Are guilds all over collapsing or am I just seeing a lot of bad luck?

[Deleted]

Not everyone is a die hard neckbeard that plays/raids a full xpac cycle non stop. Personally i lose interest in (scheduled) raiding when cleared the current tier on HC and got a certain gear level where upgrades would become quite rare or very lucky. I assume many players handle it this way and obviously most guilds are pure raiding communities. no raid no guild. personally i join a guild to raid and when i take a break i either gquit by myself or i get kicked because of inactivity. That's how it goes.

[Aggrophobic]

People are starting to leave at this point so yes, guilds are "collapsing".
Add the fact that you don't really need guilds for much in WoW anymore except for maybe mythic raiding but Blizzard has more or less given up on that part of the game so guilds don't really have any actual function.

[Kynario]

My guild is thriving in Legion more than it did in Warlords of Draenor, Mists of Pandaria and the end of Cataclysm. :-)

[Vaelorian]

Guilds on Aggramar / hellscream EU is pretty decent atm, loads better than WoD and MoP, as far as I can tell.

Without trying to dis you... Aggy was already a bad server when TBC came. So the few remaining guilds with the remaining populace seem safe... but the server is crap.

[Deleted]

It is but on the bright side it's starting to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I play on Sargeras which is huge on Raiding and so many guilds have disbanded to form newer guilds taking their best and trying to reform into a more serious guild to clear Mythic. It has been nice seeing more GMs crack down on subpar raiders and Nighthold is a great raid for showcasing the difference between gear checks and mechanical competence checks.

It may seem pretty shitty from the average POV but honestly I don't mind the direction WoW is taking atm. It's rewarding to be a good raider and much more punishing to be a bad one. Seems pretty simple. People wanted Mythic to be harder when EN seemed to easy and now that it is people are starting to second guess that thought. That coupled with the near mandatory "out of raid" content makes the game much more enjoyable for someone like me that invests a lot of time trying to improve myself and my character. For me this is great.

Burnout is natural. It always happens. It's for the best that we at least take what we're given and make something better out of it.

How is being a good raider in any way rewarding? Only having 1-2 bad players in your raid is enough to wipe you on some mechanics - so being a good raider is worth nothing unless you're surrounded with exclusively good raiders. And then if you have your 20 good players, spent your time farming AP, good legys and consumables and down your mythic boss you can go ahead and disenchant most of the gear you got, because everybody got better gear from their heroic or m+ farm runs.
Everything you can get out of raiding mythic nighthold is a few achievements, maybe some small upgrades if you're lucky, pushing your leggo chances, AP and a subjectively pretty mediocre mount.

And besides how is a huge amount of mythic guilds disbanding a good thing? It just enforces the argument the scrubs have been making the past few years, that mythic raiding is not worth the development time since participation is low. There have been great raids before, that didn't fuck over a huge amount of mythic guilds. You don't have to be able to clear a raid in a few weeks on mythic difficulty to be worthy of raiding mythic.

[caervek]

It is but on the bright side it's starting to separate the wheat from the chaff.

People have been saying this since the start of WoD, how much does the raiding scene need to die before people admit there's a problem?...

[kamuimac]

People have been saying this since the start of WoD, how much does the raiding scene need to die before people admit there's a problem?...

the problem with raiding scene existed since vanilla - and it was always the same - that only5-10 % of playerbase wanted to raid - the pinacle of proof of that was in WoD when there was literaly nothing to do but raid and people still did not want to do so , numbers did not go up

the problem with raiding was its own existence - people do not want to do large group content - simple as that. 5-10 man is ideal format for 99 % and such should be the content in game - 20 man raids are old obsolete dinosaurs that simply refuses to die like they are destined to.

