Sin in 7.2: vigor vs. deeper stratagem?

[blazeiam]

Any sims on which talent will be better?

[Deleted]

Not seen any Sims but casual theorycrafting tells 7.2 favour high amount of finichers due to enevenom buff affected KB and synergy with the new gold trait. Also poison Vial is direkt affected by the amount of 4+ finichers you land. I would say vigour is the winner

[blazeiam]

Not to disagree with you but with the slight nerf to urge to kill the only benefit to vigor is 10% energy regen vs 5% finish damage. I could be wrong but my thought process is that the 5% finisher damage would be better.

[Korkk]

They're removing the RPPM nature of poison bomb, so the more finishers you can pump out, the more poison bombs you'll get.

[Deleted]

Not to disagree with you but with the slight nerf to urge to kill the only benefit to vigor is 10% energy regen vs 5% finish damage. I could be wrong but my thought process is that the 5% finisher damage would be better.

Well for ppl who have the shoulders the bigger energy pool mean you get to pump out more finisher if you pool 5cp and full energy before vanish. Aka more bombs. Also the 10% energy regain is worth a lot, especially in dungeons when you don't run AP and have even higher energy regain

[shaunika123]

Well for ppl who have the shoulders the bigger energy pool mean you get to pump out more finisher if you pool 5cp and full energy before vanish. Aka more bombs. Also the 10% energy regain is worth a lot, especially in dungeons when you don't run AP and have even higher energy regain

i doubt the shoulders wil stay bis once we lose the setbonus and get the new kingsbane+garrote traits tho.

however, even for bracers i believe vigor will be better

with more energy regen you have higher uptime on SoT, it also gives higher uptime on kingsbane (due to new traits KB scales with poison procs and more ER= more abilities=more procs and more ER= higher envenom uptime=more procs)
all DS gives is 5% extra finisher dmg (since their dmg scales lineary with CPs so it matters not how many cps you cast it with aside from SoT)
I'd wager 10% more energy regen outweights 5% damage, as well as provides a smoother opener.

the gap might be smaller but vigor will still win out i believe

unless alacrity becomes "the" build, in which case DS might be better since alacrity gives enough energy regen anyway.

[DakonBlackblade]

i doubt the shoulders wil stay bis once we lose the setbonus and get the new kingsbane+garrote traits tho.

however, even for bracers i believe vigor will be better

with more energy regen you have higher uptime on SoT, it also gives higher uptime on kingsbane (due to new traits KB scales with poison procs and more ER= more abilities=more procs and more ER= higher envenom uptime=more procs)
all DS gives is 5% extra finisher dmg (since their dmg scales lineary with CPs so it matters not how many cps you cast it with aside from SoT)
I'd wager 10% more energy regen outweights 5% damage, as well as provides a smoother opener.

the gap might be smaller but vigor will still win out i believe

unless alacrity becomes "the" build, in which case DS might be better since alacrity gives enough energy regen anyway.

I realy hope Alacricity wins, Id love nothing more than to play with Deadly Poison on 24/7 and be done with AP forever.

[Crookids]

I realy hope Alacricity wins, Id love nothing more than to play with Deadly Poison on 24/7 and be done with AP forever.

This x 1000

[Eazy]

Not going to lie, AP is strong, but it's kinda irritating changing poisons between bosses and trash everytime in M+.

If Alacrity was better in ST/Cleave/AoE then I'd gladly accept that.

I wonder if haste will be much better next patch, considering that we're going to get trait that reduces KB cd whenever we apply lethal-poison.
Faster attacks = less CD.

[Bart76]

i doubt the shoulders wil stay bis once we lose the setbonus and get the new kingsbane+garrote traits tho.

however, even for bracers i believe vigor will be better

with more energy regen you have higher uptime on SoT, it also gives higher uptime on kingsbane (due to new traits KB scales with poison procs and more ER= more abilities=more procs and more ER= higher envenom uptime=more procs)
all DS gives is 5% extra finisher dmg (since their dmg scales lineary with CPs so it matters not how many cps you cast it with aside from SoT)
I'd wager 10% more energy regen outweights 5% damage, as well as provides a smoother opener.

the gap might be smaller but vigor will still win out i believe

unless alacrity becomes "the" build, in which case DS might be better since alacrity gives enough energy regen anyway.

And how exactly does Alacrity increase our ER? Unless I missed something haste does not affect our dots neither our CDs. I think you're mixing up assa with outlaw

[Deleted]

And how exactly does Alacrity increase our ER? Unless I missed something haste does not affect our dots neither our CDs. I think you're mixing up assa with outlaw

You have missed a vital part. Haste give a increased energy regain. More energy = more builders and more finsihers & enevenom buff = more poison applications = more KB uptime in 7.2.

[shaunika123]

And how exactly does Alacrity increase our ER? Unless I missed something haste does not affect our dots neither our CDs. I think you're mixing up assa with outlaw

I think you're mixing up being informed with being ignorant and yet self assured :P

[elfporn]

You have missed a vital part. Haste give a increased energy regain. More energy = more builders and more finsihers & enevenom buff = more poison applications = more KB uptime in 7.2.

Don't forget more poison bombs.

[Bart76]

You have missed a vital part. Haste give a increased energy regain. More energy = more builders and more finsihers & enevenom buff = more poison applications = more KB uptime in 7.2.

There is only one small fact you are ignoring, haste is our very worst stat and in order to gain a significant amount of ER with alacrity you need lots of haste on the gear which is a dps loss.

Maybe with the new golden trait haste will gain some value thought, we'll have to wait and see I guess.

[elfporn]

There is only one small fact you are ignoring, haste is our very worst stat and in order to gain a significant amount of ER with alacrity you need lots of haste on the gear which is a dps loss.

Maybe with the new golden trait haste will gain some value thought, we'll have to wait and see I guess.

The new golden trait increases the value of haste significantly. That's what we're saying.

10% haste = 1 eps.

[Halobob87]

We are NOT going to stack haste in 7.2.
For AP haste is bad and will stay shit even with the new golden.

[elfporn]

We are NOT going to stack haste in 7.2.

of course not. But it probably won't be avoided like the plague.

[Halobob87]

of course not. But it probably won't be avoided like the plague.

For AP, it will still be our worst stat by a fair margin.

[shaunika123]

There is only one small fact you are ignoring, haste is our very worst stat and in order to gain a significant amount of ER with alacrity you need lots of haste on the gear which is a dps loss.

Maybe with the new golden trait haste will gain some value thought, we'll have to wait and see I guess.

what are you even talking about? alacrity is a flat 20% haste

it doesnt matter how much haste you got it has the same value
in fact the less you have the more value it has technically

also with a DP build and the new KB trait haste's value goes up a bit

[elfporn]

what are you even talking about? alacrity is a flat 20% haste

it doesnt matter how much haste you got it has the same value
in fact the less you have the more value it has technically

also with a DP build and the new KB trait haste's value goes up a bit

i just hope a DP build pulls ahead or atleast even, i much prefer the versatility it provides. And i don't like AP from a design perspective.