Is Socialism inevitable?

[yetgdhfgh]

Is Socialism inevitable?

OK if it gets to a point where literally everything can be done by machines and human labour is no longer needed will that spell the end for Capitalism?

Surely Socialism is the end goal of where we are going as a species I mean go and see the civilization on Star Trek The Next Generation where nobody works for capital because machines can produce anything humans need and could ever want so they just work for the sake of bettering themselves.

The days of people working for pieces of paper and numbers on a computer screen must surely be numbered if we get to a point where everything we need can just be manufactured by machines and delivered to us (driverless cars?) or if replication technology ever becomes a thing.

When or where will it get to a point where socialism is the only solution because nobody has jobs cause of automation that makes capitalism viable?

[Wells]

People still work in socialized countries. That said, it probably offers a cleaner and healthier transition to a post-work world than free market capitalism.

[Moratori]

It's not inevitable. I think the elite in many countries would sooner fuck people lives over than let socialism be introduced on such a scale that it allowed people to live an okay life without worrying about their income.

[Wells]

It's not inevitable. I think the elite in many countries would sooner fuck people lives over than let socialism be introduced on such a scale that it allowed people to live an okay life without worrying about their income.

At some point all that matters is that the 1% is literally only 1%.

[elaina]

Just to be clear, you are using Star Trek: The Next Generation as your basis for deriving the ideal end point of society?

[yetgdhfgh]

Just to be clear, you are using Star Trek: The Next Generation as your basis for deriving the ideal end point of society?

But isnt that where we are going? and should be going?

THere will be a point where automation can make things so cheap but noone has jobs to buy it. So either everyone starves and what they build just rots or the government just gives it to them IE socialism.

[Deleted]

It will be the post-shortage era like Star Trek, but it will still be "capitalism" artists, teacher, inventors administrators, doctors etc will still be required. Maybe you work for "citizens credits" it cost X to visit the real Egyptian pyramids otherwise you have to be satisfied with a replica-copy or a 3D simulation.

[Wells]

But isnt that where we are going?

THere will be a point where automation can make things so cheap but noone has jobs to buy it? So either everyone starves and what they build just rots or the government just gives it to then IE socialism.

Its important to separate jobs from tasks necessary to sustain living. We'll basically always have jobs, its in our nature. But yeah, the amount of work that it will take to stay alive will keep dropping. Eventually that causes market issues.

[LilSaihah]

THere will be a point where automation can make things so cheap but noone has jobs to buy it? So either everyone starves and what they build just rots or the government just gives it to then IE socialism.

You're assuming people can't grow their own food.

[Wells]

You're assuming people can't grow their own food.

Dense urban populations can't, no. So unless we're talking about deindustrializing, which would suck, they can't.

[Endus]

But isnt that where we are going?

THere will be a point where automation can make things so cheap but noone has jobs to buy it? So either everyone starves and what they build just rots or the government just gives it to then IE socialism.

Or the boost in productivity that large-scale automation provides is so enriching that owning the means of production becomes economically meaningless in the first place, as a first step towards a post-scarcity society.

Or we get angry about something (potatoes, haircuts, whatever) and bomb ourselves back to the iron age, and all this becomes fodder for the next 10,000 years of mythology.

Socialism is a concept that isn't "inevitable", and isn't an "end point", anyway. We'll develop beyond the need for that kind of management at some point.

[Nadiru]

Is Socialism inevitable?

OK if it gets to a point where literally everything can be done by machines and human labour is no longer needed will that spell the end for Capitalism?

Surely Socialism is the end goal of where we are going as a species I mean go and see the civilization on Star Trek The Next Generation where nobody works for capital because machines can produce anything humans need and could ever want so they just work for the sake of bettering themselves.

The days of people working for pieces of paper and numbers on a computer screen must surely be numbered if we get to a point where everything we need can just be manufactured by machines and delivered to us (driverless cars?) or if replication technology ever becomes a thing.

When or where will it get to a point where socialism is the only solution because nobody has jobs cause of automation that makes capitalism obsolete?

Depends on several different things, not least of which being whether these fully automated means of production are expensive or cheap and big or small.

[Matchles]

No, no economic or social system is inevitable. There is no guarantee that we work towards what you may see as a better society. There are millions of factors that come into play. Can the powerful curb their greed to give way for empathy towards those around them? Will we support high education standards so the masses don't elect another snake oil salesman that doesn't give two shits about them? Do we tax automation at a level that makes it infeasible to make the switch away from workers? etc. etc. etc.

[Wells]

Socialism is a concept that isn't "inevitable", and isn't an "end point", anyway.

No end point but extinction.

[Elegiac]

No end point but extinction.

Here's hoping.

[Xar226]

Is Socialism inevitable?

OK if it gets to a point where literally everything can be done by machines and human labour is no longer needed will that spell the end for Capitalism?

Everything? No, probably not. But there will come a time, and we are approaching it more and more each day, when the necessity of human labor is minimal. We will need to revamp our expectations appropriately, and it will require very strong social programs (or a complete revamping of what our concept of "work" is) to get through.

[schwarzkopf]

Fun Fact OP - Socialism and Capitalism together form a coherent and stable society, it is only either extreme (extreme Socialism -> Communism and extreme Capitalism -> Fascism) that cause problems.

The US right now is at a cross roads, either to follow Trump et al into fascism, or pull back into a rationalist centre involving socialism as a moderating influence on capitalist ideals.

[Baconeggcheese]

We already supposedly have automation looking like its going to get rid of 30-45% of the workforces jobs well before I'll reach retirement age. Somethings bout to be inevitable if automation goes down as people are predicting.

[Matchles]

No end point but extinction.

Says you, I'm waiting to be uploaded or whatever to the Cosmic AC.

[Wells]

Socialism is employed all over the world now. All government impose taxes and offer some services for free. It's the extent of socialism that you might wanna discuss perhaps.

That's not really socialism. Hell, feudalism did that. Every government takes money and does a thing in exchange.