Dear Blizzard, we don´t like diablofied WoW

[Hitei]

i completely agree. Diablo is a grindfest, demon slaying, loot hogging adventure - which for the majority of the games players, wasn't fun in the long term. We all know that most Diablo 3 players do not play it anymore.

does not feel like an MMO at all anymore. it feels like a 3rd person diablo set in the wow universe, for the most part. you go to area X, do one quest, get your reward, then you fly off to the next quest, kill 10-20 of something and so on. makes little sense lorewise too.

It also feels very weird, that you're this "Champion" fighting with just a few main characters, when in fact its an MMORPG, as in massively multiplayer. why set the focus to ONE player, and not set the focus to the guilds / groups of friends and such?

the only part of the game that does that these days is.... the raid instances. and only the raid instances themselves. not the story that unfolds inside there and so on.

I enjoyed your post because all of the stuff you are complaining about is stuff that has been part of wow from day 1.

Vanilla and BC were even bigger grindfests full of people hogging loot (except back then you didn't have personal loot and people would grab items with stats not particularly meant for their class because it was a DPS upgrade, or grab leather pieces from leather-wearing classes when they could wear mail, or mail from mail classes when they could wear plate, etc, etc.). All that world quests did was randomize dailies to not be the same 5-25 quests every single day.

The game has always been go to area X do quests (except in Vanilla this meant either kill things, kill things and loot things off them, or loot things off the ground) and then mount up and go to the next quest and repeat. It frequently made very little sense or was arbitrary, vague busy work like "we need supplies but for some reason aren't getting them from the large city next door so go kill wild animals".

The actual storyline was always handled in raids. Pre Wrath, you didn't even really deal much with the main story, because you were busy doing random hero work, it just happened behind the scenes or was implied in you doing a raid. You were always the champion sent in with a handful of others to fight big things or the one champion who showed up to a camp and could help, or the one champion who could rescue someone, or put an end to some menace or do whatever needed to be done.

So why is this same gameplay suddenly something you object to?

[Whitedragon]

Welcome Kelen to the MMO champion forums.
I see you did not get enough hate on the official forums, so hopefully we can get you what you want.

1. You don't speak for anyone but your self.
2. Legion is (with its faults) my personal favorite expansion and I have been playing since 28th of Feb 2005.
3. I really like the diablo themed changes they made to the game.
4. I enjoy Diablo - once a year for a week or 2.
5. I disagree with all your points on the official forums but also on this forum.

You're welcome, hope you will find your way back to the official forums.

I disagree with his hate towards blizzards other games, but I also don't particularly like the "Diabloing" of WoW. While some of the additions are ok, others just end up being annoying, and from my point of view if i wanted to play Diablo I would play Diablo I dont needs its systems in WoW.

[Ishayu]

idk, plagerism is illegal and immoral and based on tons of other people in here, lots of people care..

Nope, not seeing it. The only people I see disliking the post are those who actually dislike the contents, typically based on an exclusive we vs inclusive we confusion. (ie they think they are included in "we" and therefore dismisses it out of hand)

Plagiarism is a real thing, but on a forum post? Come on. You gonna take copyright on your carefully crafted plate of spaghetti, too?

[Deleted]

To sum this thread up people are loving the recycled garbage blizzard shovels into their mouth. Rng and grind until your hands are nubs!

Yes it's sad isn't it? It's almost like you could draw a parellel to a real world example of goverments pushing degenerate agendas to brainwashed masses. But hey, it's 2017 so that makes it all right...

[rda]

I agree with the OP.

Long grinds with big RNG aren't enough to carry the game. This failed in D3 and it is failing in Legion.

In WoD their lesson was - "having little content does not work". It was kind of "duh", but here you go, that's why WoD crashed.

In Legion their lesson is going to be - "having little content does not work even if you turn that little content into stupid long grinds and provide small RNG rewards which technically makes these grinds 'worth doing'". It looks like they really thought that putting infinite grinds on everything would work, well, they are going to learn that it doesn't. People aren't idiots, these tricks have been in mobile games since forever, they won't work here (nor do they really work for phone games nowadays).

