Equal pay law did not close the gender gap

[Wildtree]

Odd how you cut out the rest of that post.

I was addressing the argument of different conditions.
Because the thread is flooded with those false arguments.

[Deleted]

http://www.aauw.org/research/solving-the-equation/

http://www.pnas.org/content/109/41/16474

I'm sorry but the first link doesn't say anything about wage gap between the genders.

The second link is incredibly speculative, I can't see their sources I can't even read the full study at your link.

Got any alternate studies? It's a very interesting concep

Edit: I'd love some counter studies or attempts at disproving the wage gap aswell.

[Endus]

Friendly mod reminder; keep the personal jabs out of the thread. You can discuss things without making personal attacks. This is mostly regarding an exchange from late last evening, not the posts immediately prior to this warning, but I don't want to leave it unaddressed.

[Dryade]

No, the issue is what jobs are most chosen by either gender. If you broke down the most popular jobs by gender, then looked at the average pay for those jobs, you'd find the wage gap. It exists, but it has literally nothing to do with any difference in treatment, just what either gender mostly goes with. The most glaring difference is STEM jobs.

Construction as well. Regardless what most people assume, there is a lot of money to be made in the construction trade. Specifically mechanical/plumbing/electrical/elevators trades. Plus, project management, estimating, etc...

[Deleted]

Construction as well. Regardless what most people assume, there is a lot of money to be made in the construction trade. Specifically mechanical/plumbing/electrical/elevators trades. Plus, project management, estimating, etc...

I can tell you that there is an insane need for engineers and technicians in the estate sector in Sweden, I am a technician currently studying to become an engineer, a study released dec. 2016 said that under a period of 2 years only 47% (average) of the recruitment requirement was met.

Entry level income isn't the highest but there is limitless possibilities in advancement, unfortunately there are only 2 women in my class of 30.

[zorkuus]

No, they actually are not payed the same in most countries.

Now I'll start asking the tough questions:

Let's see the names of the countries and numbers. Give me hard data. Saying it over and over again with nothing to back it up is purely an emotional argument.

I understand that some people feel threatened by women but it seems silly to creat a society around these peoples insecurities.

My boss is a woman. Again... I need hard data, not emotional appeals and strawmen.

Fyi, I graduated from a field dominated by women. Here in Finland we get bonus points on school application tests if the subject in question is dominated by the opposite sex (men and women alike). This has not created much incentive for people to seek professions that are not "traditional" for their gender.

[Aggrophobic]

Now I'll start asking the tough questions:

Let's see the names of the countries and numbers. Give me hard data. Saying it over and over again with nothing to back it up is purely an emotional argument.


My boss is a woman. Again... I need hard data, not emotional appeals and strawmen.

Fyi, I graduated from a field dominated by women. Here in Finland we get bonus points on school application tests if the subject in question is dominated by the opposite sex (men and women alike). This has not created much incentive for people to seek professions that are not "traditional" for their gender.

Sigh...
Here's a few.
I could get you more but you could also try to educate yourself.


http://www3.weforum.org/docs/GGGR2015/cover.pdf
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/gender-e...e/index_en.htm
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ual-pay-report
http://www.aauw.org/research/the-sim...ender-pay-gap/

How your own situation looks is not very important here. Finland has done a much better job than most of the world, however. Good job.

[crewskater]

Sigh...
Here's a few.
I could get you more but you could also try to educate yourself.


http://www3.weforum.org/docs/GGGR2015/cover.pdf
http://ec.europa.eu/justice/gender-e...e/index_en.htm
https://www.theguardian.com/society/...ual-pay-report
http://www.aauw.org/research/the-sim...ender-pay-gap/

How your own situation looks is not very important here. Finland has done a much better job than most of the world, however. Good job.

I think you're misunderstanding the argument. There's an earnings gap, not a wage gap, your articles clearly state this. I couldn't find any examples(sorry didn't read your first one since it was 300+ pages) where they compared a man and a women with the same degree and qualifications and show that one was paid more than the other. All these articles do is takes the earnings and education of men and women and compare it. That's a shit way of comparing things. You should be able to find specific examples of where a male doctor is getting paid more than a female doctor. Can you show any evidence of companies that have different salaries for men and women performing the same job?

The fact is most economists don't fall for the wage gap - http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc1/GenderGap.html

[zorkuus]

http://ec.europa.eu/justice/gender-e...e/index_en.htm

"How is the gender pay gap measured?

