Great news: Employers are allowed to ban burquas!

[Deleted]

Well, they will still be allowed, this ruling isn't actually banning anything, just saying that that an employer can ban them. Honestly i expect very few companies and employers to start banning religious wear though, i don't think this impact will really have much of an impact on anybody, other than a few people across Europe might now have to wear the same as everyone else at the workplace for a few hours a day, not really anything significant.

Well i predict all goverment jobs will get this rule, because goverment and religion should stay apart so i would be surprised if not all these jobs will now get this rule.
Atleast in my country where state and religion needs to stay apart.

[cubby]

Explain to me how is sikh wearing a turban is forcing their religion? If anything the only people I have EVER encounterd trying to force religion were Christians wearing no symbols.

It's a sliding scale. Of course wearing a turban doesn't affect anyone and forces religion on no one. But the rule we're making/affirming/denying is one in which the issue could get out of hand, and cause a legal situation in which every religion is getting a "ruling" on whether their religious paraphenalia is "ok" to wear while at work.

If we make a rule that no religious garb is allowed, problem solved.

Explain to me why someone needs to wear clothes daily to practice a religion? And then explain to me why a business who hires someone should have to put with it as well?

[Mehrunes]

Time to ban jews from wearing yarmulkas

Because the ruling totally kept them a protected class. It's like you're reading what you want to see to fuel your xenophobic paranoia about Europe and not what's actually there.

[Deleted]

Because the ruling totally kept them a protected class. It's like you're reading what you want to see to fuel your xenophobic paranoia about Europe and not what's actually there.

The title of the thread probably contributed to that, if you just read the title you'd think that this gives employers the right to just ban Islamic religious wear, which isn't the case.

[powerstuck]

My understanding of the ruling is you wouldn't be able to do that, unless its explicitly stated in your dress code that religious items of clothing / jewelry are against company dress code.

Well, the ruling does just that...allow companies to implement such rules. So yes, per European court as owner of a company I have now all the rights in the world to do just that. No discrimination. No crosses, no half-moons, no Buddha statues, no incense sticks, no burkas, no scarfs, nothing. Anything merely relied to religion (even tho you might be wearing it for the looks and not religious purposes) will be banned in MY company. Doesn't force others to do it, but gives me the right, if I wish, to do it.

[ro9ue]

I agree with this. Employers in the US can make you hide piercings or wear sleeves to cover tattoos. Tell you not to wear baseball caps. Same thing really.

[Acidbaron]

The title of the thread probably contributed to that, if you just read the title you'd think that this gives employers the right to just ban Islamic religious wear, which isn't the case.

And as i pointed out before there is a nation wide ban on BURQUAS already present in belgium, but people seem to not want to get that.

"Does not compute" i guess.

It's also not based on religious motivation or anything like that but just that you need to be identifiable that's it france also has a nation wide ban on them.

[Xargoth6634]

I approve of this.

[Moratori]

Well, the ruling does just that...allow companies to implement such rules. So yes, per European court as owner of a company I have now all the rights in the world to do just that. No discrimination. No crosses, no half-moons, no Buddha statues, no incense sticks, no burkas, no scarfs, nothing. Anything merely relied to religion (even tho you might be wearing it for the looks and not religious purposes) will be banned in MY company. Doesn't force others to do it, but gives me the right, if I wish, to do it.

There are people who actually have these at work in your country?

[Zandalarian Paladin]

There are people who actually have these at work in your country?

I think a small statue not larger than a fist on the corner of your desk is fine, really. It's your personal area and it's not outrageously obvious. I have never witnessed this, however.

[Deleted]

And as i pointed out before there is a nation wide ban on BURQUAS already present in belgium, but people seem to not want to get that.

"Does not compute" i guess.

It's also not based on religious motivation or anything like that but just that you need to be identifiable that's it france also has a nation wide ban on them.