[Deleted]

I enjoyed your post because all of the stuff you are complaining about is stuff that has been part of wow from day 1.

Vanilla and BC were even bigger grindfests full of people hogging loot

Once again someone without any personal experience or deformed memories. Legion is a bottemless pit, even all xpacks together have so much "necessary" stuff to do like the first 6 months of legion.

Maybe you dont get the point. It doesnt matter what for a player you are (hardest hardcore or fun-casual), you will very quickly learn, especially with the release of 7.2, that you have absolutely no time to rest. Even as a fun-casual, the fun is very fast over if you see what happens if you take it easy or take a break and your fellow bracket mates surpassing you by far. You get simply outclassed. There is no puffer or break to catch up again. You have decided to play the game at a certain level, so you must bring the same engagement all the time to stay.

[Flutterguy]

ITT: Nobody realizes WoW got it's original talent system from Diablo 2. You've been playing Diablo since 2004.

[Nurvus]

I'm beginning to think gaming forums are full of people with multiple personality disorder.

I don't remember the last time I've seen someone just give his or her own opinion here. The imaginary friends always have a say.

[Deleted]

I'm beginning to think gaming forums are full of people with multiple personality disorder.

I don't remember the last time I've seen someone just give his or her own opinion here. The imaginary friends always have a say.

The thread is full of opinions. Look past the main post and read the whole topic from start to end.

[Ishayu]

ITT: Nobody realizes WoW got it's original talent system from Diablo 2. You've been playing Diablo since 2004.

ITT: Someone who thinks that the skill tree and talent trees were even remotely similar systems.

The only thing about them that's similar is you get a point when you level up and there are 3 trees. That's it. Everything else is different. The number of points, what they do, how they work, the classes themselves, what problem they're intended to solve, whether they're passives with a few actives or lots of actives with few passives, the fact that you can respec (well you can do that in D2 now as well, but that was LONG after WoW came out)

[NelsonHorne]

WoW forums. Sure, someone might see it here but if you want a chance that someone from blizz sees it it should probably be on their forums.

[huth]

It kinda makes me scratch my head, too.

If it doesn't match someone's opinion, then obviously they're not a part of the "we". I thought this was a given, but apparently not. "We" would refer to people who are sick of the Diablo loot system, which is a huge portion of the playerbase if ingame discussions, official forums, reddit, and MMO-C are any indication.

Think about how it looks to an outside observer. Using "we" when you're talking about your own opinion is a cheap attempt to make it look like you have a lot of support to people who aren't invested in the discussion.
That the participants know who is and isn't meant with "we" is irrelevant.

Also keep in mind that the fraction of people complaining is always more vocal than the one that is content.

[szandos]

People complain when there's nothing to do and now they complain when there's always something to do, go figure...

Anyway, I disagree with almost everything in your post. I find the progression system in legion being the best so far, finally there's a reason to keep doing content with my friends (who all are still playing btw). I'm not doing bleeding edge content, so I don't mind the rng. Even though I only got one bis legenday (and one crap) I perform well enough for my team and I still look forward to eventually getting a better legendary for my second slot.

PvE is awesome this expansion! PvP on the other hand... Please bring back gear progression in PvP.

[Irian]

Think about how it looks to an outside observer. Using "we" when you're talking about your own opinion is a cheap attempt to make it look like you have a lot of support to people who aren't invested in the discussion.
That the participants know who is and isn't meant with "we" is irrelevant.

Also keep in mind that the fraction of people complaining is always more vocal than the one that is content.

To an extent, but MMO-C in particular seems to jump on people aggressively about it. I've seen enough people displeased by this that using "we" in an assumption that he'll have agreers isn't that big of a stretch.

And that's true to an extent but you can lump in every complaint about bullshit legendaries and ridiculously bad luck in with people who are displeased by the Diablo loot system. And it could just be anecdotal but I'm actually hard pressed to find people who like it, the best I could probably get is a begrudging acceptance.

[IceMan1763]

Think about how it looks to an outside observer. Using "we" when you're talking about your own opinion is a cheap attempt to make it look like you have a lot of support to people who aren't invested in the discussion.
That the participants know who is and isn't meant with "we" is irrelevant.

