Why is America given shit over Nagasaki and Hiroshima?

[baskev]

Allybeboba the Japanes military did kill X innocent people, so what is the magic formula? America can kill X-1 innocent people and still be blameless? Or is it X/10 X/100 X/1000? You tell me.... not that I use X so we do not need to argue about the exact number of victims....

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You know that de-housing was a tactic in the lat war in bombing by the Ally's, intentionally made to kill the civilans that worked in the factorys, and if you blur the line its right to kill civilians who suport the war effort.. you can get away with anything, massacring the peopel of Nanking, it was fair game they did suport the war effort.....

Nope killing and targeting civilians is bad. Did not know that. But still not my point. they could have gone more civilian targets like kyoto but they did not. And this is not about every bullet every side shot at each other. This thread was started about about the use of the A bomb and why people give shit about it towards america.

[falagar112]

Nope killing and targeting civilians is bad. Did not know that. But still not my point. they could have gone more civilian targets like kyoto but they did not. And this is not about every bullet every side shot at each other. This thread was started about about the use of the A bomb and why people give shit about it towards america.

Actually they did but cloud formation prevented them from proper targetting, so they went for the backup target - Nagasaki. With the goal of hitting the Mitsubishi factory. Which they completely missed. So not only did they kill 60k civilians, they also completely missed the target they were after and did 0 damage to the Japanese military. So good :/

[Spectral]

It's not at all, and that wouldn't make it okay even if it were true.

Sure it would - it's pretty easy to justify brutality as a nation fighting a defensive war. What's the correct tradeoff of American conscript lives for Japanese civilian lives if you're the President? It's nowhere near 1:1 from where I sit. Maybe 10:1. Maybe 100:1. Maybe something approaching infinite. A plausible case could be made for just about anything there and I would not like to be the guy that actually has to make the decision.

There's also a game theoretical case for completely disproportionate retaliation. A nation that utterly annihilates its attackers is not a nation to be fucked with.

[Deleted]

Americans being spoon fed propaganda glorifying the use of atomic bombs.

What a wonderful world we live in. At the same time they go ape shit over any country that tries to acquire nuclear weapons. Hypocrits.

For the record, the dropping of atomic bombs on Japan is a gigantic warcrime and the US should be punished for it. People are still dying to this very day, the number of casualties is unfathomable.

[tss]

fighting fire with fire is hypocritical if you want to claim the moral high ground.

Saving hundreds of thousands of lives seems like a pretty good moral high ground to me.

[Shadowferal]

Americans being spoon fed propaganda glorifying the use of atomic bombs.

What a wonderful world we live in. At the same time they go ape shit over any country that tries to acquire nuclear weapons. Hypocrits.

For the record, the dropping of atomic bombs on Japan is a gigantic warcrime and the US should be punished for it. People are still dying to this very day, the number of casualties is unfathomable.

For the record you might want to define "warcrime" as it pertains to WWII.

You have the luxury of making stupid judgments today 70+ years after the fact but were you alive then in the US your opinion would flip-flop.

[Independent voter]

LOS ALAMOS, N.M. — When a captured Nazi U-boat arrived at Portsmouth, N.H., toward the end of World War II, the American public was never told the significance of what was on board.

The German submarine was carrying 1,200 pounds of uranium oxide, ingredients for an atomic bomb, bound for Japan. Two Japanese officers on board were allowed to commit suicide.

Two months later, in the New Mexico desert, the United States detonated the first atomic bomb, a prelude to the obliteration of two Japanese cities.

Unknown to many of the people who built those bombs, not to mention the public, Japan was scrambling to build its own nuclear weapon.



Some of the evidence was the uranium aboard the U-boat that surrendered in the North Atlantic on May 19, 1945, shortly after Adolf Hitler committed suicide on April 30.

http://articles.latimes.com/1997-06-..._1_atomic-bomb

U-234 was carrying twelve passengers, including a German general, four German naval officers, civilian engineers and scientists and two Japanese naval officers. The German personnel included General Ulrich Kessler of the Luftwaffe, who was to take over Luftwaffe liaison duties in Tokyo; Kay Nieschling, a Naval Fleet Judge Advocate who was to rid the German diplomatic corps in Japan of the remnants of the Richard Sorge spy ring; Dr. Heinz Schlicke, a specialist in radar, infra-red, and countermeasures and director of the Naval Test Fields in Kiel (later recruited by the USA in Operation Paperclip); and August Bringewalde, who was in charge of Me 262 production at Messerschmitt.[5]

The Japanese passengers were Lieutenant Commander Hideo Tomonaga of the Imperial Japanese Navy, a naval architect and submarine designer who had come to Germany in 1943 on the Japanese submarine I-29, and Lieutenant Commander Shoji Genzo, an aircraft specialist and former naval attaché.[6]




Captain Johann-Heinrich Fehler aka "Dynamite" probably because of his temper.

Who was Germany going to nuke? Moscow? London? New York?

[Direpenguin]

Americans being spoon fed propaganda glorifying the use of atomic bombs.

