Trump says US will act alone on North Korea if China fails to help

[Zeta333]

Sounds like the same bullshit people used after they couldn't claim that Iraq has WMD's.

just replace everything NK with Iraq and SK/Japan with Israel and you have the same justification.

except north korea does have WMDs

[Artaxerxes]

The only thing China has on Japan currently is a nuclear arsenal, they aren't stupid enough to use it. The world wouldn't tolerate an economic power declaring war on another economic power. It would be a world war. No one wants North Korea around except China.

You also seem to be confused, North Korea was a product of the Soviets not the Chinese, that didn't happen until the Korean war in which both countries assisted in. The Chinese reinforced the North Koreans with ground forces when the UN drove them back and the Soviets were involved in air defense and supply.

No one except China? You do realise relative to China its neighbouring countries are ' no one' right? its like cockroaches saying the elephants opinion doesn't matter when all the elephant has to do is accidentally move.

And you seem to be the one that is confused since the Soviet Union collapsed in the previous century.

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North Korea poses no threat. You really think they'd attack us? We would literally wipe them off the face of the planet, and they know it.

But can you do the same to China without the world turning out like the Fallout computer game?

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

This isn't about self destruction, that would be attacking first, this is about going down with as much resistence and damage as possible, which I don't for a second believe North Korea would be unwilling to do.

And they don't HAVE to fire all that, yes even if much of it is outdated and probably not all working htey can still do massive damage to Souel with their artiliary alone, there's already a few 100k casualties and massive economic damage, and as for their nukes if they can even get ONE off into some major Japanese or South Korean City, that'd be potentially the single greatest modern humanitarian disaster.

You seriously underestimate how dangerous this road is.

You'll have to give a good reason why, other than "he is c-c-c-c-crazy!" .. you just keep saying "he would totally do it!"

But nothing historical or behavioral shows he would do this.

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No they just destroy their own people. How many times does North Korea have to say, touch us and we'll burn South Korea to the ground before people actually believe it? Also no dictator is in the position North Korea is in that I am aware of. The Korea War is still ongoing, while the rest of the world may not view it so much that way, I'm wagering the North Koreans do.

Plenty of dictators COULD have just fired all their weapons at everyone they could, but I can't recall any of them every doing it.

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No, but a ground invasion would. Tanks roaming Seoul's streets will slow down the invasion into North Korea, giving the officials time to safely evacuate before it gets too hot.

I honestly don't know why A) You think NK would send tanks into Sk while they are being invaded and B) NK would be able to get them past a SK/US/Allies defense anyway.

[Kiri]

North Korea poses no threat. You really think they'd attack us? We would literally wipe them off the face of the planet, and they know it.

Not sure if you are in favour or against Trump's stance here.

On another note: is it even justifiable to make a first strike against a conscription-based military? Given that no one in N K has a choice in the matter, how to distinguish between civilians and civilians forced into a uniform?

[namecraft]

what's wrong with north korea

[Aori]

Not sure if you are in favour or against Trump's stance here.

On another note: is it even justifiable to make a first strike against a conscription-based military? Given that no one in N K has a choice in the matter, how to distinguish between civilians and civilians forced into a uniform?

Unfortunately North Korea has no civilians.

[Attackrabbit]

I explicitly said no assured destruction, just needless loss of life, pointing out the hypocrisy that some people would rather see South Koreans die for sure than maybe see Americans die.
I mean your argument is based on 'North Korea would not do something stupid like starting a needless war they cannot win'. On the other hand, attacking North Korea like proposed by Trump would be out of fear that one day they could start a needless war they cannot win by attacking the US. NK can't be as rational as to not attack SK when attacked by SK's allies and as irrational as randomly attacking a superpower just because they can at the same time.

Not the best of sources but check out Cracked's article on 'advertising war'. Fairly on the nose tbh on how these things are put to the public to encourage supporting conflicts.

[Aori]

No one except China? You do realise relative to China its neighbouring countries are ' no one' right? its like cockroaches saying the elephants opinion doesn't matter when all the elephant has to do is accidentally move.

And you seem to be the one that is confused since the Soviet Union collapsed in the previous century.

You were downplaying the Korean conflict, it wasn't just the Chinese involvement, it was the Soviets. If not for the Soviets there wouldn't have been a North Korea. You were trying to use the 1950s Korean War as some sort of example of how it would turn out again.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with the elephant analogy in relation to what I said. That said, its Neighbors include India, Pakistan and Russia, they are by no means small or insignificant.