Also keep in mind that the fraction of people complaining is always more vocal than the one that is content.

Get over yourself. "We" is clearly referring to the large chorus of people who dislike the direction the devs took this game. "We" is not "everyone". Anyone with half a brain knows that but you and your fellow white knights on this forum for some reason feel the need to start a crusade against using "we" where it's completely appropriate and valid.

[Heathy]

I don't mind the loot upgrades, didn't play d3, did play d2 before wow, the loot rolling is what kept the game wanting to be played. trying to get perfect loot rolls was the entire meta.

ppl don't like rng and yet they play games based on rng.

[Deleted]

ppl don't like rng and yet they play games based on rng.

Skinner box and RNG loot systems are something a bit different.
what WoW "was", and for a large part still is, is a Skinner box.

perform task, get reward.
in it's most basic form.

sure, different kinds of loot required different tasks to be completed and a myriad of other interactions.
but in it's most basic form it amounts to, do a task, receive a reward.

that system is inherently fine for most games, though it may seem a bit shallow if attention is drawn to it like this.

another system is the RNG system that has currently, not so subtly, been implemented to a much higher degree than previous installments.

now, granted, there was always a part RNG in WoW, you knew the loot a boss could drop, but he would only drop a couple of items from that loot table, some pieces having a higher chance than others.


the main problem is the large amount of RNG they implemented into the game that's a big turn off to a lot of players.
whilst i'm sure there is probably an equally large portion of the players that like the current system, and undoubtedly the majority player base doesn't mind either way, it is still a pretty massive change compared to the previous systems and incremental changes that came with every mayor patch/expansion.

where back than it was a slow and steady implementation of changes to the system, right now it seems like they dumped everything at once and decide to tweak it along the way, most of which seems to be tweaks to alleviate and at times revert the rampant change the new system brought with it, rather than striving forward.

[Heathy]

I've gotten to the point that i'm happy with my ilvl, i only raid heroic but i'm sitting at 899 equip, farming for titanforge is just pointless at this stage, the way progression works, its just a non issue, either you get the base item, that is perfectly fine, or you get a higher rolled one that will last longer and not be easily replaced.

there isn't much point in going all out farming for full 925 during the first tier, having loot have a small chance at rolling that high is definitely a good motivator for doing content. but there does come a point when you can say 'ill probably get enough loot from raiding now and don't need to farm farm farm for upgrades' i've reached this point, i can play other games now and not feel like i'm falling behind. likewise the old style 1 version of each loot, sometimes that loot didn't drop because it was rare (aka rng just like rolling a high tf) or once you did get it, there wasn't any real reason to see it again, even though you will by design rerun content anyway.

so, today we have reasons to rerun content basically, thats what its there for. but you don't have to farm until all your gear is 925, i feel kinda ready for ToS right now to be fair and its still a month or so away.

rolling sockets and tertiary stats is really rare, the tertiaries aren't that amazing either, i've managed to get 2 items that give me a total of 15% avoidance which is kinda nice, i guess they were meant to be rare and hard to stack. likewise the socket randomness is probably a little too random, its not game breaking though and the increase from one socket is pretty minor.. something to lookout for i guess if you can get lucky and socket roll every piece of gear, same with tertiaries.

the tl:dr is that I don't mind loot being interesting and dynamic, that is what made diablo 2 at least very fun for me. you were farming the same areas over and over again but the loot could always end up being slightly better so it was worth doing it.

[JUNK de LUXE]

I can only agree.. World of Warcraft: RNG was the final nail in the coffin for me.. it cured 12 years of WoW addiction.. so thanks for finally doing something to the game that made me quit for good

[Deleted]

People complain when there's nothing to do and now they complain when there's always something to do, go figure...

maybe they are not same people - i personally hated tanaan jungle and same way i hate world quests, and mythic+ grinding (i liked to do mythic dungeons in wod occasionally, but i really despise them now as forced content). in wod i could play alts and do stuff i missed with main when leveling etc. but now its AP grind, if you want to be focused and get maximum to help your guild in raid, you only can play with your main and in 1 spec - it pretty much makes it less to do than in WoD.