulties, keep a bigger group of people happy, get money off people

I will just quickly answer professions "OH YEAH SO FUN TO WASTE 30 HOURS RUNNING IN OLD AREAS TO MINE OLD USELESS ORE TO LEVEL UP MINING, REALLY INNOVATING 2017 GAMING"

Games grow, they adapt and change, you should do the same.

I could write more things to counter everything you posted without crybaby logic you are using but it can be answered with 1 word.

BUSINESS.

[Pann]

To be honest I like profession scaling and I thought the scaling with the invasions pre-legion was brilliant. With that said I don't particularly like timewalking dungeons and I felt that it completely removed the feeling of becoming more powerful whilst levelling.

[Deleted]

I totally get your point, but i think that scaling (til legion) wasn't a bad idea. It would be pretty nice to see the old regions like kalimdor and eastern kingdoms to be scaled down. i miss leveling and exploring in these zones because nowadays you just rush through them. beginning to talk about legion i do not know where to start - tf, wf, m+, the silly professions - i don't know man.

Coming to an conclusion - i pretty liked the flex raids, heroic raids etc but the m+ system with the scaling and rng in legion is just a pretty bad design. but there are enough posts about this already

[Deleted]

I hope the entire game gets scaling so we can do any zone at any level and get world quests in zones outside the broken isles. Would also make updating older zones more justifiable.
The pros of scaling outweigh the cons.

[xjentai]

Tbh the scaling is what makes this game more fun and friendly than it used to be:
- leveling mining in the past: start with copper in old zones..., now you can start with ore that matters, eventho the drop rate is lower. Still at the end you got all usefull ores.
- Raid+, tbh, i think that will happen sooner then you expect, i believe they will remove lfr, normal, heroic and Mythic and replace by Raiding+. Which i wouldnt mind, gradiants for everybody's playstyle.
- flex raid: if only we had this way sooner, my old guild wouldnt have crashed. Because, or we had to few people, or to many. Those that arent invited look for other guilds that raid, or they are bored and dont play anymore.
- scaling zones: i love it. Every zone stays relevant (to a extend), i really also like they will "buff" the strength of the world in 7.2.
- timewalking: again a fun concept imo. i do my 5 runs i need to do, and i do enjoy em.

Playing games for me is used to pass time, having fun, playing something in fantasy world and in some cases see how good i am versus others (pushing myself to be beter). And scaling is not lazy, it gives layers of playstyle. If you dont care for mythics, you dont have to do em.

The only thing i agree on, is titanforge. And the reason i have for that, is that i entered heroic nighthold, with beter/same gear from Mythic+. making gear irrelevant for me. Which is a shame. I prefered like in the past, than i made a list of drops i wanted (seen as a BIS list) and try to work at that. Now you can get an aswsome drop in nighthold, where you waited weeks for it to drop. To be replayed with a lucky proc in M+.
At lower ilvl's titanforge is fun, at higher i prefered raids would be > ilvl then procs from M+.

anyway, its all personal. People play differently, or expect a different output/input of the game.

[Lochton]

...AAAAAAAAAAAAnd people asked for scaling to keep every zone relevant while levelling and give you freedom where to go. It is these extreme ends of the spectrum that makes it impossible to please everyone.

Maybe you want to consider applying as a game developer? Or at least give your feedback on the Blizzard forum...which this is not ^^

Yup, I have to agree with you on that, det (Never sure if I should write your name with a lower or upper cased 'd')

[solidhammer]

Coudent you find more important bullshit to whine ? Lol and scaling is good thing.

[Kagdar]

Scaling is LAZY. It is trying to feed us the same content multiple times, with slight changes to HP and DMG, then call it new content. Throw the concept of RPG out the door, we need more scaling!

Different difficulties isn't "new content" it's content designed to appeal to a different audience. At least they put different mechanics in different difficulties.
a Mythic+ dungeon isn't really the same when the affixes are different, you don't run the dungeon the same way. Same for raids, Mythic raid encounters aren't played the same way you do the LFR/Normal/Heroic raid.

And since you think it's not real RPG, i'd just say that considering almost all RPGs are based on Dungeon & Dragon, the concept of scaling is not a new concept in WoW. If your D&D Game Master decide you fight against orcs during the entire story you will encounter the same ocrs them being lvl 1 or 10, but their HP and DMG will be boosted, and the gear you get will have better stats.
There's even a little chart you can follow yo tell you how you should power up your enemies/drops.

A lvl 1 warrior does a similar damage % on an enemy that a warrior lvl 80. They might have more HP, you do more damage to the fight is roughly the same length. If it's not, you are either under/overgeared.

I really like the current scaling mechanics in WoW, it means i can do whatever i want whenever i want and i don't feel out of place. Have you tried going back to older content on a top lvl character and do the quests? It's not even fun, the quests are so boring.

The only part i don't like about Legion is the professions, can they could have created more useless professions? except alch and gc ofcource, those are always the only ones that actually are woth anything....

[deniter]

Scaling is just another cheap way to try to fix the game they broke in Cata. WoW is no longer an MMO, it's only barely an RPG and Blizz is doing their best to get rid of that genre as well. They are heading at multiplayer first person action game; pretty much like Diablo in 3D.

All the people defending level scaling don't really know what they want, or want to play a totally different game than mmorpg, and i would go even further and say Blizzard have no clue what they want to do with WoW. They keep adding popular features from other games and genres hoping that some of their players will stay and play.