Thats a whole different topic though

[Very Tired]

Have you seen at least 10 women in you're lifetime wearing a burka? Chances are you haven't unless you went to SA.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-13038095







I can't imagine that to be so much different across other countries.....the only thing that is a symbol of oppression is people trying to oppressing women from wearing the things they like. You don't like the headscarf? That's bad for you but that isn't a symbol of oppression but you using the burka as a justification to ban other pieces of cloths is a sign of oppression.

- - - Updated - - -



Have you seen at least 10 women in you're lifetime wearing a burka? Chances are you haven't unless you went to SA.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-13038095







I can't imagine that to be so much different across other countries.....the only thing that is a symbol of oppression is people trying to oppressing women from wearing the things they like. You don't like the headscarf? That's bad for you but that isn't a symbol of oppression but you using the burka as a justification to ban other pieces of cloths is a sign of oppression.

So to counter that they aren't a symbol of oppression you come up with... the small number of people wearing them in certain countries...

Are you just another one of those posters arguing for the sake of arguing?

[lonely zergling]

Freedom of religion also includes freedom from religion in europe atleast.

Why should we treat religious people different than non religious people at workplace? Allowing kippah/headscarf(christian and muslim) while the companies dress code says "no headwear" for everyone else is discrimination of non religious people.

[DrMcNinja]

I think this ruling is completely fine. In certain fields I can definitely understand why one would ban religious clothing, particularly headwear.

Most of the reactions from people wearing said headwear boils down to "Then I'll just not apply for the job."

And like that, everyone can make their choices without bashing one another.

[nocturnus]

You actually proved my point.
By the way, racism is a form of discrimination.

Yes, but discrimination isn't necessarily racism.

So, what was your point again? Because all I read was this:

As I said in my original comment, if a certain outfit is necessary for the job I understand, other wise it is discrimination. Why not adding people with face tattoo or ugly people into this law? I'm sure an ugly guy or a person with a tattoo on his face would be worst for the business when it comes to a shoe store.

Also if customers are offended by black people, does it mean we have to pass a bill to prevent black people from working in white neighbourhoods?

What obvious logic that I missed hides behind this?

The title of the thread probably contributed to that, if you just read the title you'd think that this gives employers the right to just ban Islamic religious wear, which isn't the case.

Aye, which is why I said the title was misleading.

[melodramocracy]

http://www.independent.ie/world-news...-35529455.html

Employers can ban the burka from workplace, European court rules



Employers can bar staff from wearing the headscarf and other religious symbols in the workplace, Europe's top court has ruled.

The European Court of Justice (ECJ) made the decision on the eve of a Dutch election in which Muslim immigration has been a key issue and a bellwether for attitudes to migration and refugee policies across Europe.

The ECJ gave a joined judgment in the cases of two women, in France and Belgium, who were dismissed for refusing to remove headscarves.

The Belgian court had referred the case to the EU's top court for clarification.

"An internal rule of an undertaking which prohibits the visible wearing of any political, philosophical or religious sign does not constitute direct discrimination," the Court said in a statement to the Telegraph.

"However, in the absence of such a rule, the willingness of an employer to take account of the wishes of a customer no longer to have the employer's services provided by a worker wearing an Islamic headscarf cannot be considered an occupational requirement that could rule out discrimination."

Good.

/10char.

[Deleted]

But...muh social justice!

[Deleted]

Around 0,001% of muslim woman wear burquas outside home.

So lets summarize that around 100 woman in europe have to get rid of their office burqua.

What a big win for the right wing!

[Mehrunes]

They can't make "whatever fucking dress code" they want, if they couldn't then there wouldn't have been any cases to decide that in Europe now would there? What a stupid thing to say...

But... the ruling just confirmed they can? Did you even read the article or did you just skim through it and then went on hurrdurring about how this law somehow discriminates against Muslims?

[The Stormbringer]

#TeamNegan uh, YES.

I mean, I only have one response to that...