Laziness isn’t why people are poor

[PosPosPos]

It's pretty easy to convince them to work for money, in order to pay for the things they want.

If you want to convince people to give up their autonomy willingly, I wish you the best of luck. I'm going to be going to the oppressive megacorp later to pick up some milk and bread, did you need anything?

That's simple, just make sure to have a monopoly on food and clean water, and put a price tag on them, being that of bodily autonomy of the buyer. Then the masses can have the freedom to choose, either to die, or to survive.

Capitalism 101.

[Machismo]

That's simple, just make sure to have a monopoly on food and clean water, and put a price tag on them, being that of bodily autonomy of the buyer. Then the masses can have the freedom to choose, either to die, or to survive.

Capitalism 101.

And can you show me where such monopolies exist? If you'll notice, the government will be the ones pushing the monopolies, mainly on utilities. Once again, you are arguing against yourself. The very entity that you want to protect you from the evil guys, is the one actually making it possible.

The last time I checked, there's plenty of places to buy food.

[PosPosPos]

And can you show me where such monopolies exist? If you'll notice, the government will be the ones pushing the monopolies, mainly on utilities. Once again, you are arguing against yourself. The very entity that you want to protect you from the evil guys, is the one actually making it possible.

The last time I checked, there's plenty of places to buy food.

That's why I agree we need the current government out of the way in order to put this into action.

Revolution!

[Machismo]

That's why I agree we need the current government out of the way in order to put this into action.

Revolution!

You are whining about monopolies, but what monopolies are you talking about? You clearly have an issue with capitalism and free markets, yet the one constant in the problem you bring up... is government itself. You are literally asking for the cause of your problem to hopefully become your salvation.

I'm sorry that you think supermarkets are such oppressive entities. I'm happy to know you grow all your food on your own farm.

[PosPosPos]

You are whining about monopolies, but what monopolies are you talking about? You clearly have an issue with capitalism and free markets, yet the one constant in the problem you bring up... is government itself. You are literally asking for the cause of your problem to hopefully become your salvation.

I'm sorry that you think supermarkets are such oppressive entities. I'm happy to know you grow all your food on your own farm.

Huh? I think you are quoting the wrong person here.

[Machismo]

Huh? I think you are quoting the wrong person here.

Nope, I'm quoting your crazy ass, who thinks that supermarkets are oppressive megacorps that force people into buying their products.

How dare they sell a product people need, then expect to be paid for it... the fucking outrage.

[PosPosPos]

Nope, I'm quoting your crazy ass, who thinks that supermarkets are oppressive megacorps that force people into buying their products.

How dare they sell a product people need, then expect to be paid for it... the fucking outrage.

Could you then point out which part I said it? Because unless your claim is that I have schizophrenia, I have never said something like that.

[kamuimac]

Some people will now be thinking "But wait, life isn't easy for me either, but I managed!" Well good for you, but you don't know that it isn't even harder for someone else. Have some empathy, stop punching down, literally who even are you to pass judgement on somebody else's situation?

it may be - but its really lazy excuse - people who are homeless are usually homeless by choice - there is so much work out there to be found that i find it ridiculous that someone tells me that he is homelsss because rich people are douchebags

if you are poor then instead renting whole apartment just rent 1 room from someone - and then work your way up by saving $ from rent , if you are poor use public transportation not a car , if you are poor try to change you situation instead waiting till someone else does it for you.

and about what people were joking about slavery above - in ancient rome/greece a lot of slaves were not vicitims of war etc but regular people who choose slavery in return of roof over their head , food and purpose in life. so its not an entirely new concept.

[PosPosPos]

and about what people were joking about slavery above - in ancient rome/greece a lot of slaves were not vicitims of war etc but regular people who choose slavery in return of roof over their head , food and purpose in life. so its not an entirely new concept.

It's not a joke, it's what's best for society.