The best thing that could ever happen to World of Warcraft is WoW 2 that is built from a ground up by a new design team.

[Deleted]

Ahhhh, the millennials... where entitlement only costs 13 bucks a month...

Sure, Blizzard could easily get rid of scaling and introduce new content (raids, dungeons, continents, pvp stuff) every 4 weeks. Would you be willing to pay 200 bucks a month for it? Would you be pissed that you cannot finish one thing because the next already comes out after the top 10 guilds worldwide cleared the current one? Would you cry either about new content not giving better gear or about gear becoming useless 4 weeks after you received it?

List goes on.

[MiiiMiii]

Your rant doesnt even make sense, like literally no fucking sense.

Every "scaling" has a reason for existing especially the raiding ones.

The reason is called, "Business profit", create 4 raiding difficulties, keep a bigger group of people happy, get money off people

I will just quickly answer professions "OH YEAH SO FUN TO WASTE 30 HOURS RUNNING IN OLD AREAS TO MINE OLD USELESS ORE TO LEVEL UP MINING, REALLY INNOVATING 2017 GAMING"

Games grow, they adapt and change, you should do the same.

I could write more things to counter everything you posted without crybaby logic you are using but it can be answered with 1 word.

BUSINESS.

Business? You mean how their sub numbers has dropped more and more until they were too embarresed to show them anymore?

You say the game has "grown". Based on what? Sub numbers? Not every change done to a game is positive.

4 raid difficulties does not make people more happy in the long run. People do LFR, bored to death, then they feel like they have defeated all the content in the game. You think they suddenly get motivated to do Mythic raiding because their LFR experience was so epic? You think they want to do the same bosses all over again with slightly higher scaled hp, dmg and ilvl drops?

[Deleted]

Could you let this thread die?

It's cringy. I don't know what you are trying to discuss about. It feels like you found something you want to rant about.

- - - Updated - - -

Business? You mean how their sub numbers has dropped more and more until they were too embarresed to show them anymore?

You say the game has "grown". Based on what? Sub numbers? Not every change done to a game is positive.

4 raid difficulties does not make people more happy in the long run. People do LFR, bored to death, then they feel like they have defeated all the content in the game. You think they suddenly get motivated to do Mythic raiding because their LFR experience was so epic? You think they want to do the same bosses all over again with slightly higher scaled hp, dmg and ilvl drops?

LFR exsists BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE USING IT. If the playerbase was like in TBC days, they would remove it. Instead of blaming Blizz, go blame casuals like yourself.

Use your fucking head.

[MiiiMiii]

Ahhhh, the millennials... where entitlement only costs 13 bucks a month...

Sure, Blizzard could easily get rid of scaling and introduce new content (raids, dungeons, continents, pvp stuff) every 4 weeks. Would you be willing to pay 200 bucks a month for it? Would you be pissed that you cannot finish one thing because the next already comes out after the top 10 guilds worldwide cleared the current one? Would you cry either about new content not giving better gear or about gear becoming useless 4 weeks after you received it?

List goes on.

Why would it cost 200 dollars a month? And why would I need new content every 4 weeks?

No I would not be pissed if a new raid tier came out before I cleared the current one, that is exactly the point. It would mean I had more content to do for many months forward. No catch up mechanics, just raid progression, 1 at a time. No raids would then be obsulete.

[Rafoel]

Games grow, they adapt and change, you should do the same.

This is literally the stupidest argument I have seen for a month here.

"Games change to adapt to the playerbase."
"Therefore, as a player, you should change as well to adapt to the game".

Really?

[MiiiMiii]

LFR exsists BECAUSE PEOPLE ARE USING IT. If the playerbase was like in TBC days, they would remove it. Instead of blaming Blizz, go blame casuals like yourself.

Use your fucking head.

Of course people are using it. Why would they not? It lets you get way easier and better gear than most other content. You think people would refuse to get easy gear out of principal?

[Amerissis]

The pros of scaling outweigh the cons.

To you. Not to me. I would quit if I couldn't turn it off. I play to become stronger, not to get slaughtered by the same boar at level 1 and level 110, because he somehow got just as powerful as I did. It's ok in Legion, because it's a small part of the leveling range, so it might work if the rest of the world was the same, divided in chunks of 10 levels that scale (so 1-10 scale to 10, 10-20 scale to 20, etc.), but otherwise it's not ok.

I also would not enjoy having to travel the whole world (including Outland and Draenor) to get a few WQs done. I like to play the game, not spend my time travelling.

[Deleted]

This is literally the stupidest argument I have seen for a month here.

"Games change to adapt to the playerbase."
"Therefore, as a player, you should change as well to adapt to the game".

Really?

Yep, really. Individual Player =/= Playerbase. If you personally don't like something, that's your thing. It wouldn't be there if the majority of players (i.e., playerbase) didn't like it.

[huth]

To you. Not to me.

Both of which are totally irrelevant. What matters is whether it does to Blizzard.

[Deleted]

I hope the entire game gets scaling so we can do any zone at any level and get world quests in zones outside the broken isles. Would also make updating older zones more justifiable.
The pros of scaling outweigh the cons.

There is no need to revive older zones. I also would not want to be robbed of the possibility of soloing old dungeons and raids and farming old materials faster.

Too much scaling makes progression pointless. We might just as well get rid of character levels entirely and only progress with gear - and this would not be an RPG anymore.