[TheVaryag]

I've joined a couple different guilds, alliance and horde, since Legion launch and they all started out strong but have collapsed to the point of raiding not just slowing down but actually brought to a halt because nobody wants the pugs to outnumber the actual guild members. It starts with losing one or two key raiders and then the guild seems to fall in on itself from there as these key players tend to be the main "initiators" (people who are actually willing to raid lead, play tank/heal/support, get people flasks and food, go on recruiting sprees, etc.) Occasionally they will bounce back but then start bleeding people again which only gets worse the more people see "oh, it's a dead guild" and wise up and leave.

I talk to friends about the state of the game and they all say the guilds they're in are dead too. It seems that unless you're willing to constantly drop guilds to go find a more active one, "dead guild" is just the default constant? Or am I just in a weird microcosm where me and everyone I know happen to be dealing with this at the same time?

Imean are you surprised? After nearly 7 months, surely people realized this Is a giant, giant time dump and waste? With gear, artifact power (Namely this) being grinded out alot and a lot, If you wanted to just join In the middle right now Ish, not only you'd find very few guilds that still "Casually" raid, whatever that means, you'd be out of luck. Cause not only there's not many of them anymore, but they'd all want you to run Maw of Souls to keep grinding Artifact Power, as well as just spam World Quests, dungeons and possibly LFR for Artifact Power just so you could complete with the other guilds, or just be able to take down that Heroic/Mythic boss.

Oh and lets not forget Legendaries, If you haven't had a good RNG drop of a legendary you'll just be useless to the raid and all your gear and AP grinding was for naught. Great new expansion we have, huh? Very friendly to new players, just as Blizzard claimed! /sarcasm

For the most casual of the casual expansions, this expansion Isn't easy to get Into In the middle. And I'm not even mentioning Artifact knowledge that you just can't speed up, you -have- to wait 2+ months to get 25 Artifact Knowledge to even get a good amount of AP. And then you realized the guild doesn't need a Survival Hunter, but needs you to be ranged.... well fudge, guess you'll have to grind even more AP to put Into your Marksman/Beastmaster weapon.

[caervek]

the problem with raiding scene existed since vanilla - and it was always the same

Oh nonono, it fell of a damn cliff in WoD, the death of 10m mythic resulted in the amount of players participating in Mythic shrinking by ~66% over the course of the expansion (by contrast the player base shrank ~33% while hemorrhaging subs) and the trickle down effects were felt throughout the raiding scene. All the work done by TBC/WotLK/etc to build up the scene was effectively shattered in one expansion and it's only gotten worse since.

[Kokolums]

Guild leaders dont know how to recruit. Do NOT recruit for the best geared, the top dps, etc. instead, recruit players with a passion for the game. Passion cannot be taught. You can take a mediocre dps tank or healer that loves the game and coach them up to be good. (And if you cant, you shouldnt be guild leader). You can NOT take a top dps tank or healer who is impatient & teach them to be patient and love the game.

[bufferunderrun]

Don't know what that has to do with anything. The number of people starting to raid seems to be far lower than the number of people quitting raiding at the moment. It's almost impossible to maintain a medium level mythic guild, while also maintaining decent player quality.
I raided in TBC and for a few months in Vanilla. And while it seemed like a pain in the ass to build up a guild - trying to find good players was never as much of an issue as it is now.

because mythic is insanely more difficult in both execution and preparation than it was back then, the problem is that nowadays everyone and it's dog think that raid=mythic, it's like back then everyone considered raiding only being in world first guilds.
So to many peoples think they can start a mythic raiding guild and obviously fail like back then nearly all the dreamers who tough they could build a guild who could go and clear t6 with little effort.

[PraisCthulhu]

You do equivalent content to someone solo queuing into pugs casually. There is nothing about your story that is a success, it is a status quo.

OP didn't say anything about what difficulty he wanted to clear, just asked if guilds were all dead. My guild is actively growing.

[IceMan1763]

I did also raid back in the day and let me tell i was a noob!!! Old raids did not require much skill just pain numbers. The bosses most of them looked like a dummy. Tank and spank. Get 40 persons online that stay out of the fire and spamm buttons = Boss dead. For that you needed to farm gear.