And yes I agree, what's so bad about slavery if it brings food, water, shelter and purpose to people's lives?

[Machismo]

Could you then point out which part I said it? Because unless your claim is that I have schizophrenia, I have never said something like that.

You were whining about monopolies forming to sell food and water, and that they would charge people for such necessities.

That's what supermarkets are for.

You are whining that these people are being oppressed by banks who loan them money... but they are doing something of their own volition. If you don't think people should have to pay their loans back, clearly you don't think they should have to pay for any food they take from a supermarket. After all, they need that shit. Your entire argument is about how oppressive banks and megacorps are, and how they are screwing over others, as if the people didn't knowingly jump into the arrangement. Jesus, Christ, take some responsibility for your actions.

[PosPosPos]

You were whining about monopolies forming to sell food and water, and that they would charge people for such necessities.

That's what supermarkets are for.

You are whining that these people are being oppressed by banks who loan them money... but they are doing something of their own volition. If you don't think people should have to pay their loans back, clearly you don't think they should have to pay for any food they take from a supermarket. After all, they need that shit. Your entire argument is about how oppressive banks and megacorps are, and how they are screwing over others, as if the people didn't knowingly jump into the arrangement. Jesus, Christ, take some responsibility for your actions.

Umm, I didn't?

I sincerely request evidence in the form of the appropriate and relevant quote(s), because I can't for my life figure out when I said something as horrid as that.

[socanyou]

saying "the system is rigged" doesn't actually mean anything, and the consequence to being lazy throughout a lifetime can be poverty. most people with the tough-love approach don't really think everyone poor is relatively lazy or dumb in proportion to their wealth, but they will not make it easier to be lazy.

[Machismo]

Umm, I didn't?

I sincerely request evidence in the form of the appropriate and relevant quote, because I can't for my life figure out when I said something as horrid as that.

"That's simple, just make sure to have a monopoly on food and clean water, and put a price tag on them, being that of bodily autonomy of the buyer. Then the masses can have the freedom to choose, either to die, or to survive.

Capitalism 101."

Your whining about a dystopia where people are forced to pay for the things they need... is a fucking supermarket.

You act as if the people who willingly choose to take out these loans, then purposefully choose to not pay them back, are the victims. That's simply not the case. They are the ones not holding up their end of the agreement.

[Deleted]

Itt: people with little to no experience of real poverty moralising to justify their own circumstances.

I mean seriously if you have any direct experience of what it's like for a person to actually live in poverty, it would take a total empathy bypass to call it laziness. Generally, laziness would imply taking the path of least resistance, which would seem at odds with the fact that it's a whole lot easier to feed yourself, keep a roof over your head and afford the luxuries that you want while you're holding down a paying job. For myself and many others, that's not a problem, but now try to imagine that you can't. Let me be clear here, I'm not saying that keeping a job is hard, or stressful, or a whole lot of effort, but that something, be that mental or physical, makes that a near impossible task for some people. Now add to that the fact that much of your time is spent scraping together the funds to pay your rent, buy food, look after yourself (again, harder for some than others and not for lack of trying), as well as look for and keep a job, possibly a pretty awful one in a lot of cases. If it all goes wrong, you might not even have a support network to fall back on.

When most of life's tasks are fundamentally more difficult for you than they are for others, it's easier to fail, and the stresses of performing well are amplified. The last thing that person can afford to do is sit back and chill, because then you don't eat, and you end up homeless. When everything is harder for someone else than it is for you, "just do it better, or harder" is genuinely terrible advice.

Some people will now be thinking "But wait, life isn't easy for me either, but I managed!" Well good for you, but you don't know that it isn't even harder for someone else. Have some empathy, stop punching down, literally who even are you to pass judgement on somebody else's situation?