[HumbleDuck]

US is in no way ready take on another Korean war.
Trump is genuinely trying to destroy US credibility.

[Aori]

US is in no way ready take on another Korean war.
Trump is genuinely trying to destroy US credibility.

It isn't the 1950s anymore.

[Deleted]

I don't think this would be some long drawn out war like Korea/Vietnam, depending on China. Technology is much different now.

It just wouldn't make sense for me to start punching the wall when you are coming at me with a knife. Could NK attack SK? Sure. But that doesn't mean this is some sort of assured destruction.

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Not sure this is correct. If ground forces were invading NK, missiles wouldn't make them turn around and suddenly stop.

try to think of south korea as your little brother or a good friend, not a wall. most people would think twice about attacking someone if they are holding a gun to one of those.

then in addition imagine that in the distance behind the guy you wanna attack you can see a huge ripped dude who has kept the guy you are attacking from being bullied in the past.

[Moadar]

North Korea is so open to being bombed it's not even funny. Their equipment is ancient and they are so poor they lack the ability to fuel or repair a lot of it. They don't even let pilots train in aircraft because of fuel costs. Their artillery positions are known and a surprise bombing would clean most of them up. I think it's funny people talk about the size of their military and forget that Iraqis was touted in the same way but was destroyed completely almost over night.

The same thing applies to China a large army doesn't mean anything when aircraft you can't target and ships off the coast are raining explosives on you. It's easy to kill people in the tens of thousands when you have air/naval superiority.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

try to think of south korea as your little brother or a good friend, not a wall. most people would think twice about attacking someone if they are holding a gun to one of those.

then in addition imagine that in the distance behind the guy you wanna attack you can see a huge ripped dude who has kept the guy you are attacking from being bullied in the past.

This is a good analogy. Now imagine, my little brother (SK) is being bullied, so while I'm attacking the bully, why would he then go to attack my little brother?

The ripped dude: maybe the ripped dude is tired of almost fighting me, and other people, because the bully he is constantly vouching for is getting really old. Oh, and if the ripped dude tries to start a fight, tons of other people will probably interfere too.

[Rend Blackhand]

Something has to be done.

North Korea will eventually be capable of launching nuclear stokes on the US and other countries and when that happens, it will be a thousand times harder to find a solution.

[Deleted]

North Korea is so open to being bombed it's not even funny. Their equipment is ancient and they are so poor they lack the ability to fuel or repair a lot of it. They don't even let pilots train in aircraft because of fuel costs. Their artillery positions are known and a surprise bombing would clean most of them up. I think it's funny people talk about the size of their military and forget that Iraqis was touted in the same way but was destroyed completely almost over night.

The same thing applies to China a large army doesn't mean anything when aircraft you can't target and ships off the coast are raining explosives on you. It's easy to kill people in the tens of thousands when you have air/naval superiority.

please tell me how you would destroy thousands of artillery pieces in a surprise bombing before most of them would be able to get a few shots off, which is what would be required to prevent massive damage to seoul.

an old gun still kills.

[HumbleDuck]

It isn't the 1950s anymore.

I see, Because only the wars in the 50s could be named after the nations involved ...?

[Deleted]

This is a good analogy. Now imagine, my little brother (SK) is being bullied, so while I'm attacking the bully, why would he then go to attack my little brother?

The ripped dude: maybe the ripped dude is tired of almost fighting me, and other people, because the bully he is constantly vouching for is getting really old. Oh, and if the ripped dude tries to start a fight, tons of other people will probably interfere too.

the bully knows he cannot beat you in a fight, so his only hope is that the realistic threat of putting your little brother in the hospital will keep you from going after him. If you do go after him, his only way to hurt you is to carry out the threat before he gets taken out.

the ripped dude is indeed harder to predict.

[Deleted]

he's gona build a wall round it.

[Self Inflicted Wounds]

the bully knows he cannot beat you in a fight, so his only hope is that the realistic threat of putting your little brother in the hospital will keep you from going after him. If you do go after him, his only way to hurt you is to carry out the threat before he gets taken out.

the ripped dude is indeed harder to predict.

I'm not sure how NK would get to my little brother while I beat the shit out of him.

[Deleted]

I'm not sure how NK would get to my little brother while I beat the shit out of him.

simple, they have thousands of artillery pointed at your little brothers primary population center, even if half of them only get one shot off, it'll be major damage. meanwhile he can see you coming from a literal ocean away.