I'm not sure how far "back in the day" was, but I raided extensively and at a high level in both Wrath and Cata and especially Cata 25 man heroic content was mechanically both very demanding and complex. Wrath had fights that were also very difficult in that regard.

This story that the playerbase is so much more skilled now and the raids so much harder mechanics wise is just a story... a fairy tale current day players tell to boost their self esteem. Mythic raiding now is all about crazy amount of required time investment outside of the raid. The mechanics are the same or possibly even easier than they were in Cata.

[TOM_RUS]

Yes.

10 chars

[Teri]

My server is shrinking, not growing.

[healzforu]

I didn't read the entire thread but in case it was not said, my guild broke up prior to NH coming out, we were almost at the end to full clear of M EN, anyhow people stopped showing up and we got to the point of where we could not really make the 20 man and decided to break up, alot of us me included just decided to quit the game, not because i started to hate it but because of the demanding schedule raiding requires to clear relevant mythic content. Honestly, when i get home from work, i really don't feel like raiding 3-4 hours, i just want to come home and relax, so im actually happy the guild broke up. I thought about going somewhere else, as i did have offers but decided it's just a great time to step away and if i decide to play again, i highly doubt i will raid. Im one who will not raid to clear normal/heroic content, it's boring as hell, if im gonna raid, it's to clear the most difficult tier and i just don't have the time anymore, people get older and have much more responsibility now and im sure it's a big reason for the guild decline.

[Kazuchika]

A friend and I did a little experiment and took note of a bunch of 3/10M guilds that were recruiting on our server about a month ago and decided last night to check on them.

Out of the 35 guilds at that time we wrote down only 6 of them have had a new progression kill in that month, 7 of them have stopped raiding entirely and the funniest part is TEN of them have disbanded completely. Hell I joined a guild that had been around since MoP and two weeks after we had a bad progress night, logged in the next morning and the guild was gone. The volatility in guilds Blizz has created by making EN a joke and Nighthold a series of brick walls is astounding.

Reminds me of when Siege got nerfed for a good part of the end of MoP and it created all these "mythic raiders" who couldn't handle Highmaul or BRF and called it quits.

[Deleted]

This, also there aso SO MANY GUILD AROUND!
There are more guilds then players

Yeah, everyone and their mother has their own guild. No wonder why so many guilds struggle to fill their ranks. But most of them are either inactive or collapse shortly.


A good way to look at it is to look how old a guild is. The older a guild and the more stable the leadership, the less risk is there that the guild will implode/collapse.

[Brewhan]

I think a lot of guilds are collapsing after the initial hype of legion is dying out. 7.2 might bring back some hype with new stuff to do but its a lot more grinding of the same broken shore style stuff/ grinding shards to get items/ try out the new dungeon/ try out M+ kara etc. It will be exciting for maybe 2-3 weeks then will be getting old again. I'm guessing the raid is 8-10+ weeks away after 7.2 is live so thats still a lot of wait time for people.

Legion is pretty good don't get me wrong but myself and a lot of other people I played with during the first 3 months are just bored and over it. They enjoyed grinding for x amount of time then not having to worry about more grinding until raid login. Now you always need to be pushing something and actvities to keep up to daily with on your main. Which is good for a MMORPG but in WoD it was the exact opposite so its hard for people to not feel lazy thanks to wod.

It's like damn this is a lot of work just so i can actually get to the endgame raiding I do enjoy.. might as well just log out and go launch up overwatch/<insert moba>/ <insert single player RPG/ARPG >/ instead and get some quick 15-30minutes of enjoyment. Instead of needing to do 1hr+ of chores just so i can maybe enjoy something OR maybe not because RNG will give me no loot but AP which doesn't feel as rewarding more like a thank goodness finally feel..

[Anjerith]

Asking on this forums is going to result in you getting only skewed answers about the 'Death of WoW'. People get older and age out of MMO's because they either a) now have real life responsibilities. or b) their leadership has had enough crossing real life responsibility with the huge responsibility of running a guild and the leeches left over cannot manage them.