Ultimately "Why not just be normal, be able to hold down a job and deal with all of your responsibilities effectively, instead of being poor and lazy" is a ridiculously obtuse thing to say, and it can only come from a place where you just fundamentally have no undestanding of or willingness to understand how somebody could be less capable than you. I guarantee that if you have a good job and a good income, that your problems don't even touch those of someone without those things. Don't be dicks. Plz.

So answer this then:
Why should I support you with my money? You can do whatever you want, but give me a good reason why the welfare state takes my money and gives it to you.

[Lady Dragonheart]

I don't know about that. I'd have to disagree. Some of the most wealthy people that I know are extraordinarily lazy and it's mostly because of that laziness that they managed to end up that way. They weren't all about hard work, but an ingenuity to avoid as much work as possible to get the same, if not better, results while setting aside moral concepts to gain whatever edge they could for less work involved.

[PosPosPos]

"That's simple, just make sure to have a monopoly on food and clean water, and put a price tag on them, being that of bodily autonomy of the buyer. Then the masses can have the freedom to choose, either to die, or to survive.

Capitalism 101."

Your whining about a dystopia where people are forced to pay for the things they need... is a fucking supermarket.

You act as if the people who willingly choose to take out these loans, then purposefully choose to not pay them back, are the victims. That's simply not the case. They are the ones not holding up their end of the agreement.

Generally, "whining" involves vocally disagreeing with something, but I cannot for my life see in which part of that quote involves me vocally disagreeing with...whatever it is you created to defame my character.

All I did was to propose a recourse for your concern that it would take luck to get people to sign away their freedoms.

You wound me.

[Machismo]

Generally, "whining" involves vocally disagreeing with something, but I cannot for my life see in which part of that quote involves me vocally disagreeing with...whatever it is you created to defame my character.

All I did was to propose a recourse for your concern that it would take luck to get people to sign away their freedoms.

You wound me.

You were whining about the possibility of megacorps monopolizing food and water, and selling it to people. I simply demonstrated how capitalism already took care of that for you. The thing you are so terrified of, is a supermarket.

The exact same principle is applied towards banks and loans to students. You wouldn't expect a supermarket to give away food to everyone, so why expect a bank to do the same thing when people don't pay for loans?

[Machismo]

Well if you don't have any empathy at all, a moral argument won't help you, so how about this: poverty causes a number of things, including homlessness, illness, drug addiction and crime. It costs us less overall to provide people with a basic standard of living than it does to pay for medical bills, policing, social care and so on. It's not like the costs don't get passed on somewhere else when you stop paying for welfare.

It costs us even less to do nothing at all.

[PosPosPos]

You were whining about the possibility of megacorps monopolizing food and water, and selling it to people. I simply demonstrated how capitalism already took care of that for you. The thing you are so terrified of, is a supermarket.

The exact same principle is applied towards banks and loans to students. You wouldn't expect a supermarket to give away food to everyone, so why expect a bank to do the same thing when people don't pay for loans?

But I didn't. And I asked you multiple times to support your assertion that I am whining about your attempt to defame my character, but all you can do is prove that I have made statements holding meanings completely contrary, or unrelated to your spurious claims. Since you are unable to prove your defamatory claims, then sadly I have to dismiss them as such.

[Deleted]

Well if you don't have any empathy at all, a moral argument won't help you, so how about this: poverty causes a number of things, including homlessness, illness, drug addiction and crime. It costs us less overall to provide people with a basic standard of living than it does to pay for medical bills, policing, social care and so on. It's not like the costs don't get passed on somewhere else when you stop paying for welfare.

I don't have empathy for people LEECHING my money.
You talked about illness before.
Lack of motivation isn't mental illness, sorry.
If there was no welfare state and you would be forced to work, for your own survival, you WOULD work. Life is not easy, honey. Most people do stressful work for the entirety of their lives. And they managed, humanity survived, we're still here.

With no welfare state, and by that I mean a state supporting lazy people, who don't want to work for various reasons, your homelessness, drug addiction and crime would cost us exactly nothing, as we can deal with criminals easily.