At EU level, the gender pay gap is defined as the relative difference in the average gross hourly earnings of women and men within the economy as a whole."

Once again nothing got to do with pay gap for equal work in the same job. Sigh indeed...

Let's make it real simple:

A man gets 1200 € a month for sharpening pencils. A woman gets 1200 € a month for the exact same work.
The man also works overtime = pay gap. This isn't inequality, the woman has simply chosen not to work overtime.

How your own situation looks is not very important here. Finland has done a much better job than most of the world, however. Good job.

Getting paid less for the same work/hours is illegal in most civilized countries (no matter the gender).

[Spiffums]

No one really wants to be equal because then they would lose their "special" standing. If everyone was equal in life and in pay there would be no "because I'm black/gay/female/trans/whatever" defenses.

[Underverse]

I think you're misunderstanding the argument. There's an earnings gap, not a wage gap, your articles clearly state this. I couldn't find any examples(sorry didn't read your first one since it was 300+ pages) where they compared a man and a women with the same degree and qualifications and show that one was paid more than the other. All these articles do is takes the earnings and education of men and women and compare it. That's a shit way of comparing things. You should be able to find specific examples of where a male doctor is getting paid more than a female doctor. Can you show any evidence of companies that have different salaries for men and women performing the same job?

The fact is most economists don't fall for the wage gap - http://www.econlib.org/library/Enc1/GenderGap.html

I mean, even comparing within degree and qualifications doesn't mean that much. You want to compare pay by work, which is hard to quantify unless you're a manager and you see how much work each person is doing day in and day out, and how many hours/days they take off.

[crewskater]

I mean, even comparing within degree and qualifications doesn't mean that much. You want to compare pay by work, which is hard to quantify unless you're a manager and you see how much work each person is doing day in and day out, and how many hours/days they take off.

Very true! It's hard to take their data seriously when there are so many factors it doesn't include like you mentioned.

[Trassk]

No one really wants to be equal because then they would lose their "special" standing. If everyone was equal in life and in pay there would be no "because I'm black/gay/female/trans/whatever" defenses.

And when everyone's super, no one will be.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Is there really a gender gap between men and women doing the same work and same hours in Sweden though...?

I'm a woman and I get the feeling that feminists are just clinging to SOMETHING to feel relevant in a society where women are no longer regarded as second class citizens...

[Arcanimus]

The real reason that an earnings gap exists is because it's more likely for the women to not take overtime, or even take time off due to things like childbirth and the like.
Who knew?

[Azadina]

Construction as well. Regardless what most people assume, there is a lot of money to be made in the construction trade. Specifically mechanical/plumbing/electrical/elevators trades. Plus, project management, estimating, etc...

As a woman, I can't recommend construction to any other woman. It's not good. Why? Because it's seen as strong mens profession, and women will be stuck being assistants/cleaners and whatever is not too important on the job list. As such, they are paid vastly less. Not for the same job, but because they are not given the same job to begin with.

[Aggrophobic]

"How is the gender pay gap measured?

At EU level, the gender pay gap is defined as the relative difference in the average gross hourly earnings of women and men within the economy as a whole."

Once again nothing got to do with pay gap for equal work in the same job. Sigh indeed...

Let's make it real simple:

A man gets 1200 € a month for sharpening pencils. A woman gets 1200 € a month for the exact same work.
The man also works overtime = pay gap. This isn't inequality, the woman has simply chosen not to work overtime.


Getting paid less for the same work/hours is illegal in most civilized countries (no matter the gender).

There is indeed indications that women get less for the same kind of work if you take your time and read but that only one issue.
That jobs that women tend to do are worth less is another, of course.

[Underverse]

There is indeed indications that women get less for the same kind of work if you take your time and read but that only one issue.
That jobs that women tend to do are worth less is another, of course.

I haven't seen any sold evidence suggesting your first assertion to be true. There may be individual studies that make this finding, but when you look at the data on the whole it does not support your argument here.

Your second assertion is true.

[Molis]

The most glaring difference is STEM jobs.

I call BS. My female scientists earn the same pay as my male scientists.

[TStreets]

That jobs that women tend to do are worth less is another, of course.

Is this really an issue though? I mean can't really claim sexism or discrimination when someone makes the conscious decision to take a job that pays less.