What a wonderful world we live in. At the same time they go ape shit over any country that tries to acquire nuclear weapons. Hypocrits.

For the record, the dropping of atomic bombs on Japan is a gigantic warcrime and the US should be punished for it. People are still dying to this very day, the number of casualties is unfathomable.

WWII was one gigantic war crime. Look at the statistics for civilian casualties, in all theaters of the war. Not just the one that fit your biased narratives.

[Tijuana]

I am still to be explained why civilians' life is more sacred than the men that were forced to join the army ( or die/be jailed ).

What difference does it make, between nuking the army camp and the civilians? Sure, the soldiers had a gun and training, but what good is that against a nuke?

Neither stood a chance, neither deserved to get nuked. So I don't see how bombing a town is worse.

If you can't see the difference between killing civilians, and killing military, you probably think terrorism is pretty swell then, huh?

[Kryos]

Because someone does something bad, doesn't give you permission to do the same.

"You stole this money, raped this woman and then murdered this child"
"And? Hitler did worse!"
"Ok, you are right, compared to that you are a good person, you are free to go"

[Deleted]

Who was Germany going to nuke? Moscow? London? New York?

Why are you concerned, was you not in favore to nuke Japan? Or its only a warcrime if sombady do it to us not then we do it to them?

[Deleted]

Saving hundreds of thousands of lives seems like a pretty good moral high ground to me.

Yeah "the end justifies the means" is never used to do immoral things :P.

[Glorious Leader]

The japanese had largely been defeated by the time the bomb was dropped. It was less about ending the war and more about s show of force.

[Independent voter]

The japanese had largely been defeated by the time the bomb was dropped. It was less about ending the war and more about s show of force.

Japan was scrambling to build its own nuclear weapon.

Germany shipped them 100kg of processed uranium.

[omeomorfismo]

About WW2:
- Yes the ally's committed war crimes.
- But they did not target pure civilians all the time. ( yes the bombed city's) but mostly the industrial city's and weapon manufacturing city's.
- Ally's ( except for russia) did not rape, torture, experiment on civilians , russia, japan and germany did!!
- I think the a bombs where horrible. But seeing the destruction ended a war that would have cost way more lives if it did not end when it did. And it caused people to be afraid of them. Witch made it more likely that they would not be used later on.
- and the second one was overkill

so much bullshit that i can smell it from other side of world :|
US raped in germany, for the sake of precision they often group-raped women and girl and then give them some food as "payments".
in some lesser form in italy it happens (where anyway goumiers were a bigger problem) and in japan the rapes continued for years under the occupations and even now there are cases, there is a reason if in okinawa US troops are largely hated....
after the bombs a lot of US doctors come to study the survivors, even using them as cavies after lured them for medicines or using even complacent local doctors.
damn, US maccartism whas so crazy that there was an organization (Kyanon Kikan) that kidnapped and tortured kids to use them as spies...
maybe US wasnt the worst of all, but damn if they were bullshit

[Forogil]

The japanese had largely been defeated by the time the bomb was dropped.

"Largely been" is a longer way of writing "not".

Japan could have surrendered unconditionally before the bombs - or after the first bomb, but they were still planning to fight on - in order to make a deal that allowed them to cling to some conquered territory, and keep the Emperor as an actual ruler (not just as a symbolic head of state that US was ready to accept).

After the two bombs had been dropped and Soviet had attacked Japan it still took six more days before the actual unconditional surrender on August 15th.

We might speculate that it was due to their mentality, incorrect intel, or that their negotiations were flawed - since Japan tried to use Russia as intermediary - believing that Russia was neutral, but none of that is the fault of the US.

[pateuvasiliu]

I have nothing to discuss with you. You need prof help, something that i can't offer. Attacking civilian population is considered a war crime, using wmds is considered a crime against humanity, doing both makes you worse than the scum you find in the toilet pipping.

So you don't have any argument bar '' BUT THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN '' which is sexist, got it.

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If you can't see the difference between killing civilians, and killing military, you probably think terrorism is pretty swell then, huh?

Don't strawman me. The military were forced to join. How are they more guilty?

[Tijuana]

So you don't have any argument bar '' BUT THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN '' which is sexist, got it.

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Don't strawman me. The military were forced to join. How are they more guilty?

Based on the things you are saying, it just seems you lack the basic moral compass to understand the issue. Killing civilians is bad. Every nation on this planet agrees with that. Every single one. I don't think the US should feel some great daily shame over this event, but it's certainly not something we are prideful of. Doing this in modern day warfare, is a war crime. Do you understand that? Do you actually think that if we used nukes against a nation today, that nobody would take issue with that? Like...really, man?

[Logwyn]

If you can't see the difference between killing civilians, and killing military, you probably think terrorism is pretty swell then, huh?

One man's terrorist is another man's patriot. Its always been that way.

[Tijuana]

One man's terrorist is another man's patriot. Its always been that way.

It's freedom fighter. At least get the quote right. =p

But, I was speaking to tactics, not the level of righteousness.